Covid19 How many in your state or country?

[fortyearspickn]

1 hour ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Would be great if everyone could abandon the assumption that fear is driving people inside.  I'm abiding by the quarantine but I'm also the "essential" guy who handed out laptops to the public for 2 weeks.  Fear did not drive me into quarantine.  

 

Thank you - I hope everyone you issued a laptop thanked you especially !   

I was being sarcastic - it isn't  FEAR that is driving the majority of the House Representatives to cower in their bunkers - it's politics !     And, certainly - most of the  people observing the quarantine/lockdown/shutdown are doing it because they are good citizens doing what their leaders tell them.   There are many people though - who are clearly afraid.   

[fortyearspickn]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

This has been one of the dumbest things we've ever done as a country.  There were many things we could have done to protect the vulnerable without shutting down the entire economy.  Have them shelter at home.  Have food and supplies delivered.  Give them financial aid.  Lots of things.  It would have been more effective, less expensive and done way less harm.  

We have cancer patients around the country that are not getting their chemotherapy.  Are they not vulnerable?  How long should they go without it?  Until they're dead?  That's just one example.  there are countless others.  

 

And we'll never get daily death counts on those.     My wife is a cancer patient.  She just got her treatment started before the NBA cancelled it's season and the American College of Surgeons cancelled all surgeries except those that are 'Emergency'.   Torn ACL ?   Tough.  Stay off your feet until November and hope you don't wind up needing a knee replacement.  

[Black Dog]

9 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

How are the deaths per million people in Sweden right now?  

 

You can't compare Sweden as a whole to the US as a whole.  Sweden to NY is a much more appropriate comparison.

[jvi]

32 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Rather than say that, why don't you read the article and point out to me what is false?  Can you do that?

Compare the data between Sweden and NY.  Is that false?

all bs on that station is why

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Actually is was 1 million people in Sweden vs 1 million people in USA.  Apples to apples.  Doesn't make sense to compare an entire country to JUST a hotspot in another country. 

 

That's completely false.   Just because it's death per million stat doesn't mean they are apples to apples.  You have to compare areas of similar size, population and demographics.  There's never going to be a perfect comparison but you can't include a country with the vast interior of the US to a country like Sweden. 

[brad1]

4 minutes ago, jvi said:

all bs on that station is why

So  he is right. You can't point out one false thing. You can only make juvenile, blanket statements like the one above.

BTW FOX news ratings are more than twice that of MSNBC, and more than 3 times that of CNN. Those stats can be found anywhere. I got mine from The Hill newspaper.

So.....if everything on FOX is BS, why do so many people watch it? For lies? For BS? 

I don't think so.

And just so you know.....I DID NOT VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP!  I am just being fair.

It's called being unbiased. Something you and many are not able to do for some reason.

[jvi]

UNBIASED ? nite time that station is PURE bias to the far weedy right

[Black Dog]

The other thing people forget about the Swedish plan is that they may have somewhat higher numbers of cases and deaths initially, but in the long run they will do the same or better because they will get to herd immunity faster.   But still, just 2500 dead since this started?  That's a low number in absolute terms or per capita, whichever you like. 

Pennsylvania has a population of 12.8 million.  They have a full shelter in place order.  They have 2400 deaths from Covid-19.  Sweden population 10 million with mild restrictions 2500 deaths.  And it's not summer in Pennsylvania right now.

You can go back and forth on this all day long.  If you want to keep your blinders on go ahead.  

[Black Dog]

So, if you look at every single east coast state in the US, I get a total population of around 112 million.  Total deaths for all those states is 42 thousand.  That's 37.5 per 100,000.  Sweden is 25 per 100,000.  That includes coastal every state from Maine to Florida.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

4 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

I'll be back to quote this after the chips fall. 

 

I can't wait.

[jvi]

19 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

So, if you look at every single east coast state in the US, I get a total population of around 112 million.  Total deaths for all those states is 42 thousand.  That's 37.5 per 100,000.  Sweden is 25 per 100,000.  That includes coastal every state from Maine to Florida.

42000 is a lot of people from 1 part of the country , something should be done to stop it. stay home- be kind- be safe, 

[rct]

54 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The other thing people forget about the Swedish plan is that they may have somewhat higher numbers of cases and deaths initially, but in the long run they will do the same or better because they will get to herd immunity faster.   

 

Ah yes, "herd immunity".  Keep repeating that and it will just magically come true without a reliable, consistent vaccine administered to the high 80% low 90% of the population.

So wait, before you answer, ask your parents or grandparents if we developed "herd immunity" by everybody going to the gym and huffing Poliomyelitis.

If you don't know anyone with Polio I'll help you out, Doctor.

rct

[Mr. Gibson]

1067 positive 19 deaths.

supposed to open things up here starting Friday.

