Typhuz Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Sorry if this is covered in detail already and I missed it. I have read notes in the bug thread and other comments about the hum of the neck pickup but am still surprised by how loud it is. I have zero background noise utilizing the bridge or piezo in comparison and find the neck pickup to be unusable. (OK I am over-reacting but man is it loud and distracting). I am primarily playing with headphones so thought this may have something to do with it but even on an amp it is bad. I've also gone through the polarity tests and appear to be setup correctly! Have we received any update from Gibson on when this will be resolved? My understanding from the bugs thread is that it has something to do with the pickup configuration being locked. Please correct me if I have misunderstood anything or if this is the expected result. It has been a long time since I owned a Les Paul...my last was a 1979 Les Paul Deluxe with Baby Soaps that I would love to have back...and I don't remember this much noise...of course different pickups. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhuz Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 So my guess is this is a live with it situation for now? No word from Gibson on enabling the external coil on the neck pickup? And no better or a firmware update when I receive my RIP. One other thing, it may sound like I am unhappy with my purchase but that is not the case. I find myself playing the Dark Fire more than any other guitar I have owned in my life, this thing is a beauty that needs a bit of work yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 All I can say is: * The Gibson Dark Fire Team is aware of the Forum Bug List, and currently working on solutions. * Good things are happening behind the scenes in Dark Fire R&D land, to add value to your Dark Fire investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulhuru Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I am a bit confused by the above, as: I did open the Neck PUP cover to find that the P90 was set-up the following way: Two single coils, one on top of the other, two wires, one black one white, coming out of the assembly. So: a) there was, to my understanding, no point for me trying to move coils around for "my" polarity issue (see here for more) ;) It seems to me the arrangement IS a hum cancelling set-up. c) There is supposedly no such thing as a bug that could be adressed by Tronical with the neck PUP, as only two wires are coming out of it, it will not be possible to play with the lower / upper coil wiring polarities with software / relay matrix. Only a soldering iron job could possibly change the situation if lower coil is/was not wired in. So while i do notice a phase issue when toggle switch is in middle position, I have not yet noticed any kind of buzz/ hum from the Neck pick-up. Could it be that the hum problem was adressed while my guitar was serviced in Nashville, thus bringing up the "polarity" issue? This would only seem logical, if "the second single coil underneath the P90" (if I may say so) was then activated at the factory. And from what I have seen, the P90 actually looks more to me like what is described as a P100 here: http://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/Pickup%20color%20codes.htm As a side note, and with no news from Gibson service, I am tempted to decide that the polarity issue (and no hum on neck pick-up btw) is a good combination that I may in fact be happy with. As it allows for different tones, more lows / less lows, with small adjustments of PUPs volumes when both PUPs are active (by playing with the amount of cancellation). This type of set-up is referred by some as a Jimmy Page Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonutalan1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ulhuru, I'm most grateful for your post; I believe you're onto something here. While my DF has not been back to Nashville (it's box-stock original), I've never experienced hum on the neck pickup alone either. Following this forum, I've been wondering if there's something wrong with my DF, because I simply have never experienced and can't create this, although others complain of it. Perhaps it's more a function of their amps, rather than the DF? To elucidate: I'm a fan of modeling amps; I play through a Roland Micro-Cube, Fender G-Dec 30, Line 6 Vetta II Combo, and a Johnson 250 Millenium HD through a 2x12 Peavey Cab (acoustic amps too, but that's beside the point here.) Frankly, i'd probably be happy with a Fender Twin-Reverb and be done with it, but I like to experiment. At any rate, playing through a clean amp model (all guitar volume/tone knobs at 5) with *any/all* of the above amps, I experience *zero* hum through the neck pickup (or any others). If I switch to an overdrive model, everything hums equally. I am totally unable to differentiate hum between the neck, bridge, and piezo pickups. This seems to agree with your experience and analysis as posted above; any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulhuru Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hi, No more thought for now. And no answer from Gibson yet, but we thought we give them a break for a while. (Boris, two quiet weeks, with no questions from Switzerland, just for you :-) !!!) However, the neck PUP is definitely out of polarity for now. Next step is for my dealer to investigate further right at the Gibson booth at Frankfurt Musik Messe, April 1 to 4. There he will hopefully have access to several DFs to check for himself how they behave polarity wise and have access to premium info. My hope is to see an updated firmware released / announced, among other exiting news, which would correct the polarity issue (tough I cannot see how this would work, since apparently polarities currently are all over the place on different DFs. It would mean one firmware per DF !!) Or a second better possibility: a firmware that would allow users to play with pups polarities... Knowing that there's a whole lot of relays in DF it is my understanding that playing with PUPs polarities is an option that could be given to users. Either by playing with MCK directly or with an hypothetical configuration software. Ho, I also just removed the scratchplate and I am happy to have done so, there were good bits of great looking flame top underneath it! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulhuru Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Photonutalan1, Maybe your DF is just right? No buzz, no phase issue, flame top, great sound, just how it has to be! Enjoy it! I play mostly with Guitar Rig 3, so amp modeling too, and great sounds as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonutalan1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ulhuru, Thanks for your reply; I'm delighted you found such beautiful flames under the scratchplate! My DF is gorgeous too; it far outshines the Gibson website demo DF. I've been very happy with my DF and, with your input, I'm happier still! Thanks! Please let us know what you find out at Musik Messe. My very best to you, good friend!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraku Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thank you, Ulhuru and photonutalan1, for your post. About 2 and a half months ago, I posted a poll regarding the hum on the neck PU, which has been once moved to Polls sub-forum and now deleted. In there, I asked about the severity of the hum problem. I was the only one saying there was no hum. Since then, you guys are the first ones (other than me) saying no hum from the neck PU. I thought maybe my ears were wrong. I tested my amps with other single coil guitars (Gus G1 and Fender Standard Strat) and found that the typical single coil hum exists with my setting. I'm glad to find more cases without hum because this proves that I am not crazy! Like photonutalan1, I also do not observe any phase issue. Thanks again guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhuz Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'll be interested to see where this goes, as I don't think I have a polarity issue (following Elantric's great walkthrough) but definitely have a hum/buzz through the neck pickup that is distracting to say the least. Slight hum from the Piezo but not terrible. I play through both a GDEC and on a Line6 PocketPod with headphones (Love that thing!!!). Thinking about upgrading to the Pod X3. Haven't tried it on a clean amp so maybe I am adding to the issue by utilizing the modelers. But clean tone through the PocketPod bridge pickup= zero hum, clean tone through the neck =lotsa hum. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonutalan1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Typhuz, Since we both have GDECs, try this: DF set to Gibson "G" default, MCK pushed in, all vol/tone/MCK controls set to mid-range 5 => trs cable => DF black splitter box (*NO* AC power) => short (1') mono cable => GDEC (set @ factory preset P13 "5 Jazz", vol 2-3, guitar tone 1, background level 2.) I have no hum; do you? If yes; you probably have a problem with connections or DF. If no, your problem lies elsewhere (settings?) and you can troubleshoot to isolate and correct. Remember, modeling amps attempt to model *everything* about the original, including noisy circuits and input sensitivity/characteristics (maybe this is the critical factor?). Please let us know! Since you stated you love it, I took a look at the Line 6 Pocket Pod online; it seems like a great portable practice solution, especially through headphones! I'll definitely investigate buying one in person (which of the 2 proffered do you own and enjoy; or would you recommend the other?). You expressed interest in the Line 6 Pod X3; I just bought a Pod X3 Live and, while I'm still learning its multitudinous possibilites, I'm really enjoying it! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhuz Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 Sorry for the delay, I did the test and still get buzz from the neck pickup. On the PocketPod, I have the one with the screen on it (The new one I think just has knobs). I really enjoy (and my family as well) playing with the headphones on, gives me a chance to just play which I don't find myself taking as many risks whan Ihave it through the amp. Still want a big stack for the basement though! Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonutalan1 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Typhuz, Thanks for the follow-up; I'll buy the PocketPod with the screen, as you have. Thanks for your recommendation! With the test outlined, I'm amazed your neck pickup still buzzes (hums); I can only suggest you verify ground connections in your cables (swap 'em out; use a multimeter), or try to trace a ground fault in your DF (I'm sure you've checked for sources of EMF (electro-magnetic force/fields) near your playing environment (fluorescents, microwaves, wireless phones, magnetic fields, motors, etc.). It's possible different DFs were wired differently, in which case you're probably looking at an RMA. I wish I could be of more help! Again, thanks for the recommendation, and best wishes! (I see that stack in your future!) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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