string buzz Fret Buzz/High E Slippage on a New Guitar

[darling67]

Hey, People!

I am 100% sure there's a thread around here somewhere about this exact same topic, but here goes…

I got my new Epiphone 2020 SG Special a few days ago, and it's awesome. I see none of the QC and fit-and-finish issues that have plagued these guitars in reviews on youtube, etc. HOWEVER 😬…

There's quite a bit of fret buzz below the 5th fret on perhaps strings 1, 2, and 3… and the high E slips off the edge of the fretboard. I am not a Luthier, and the whole point of buying this guitar was to spend a lot of $$$. So, I'm not going to take it in for any work. Do you think this is something I can remedy myself?

• A new nut?
• Adjust the stop bar tailpiece?

 

I bought this from Sweetwater, and their guitars are supposedly put through a "55-point Inspection". So, not sure what they could have missed.

Thanks tons!

Edited March 15, 2020 by darling67

[rct]

Hello Darling, good to see you!

Yeah, you may be able to fix it with a well measured, well centered, well cut nut.  Fenderitis is the technical term for E string slippage at either side of the fingerboard, generally caused by misalignment of the nut with the bridge, usually caused by the neck joint being wonky and needing an adjustment.  On teles it was for years because the bridge was misaligned with the nut.

It doesn't happen that often at all on Gibsons and their derivatives, so you should be able to re-nut this and be fine.  Should.  Always possible something is slightly out of line, and over the length of the scale it becomes a big difference.  Get some pictures up here of the nut and a look down the scale length  and we'll help you out.

rct

[Sgt. Pepper]

10 minutes ago, darling67 said:

Hey, People!

I am 100% sure there's a thread around here somewhere about this exact same topic, but here goes…

I got my new Epiphone 2020 SG Special a few days ago, and it's awesome. I see none of the QC and fit-and-finish that have plagued these guitars in reviews on youtube, etc. HOWEVER 😬…

There's quite a bit of fret buzz below the 5th fret on perhaps strings 1, 2, and 3… and the high E slips off the edge of the fretboard. I am not a Luthier, and the whole point of buying this guitar was to spend a lot of $$$. So, I'm not going to take it in for any work. Do you think this is something I can remedy myself?

• A new nut?
• Adjust the stop bar tailpiece?

 

I bought this from Sweetwater, and their guitars are supposedly put through a "55-point Inspection". So, not sure what they could have missed.

Thanks tons!

In your second sentence you say its awesome.  You just got a brand new guitar and you think you need a new nut. Return it.  The truss rod may need a tweak, but the nut slippage is not acceptable.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[darling67]

4 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

In your second sentence you say its awesome. Is it awesome or not?

 

It's awesome save for this minor annoyance 😉. It looks great—not a cosmetic flaw to be found, and it sounds great plugged-in.

The string slippage has got to be an easy remedy. I recall I had a similar issue with another Epiphone (ES-339 P90) some years back, and I was able to fix it without taking it in. Can't recall WHAT I did though. 🤔

Sweetwater says it loaded with 10's.... but these feel lighter somehow—like 9's.

Edited March 15, 2020 by darling67

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 minute ago, darling67 said:

 

It's awesome save for this minor annoyance 😉. It looks great—not a cosmetic flaw to be found, and it sounds great plugged-in.

The string slippage has got to be an easy remedy. I recall I had a similar issue with another Epiphone (ES-339 P90) some years back, and I was able to fix it without taking it in. Can't recall WHAT I did though. 🤔

You may need to file the nut down a bit. Its easy if you have the tools.  If you go to far you will need a new nut or do the superglue trick. I got a little over zealous one day setting up my 12 string and took it to my luthier cause I'm not going near my guitar with super glue. I'll let a pro fix it for $30 or so.

[mihcmac]

3 hours ago, darling67 said:

There's quite a bit of fret buzz below the 5th fret on perhaps strings 1, 2, and 3… and the high E slips off the edge of the fretboard. I am not a Luthier, and the whole point of buying this guitar was to spend a lot of $$$. So, I'm not going to take it in for any work. Do you think this is something I can remedy myself?

• A new nut?
• Adjust the stop bar tailpiece?

There are a few 'un-boxing' episodes on youtube for new 2020 Epiphones mentioning fret buzz, sometimes after lowering the bridge to a good level,  frets needing to be dressed after the 5th fret going higher, in addition some were sent back to the seller.

Also the nut pinching the strings is not unusual, many new guitars require a very small amount of careful slot widening, but not deepening. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by mihcmac

[Sgt. Pepper]

You may need to rock the frets. That should help with the buzz.