[gdecantoo]

8 minutes ago, rct said:

 

Ah yes, "herd immunity".  Keep repeating that and it will just magically come true without a reliable, consistent vaccine administered to the high 80% low 90% of the population.

So wait, before you answer, ask your parents or grandparents if we developed "herd immunity" by everybody going to the gym and huffing Poliomyelitis.

If you don't know anyone with Polio I'll help you out, Doctor.

rct

When i hear "stable genius" i think  of horse stalls and the guy who is the best at shoveling horse dookie. When i hear "herd immunity" i think of cows. Put them all in the same pen and it is survival of the fittest . If they die no big deal we were going to slaughter them anyway.  I am saddened by the fact that some people think this is ok for humans. No concern for others lives. And from medical professionals no less!

[Mr. Gibson]

I see a couple geniuses drank household cleaners to kill viruses. One drank 16 oz of bleach.thats gotta be harder to swallow than tequila 

[Pinch]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Gibson said:

I see a couple geniuses drank household cleaners to kill viruses. One drank 16 oz of bleach.thats gotta be harder to swallow than tequila 

Much like with tequila, it's not so much the taste as it is the after-effects. 

Tequila is a recipe for disaster. 

[Black Dog]

45 minutes ago, gdecant1 said:

When i hear "stable genius" i think  of horse stalls and the guy who is the best at shoveling horse dookie. When i hear "herd immunity" i think of cows. Put them all in the same pen and it is survival of the fittest . If they die no big deal we were going to slaughter them anyway.  I am saddened by the fact that some people think this is ok for humans. No concern for others lives. And from medical professionals no less!

 

You aren't paying attention.  What I'm pointing out is that the overall US plan of mass quarantine/shelter in place is resulting in MORE DEATHS.  The approach I'm advocating is resulting in LESS DEATHS.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by Black Dog

[gdecantoo]

I am paying attention. Herd immunity for humans should never ever be a plan. 

[rct]

11 minutes ago, gdecant1 said:

I am paying attention. Herd immunity for humans should never ever be a plan. 

 

Yes.  Herd immunity is a positive consequence, not something we actually aim for.  The two words have been tossed around by more Smartest Guys In The Room these last two months than the retard bus can carry.  Friggin morons.

rct

[Pinch]

I kind of agree with all of you simultaneously here. Let's not lose our heads. 

[Black Dog]

16 minutes ago, gdecant1 said:

I am paying attention. Herd immunity for humans should never ever be a plan. 

 

I never said plan.  I said approach.  

1 hour ago, gdecant1 said:

When i hear "herd immunity" i think of cows

 

So maybe there is a misunderstanding of what I'm talking about here.  In the context of this virus (not polio or smallpox or anything else), what we're talking about is a virus that causes a very, very mild illness in healthy young people.  If we develop a plan to shield the vulnerable (which can easily be done), and let the young healthy people get it, then they will protect and shield the vulnerable with their immunity.   It's the exact opposite of killing the old, or anyone else for that matter.  It has nothing to do with cows.

One more thing.  You seem to question my fitness for my profession.  I graduated medical school in 1997.  Since then I've seen over 150,000 patients.  I've never even tried to keep track of the number of lives I've personally saved.  If I would have done it, It would be a very large number.   I still do it every time I go to work, Covid-19 or not.  

[Black Dog]

24 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Problem with that theory is it's been reported that people who have already had COVID-19 are not immune.  South Korea and Germany have reported patients who were cleared and then got sick from it again.  It's a nice thought but not a one size fits all solution.   

Edit: source https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/south-korea-coronavirus-retesting-positive-intl-hnk/index.html

 

You are like a little puppy, chasing it's tail and other shadows.  You wander around on the internet chasing this or that or the other thing.  That is the fog of war.  Nobody knows what any of it means.  You don't get through it by panic.  The way you get through it is by following the science of what you know.

[Black Dog]

How about Yahoo?  Are they like Fox too?  Before you comment at least read it (all of it) and try to understand it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lockdown-critics-may-valid-points-152936053.html

[Black Dog]

5 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Black Dog - are you saying 'Herd Immunity' can occur where the having the virus does not cause immunity after infection?  How exactly does that work Big Dog? 

 

First of all, many of the tests that were developed in a hurried fashion, especially those outside the US, had high false positives and false negatives.  We even had a lot of that here in the US.  So when someone has a test result you don't always know what it means.  Second, just because there may be SOME people who's exposure and infection did not result in immunity DOES NOT mean that everyone else has no immunity.  You know absolutely nothing.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

3 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Sigh. It wasn't a study, it was a bunch of medical doctors going "hmmmmm this person was here last week, cleared and discharged and now they have returned sick with the same thing again".   You're just not listening buddy. 

 

When did I say it was a study?  Go chase your tail some more.  Then when you get tired you can take a nap. or pee on the floor.