[darling67]

4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

In your second sentence you say its awesome.  You just got a brand new guitar and you think you need a new nut. Return it.  The truss rod may need a tweak, but the nut slippage is not acceptable.

 

I hear you... but I really don't want to go through the hassle of shipping it back and waiting for a new one that might have a similar issue or a different one. I understood, going in, that a guitar at this price point might not be perfect. This is not too big a deal to me. If it's getting a new nut put in, I can live with that. I know a Luthier who helped me out with my Alvarez acoustic guitar that had string buzz.

Thanks for your honest perspective.

[darling67]

4 hours ago, rct said:

Hello Darling, good to see you!

Yeah, you may be able to fix it with a well measured, well centered, well cut nut.  Fenderitis is the technical term for E string slippage at either side of the fingerboard, generally caused by misalignment of the nut with the bridge, usually caused by the neck joint being wonky and needing an adjustment.  On teles it was for years because the bridge was misaligned with the nut.

It doesn't happen that often at all on Gibsons and their derivatives, so you should be able to re-nut this and be fine.  Should.  Always possible something is slightly out of line, and over the length of the scale it becomes a big difference.  Get some pictures up here of the nut and a look down the scale length  and we'll help you out.

rct

 

Now that you mention it, I think it was my Fender Tele that was suffering from string slippage. Again, I can't remember what I did to remedy it. It may have been something as simple as putting slightly higher gauge strings on her.

Pictures to follow....

[darling67]

3 hours ago, mihcmac said:

There are a few 'un-boxing' episodes on youtube for new 2020 Epiphones mentioning fret buzz, sometimes after lowering the bridge to a good level,  frets needing to be dressed after the 5th fret going higher, in addition some were sent back to the seller.

Also the nut pinching the strings is not unusual, many new guitars require a very small amount of careful slot widening, but not deepening. 

 

I've seen those. The Troglys(?) Channel un-boxed one of these SGs and he was knocked-out by the fit and finish. No issues with it, whereas other 2020 Epi's were frought with them.

I thought maybe adjusting the stop bar might help. As these SG's only sport the stop bar—no tun-a-matic bridge—I think I'll need a special tool to turn those "grub screws" to make adjustments. 

Thanks!

Edited March 15, 2020 by darling67

[Sgt. Pepper]

I understand that when you get a new guitar action may be high, and it can be lowered, and a nut may need a slot widened  just a little bit, or a truss rod needs tweaking, that's acceptable, but when you have to start getting stuff replaced and it's brand-new that is not.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[rct]

When I got my M-36 I had to get my shorts replaced.

rct

[darling67]

4 hours ago, rct said:

Hello Darling, good to see you!

Yeah, you may be able to fix it with a well measured, well centered, well cut nut.  Fenderitis is the technical term for E string slippage at either side of the fingerboard, generally caused by misalignment of the nut with the bridge, usually caused by the neck joint being wonky and needing an adjustment.  On teles it was for years because the bridge was misaligned with the nut.

It doesn't happen that often at all on Gibsons and their derivatives, so you should be able to re-nut this and be fine.  Should.  Always possible something is slightly out of line, and over the length of the scale it becomes a big difference.  Get some pictures up here of the nut and a look down the scale length  and we'll help you out.

rct

 

As promised... some pics of the nut, and a pic of the neck looking down to the stop bar. Interesting… when looking at the latter, the space between the 1st and 2nd string seems much wider apart than the 2nd and 3rd string. Perhaps the 1st string is not far enough "inside" the fretboard? 🤔

Thanks!

      

   

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, rct said:

When I got my M-36 I had to get my shorts replaced.

rct

I'll bet. That thing is a 0000-35 on steroids. I wear depends when I play my 41.   A,  D is as big as I'll go. My Guild JF was massive. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[darling67]

30 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I'll bet. That thing is a 0000-35 on steroids. I wear depends when I play my 41.   A,  D is as big as I'll go. My Guild JF was massive. 

 

OMG... I've been a Beatles fan for over 40 years, and I always thought (never bothered to check) that Paul was saying, "Now somewhere in Black Mountain Hills of Dakota…".

Just noticed your avatar quote, and "D'oh!"  😳

Seems I am always learning new things about them, when I think I know pretty much all there is to know about them.

[Sgt. Pepper]

9 hours ago, darling67 said:

 

OMG... I've been a Beatles fan for over 40 years, and I always thought (never bothered to check) that Paul was saying, "Now somewhere in Black Mountain Hills of Dakota…".

Just noticed your avatar quote, and "D'oh!"  😳

Seems I am always learning new things about them, when I think I know pretty much all there is to know about them.

I hear mining when when he sings it. I started listening to them in about '76 or so when I was 10. My first two albums I ever bought were Abbey and Pepper. Then I discovered KISS and the Beatles were history for me for a while.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[darling67]

16 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I hear mining when when he sings it. I started listening to them in about '76 or so when I was 10. My first two albums I ever bought were Abbey and Pepper. Then I discovered KISS and the Beatles were history for me for a while.

 

Hmmm. Perhaps I am right with, "Mountain...."? Gotta look now!

I began listening to them around '77-'78. My first album I ever bought was McCartney's "London Town", followed by, "Wings Greatest". Paul was first, and The Beatles allowed shortly. My friends in 5th and 6th grade tried to get me into KISS, but I wan't buying it. I stuck with The Beatles until around high school (11th and 12th grade) before they took a backseat to bands like Zeppelin, Yes, Cream, The Doors, etc. as well as newer bands like U2, R.E.M., etc.

The Fabs made a resurgence up at college where I met some fellow-Beatle fanatics, and they've remained in the forefront for me ever since.

[deeman]

While there are some minor Mountains in the Dakota's I think the history of Mining and Mining towns in the Dakota's as well as the context of the song makes me believe the lyric is 'mining.' If you search the lyrics online, you'll get results with both Mountain and Mining.

[Sgt. Pepper]

I hear mining but he is a Brit and trying to talking  in that funny voice at the beginning, and could be saying it so fast it sounds like mining instead of mountain.

[darling67]

11 hours ago, deeman said:

While there are some minor Mountains in the Dakota's I think the history of Mining and Mining towns in the Dakota's as well as the context of the song makes me believe the lyric is 'mining.' If you search the lyrics online, you'll get results with both Mountain and Mining.

 

Right on.... never mind that I've never heard of "mountain hills". Not sure if those are "a thing" or not. 😄

But, like you said, online lyrics have both "mountain" and "mining"—however, "mountain" claims the vast majority of instances.

One key source would be the lyrics/poster which was included within the hallowed gatefold of the White Album.

Edited March 18, 2020 by darling67

[darling67]

14 hours ago, deeman said:

While there are some minor Mountains in the Dakota's I think the history of Mining and Mining towns in the Dakota's as well as the context of the song makes me believe the lyric is 'mining.' If you search the lyrics online, you'll get results with both Mountain and Mining.

 

11 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I hear mining but he is a Brit and trying to talking  in that funny voice at the beginning, and could be saying it so fast it sounds like mining instead of mountain.

 

Well, guys... I was right. This is from the White Album lyrics poster. Can't really find a more reputable source than an Apple Records printed insert.

Now that this is cleared up, I'd like some insights — if there are any — into my posted pics of the nut and fretboard… which was the topic of this thread, after all. 😆

Edited March 18, 2020 by darling67

[Sgt. Pepper]

7 hours ago, darling67 said:

 

 

Well, guys... I was right. This is from the White Album lyrics poster. Can't really find a more reputable source than an Apple Records printed insert.

Now that this is cleared up, I'd like some insights — if there are any — into my posted pics of the nut and fretboard… which was the topic of this thread, after all. 😆

I will change it above my avatar.  I'm gonna write Paul and tell him my lyric us better.

[Sgt. Pepper]

9 hours ago, darling67 said:

 

 

Well, guys... I was right. This is from the White Album lyrics poster. Can't really find a more reputable source than an Apple Records printed insert.

Now that this is cleared up, I'd like some insights — if there are any — into my posted pics of the nut and fretboard… which was the topic of this thread, after all. 😆

Corrected. I should have looked. I only have 8 or 9 copies of that album in all forms. Used to have it on 8-track. Loaned it to my friend and he never returned it. Been listening to that album since '79 and all this time I've gotten it wrong. I suck.

[deeman]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I will change it above my avatar.  I'm gonna write Paul and tell him my lyric is better.

 

I agree, yours is totally better and we totally de-railed this thread about high e slippage. My apologies to the OP.

[zigzag]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:12 PM, darling67 said:

 

As promised... some pics of the nut, and a pic of the neck looking down to the stop bar. Interesting… when looking at the latter, the space between the 1st and 2nd string seems much wider apart than the 2nd and 3rd string. Perhaps the 1st string is not far enough "inside" the fretboard? 🤔

Thanks!

      

   

 

It may just be the lighting, but it seems to me like your neck binding is thinner between the second and fourth frets. Could it be possible this is contributing to string slippage. It took me over a year to notice this on my 335 at around the fifteenth fret. It is high enough to where it is not the cause of the slippage, but it is now all I see when I look at this guitar.