Covid19 How many in your state or country?

[SteveFord]

Meanwhile, happy Americans express their desire to return to work at the local meat packing plant.

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Sigh. It wasn't a study, it was a bunch of medical doctors going "hmmmmm this person was here last week, cleared and discharged and now they have returned sick with the same thing again".   You're just not listening buddy. 

 

Wow!  What a timely coincidence.  I just heard it reported in the news that the "repeat infections" were due to false positive tests.  Who was it that said that? 

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

First of all, many of the tests that were developed in a hurried fashion, especially those outside the US, had high false positives and false negatives. 

 

Newsweek?  Is that any good?

https://www.newsweek.com/south-korea-experts-say-recovered-coronavirus-patients-retested-positive-because-dead-virus-parts-1500998

Edited April 30, 2020 by Black Dog

[Brucebubs]

Australia today has 6753 reported cases - 5714 recovered and 91 have died.

[fortyearspickn]

9 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

If my health was compromised, I would be concerned about never seeing my family again.   Not scared tho.  I guess that's just me. 

Handing out laptops was not a "hero" move - I assume more sarcasm.  The powers that be decided it was necessary and it's my job.  Some kids in our school district don't even have Internet, much less a computer.  It was done out of fairness to those students, and (let's be real) probably so they don't lose aid money. 

 No - not sarcasm.  Sorry if it came off that way.  I appreciate any and every person and act that helps keep our country running during the shutdown.  A sincere thank you. 

By the way -  only 3 children have died from CV, and just as few documented cases of a child spreading it.  So, teachers will be safe when schools open up.  At least if they stay 6 feet away from other teachers. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by fortyearspickn

[fortyearspickn]

2 hours ago, SteveFord said:

Meanwhile, happy Americans express their desire to return to work at the local meat packing plant.

 

That looks like the Michigan governors mansion - not a meat packing plant.  Tried to find  "Michigan Meat Packers Protest".  Zero. Zilch. Nada. 

[fortyearspickn]

Oh wait. Never mind.  I saw a video of this.  It is in the Michigan State House.  Protesters who have been upset for a couple of weeks about the lockdown.

NOT MEAT PACKERS.      Nice Try.   

[SteveFord]

The meat packing plant comment was an attempt at levity.  You may have read about the outbreaks at those facilities. 

I don't think those boys would be too eager to go to work there despite all of the hootin' 'n' hollerin'.

Whoever thought you'd have scenes like this occurring in the United States.  Here's another pic from Michigan earlier today:

Here's the article if you're bored:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/michigan-rally-against-shelter-place-order-spills-capitol-193513207--abc-news-topstories.html

 

At least I can work from home while the world goes crazy.  Time to play the old Martin and call it a day.  This is a guitar forum so here's a beauty pic just for the fun of it.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by SteveFord

[rct]

Nuthin like the chatoyance of a Martin top.

rct

[fortyearspickn]

32 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

So as a medical professional, do you agree with Dr. Fauci (the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases)?  Or do you feel you are more informed on that particular subject than Dr. Fauci?  

 As a Newbie - here on this Forum for a month - with 2/3rds of your posts in two threads - both of which are discussing  Coronavirus -  it might be less stressful in these difficult times if you asked yourself if you came here to argue about public health policy - or to learn about Gibson guitars.   Even RCT gets it. 

[Pinch]

3 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

 Even RCT gets it. 

To which rct replied, "even me? Thanks."

[gdecantoo]

13 hours ago, Black Dog said:

 

I never said plan.  I said approach.  

 

So maybe there is a misunderstanding of what I'm talking about here.  In the context of this virus (not polio or smallpox or anything else), what we're talking about is a virus that causes a very, very mild illness in healthy young people.  If we develop a plan to shield the vulnerable (which can easily be done), and let the young healthy people get it, then they will protect and shield the vulnerable with their immunity.   It's the exact opposite of killing the old, or anyone else for that matter.  It has nothing to do with cows.

One more thing.  You seem to question my fitness for my profession.  I graduated medical school in 1997.  Since then I've seen over 150,000 patients.  I've never even tried to keep track of the number of lives I've personally saved.  If I would have done it, It would be a very large number.   I still do it every time I go to work, Covid-19 or not.  

At this time we don't know enough about this virus  to even think about  herd immunity even if it was an option!

Plan, approach, course of action, way to go, in this context they mean the same thing.  

Please stop telling people that this is a very, very mild illness  in healthy young people. Even the news media stopped telling that lie. I think it was BBP's  son, my daughter, my son in law and thousands of others would be more than happy to argue this point with you.

No misunderstanding. You are advocating we develop a plan (you did say plan this time) for herd immunity  without knowing if it would actually work yet only this time your saying only do it to the young and healthy.

[jvi]

16 hours ago, Black Dog said:

How about Yahoo?  Are they like Fox too?  Before you comment at least read it (all of it) and try to understand it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lockdown-critics-may-valid-points-152936053.html

fox and now yahoo??  could be better sources...

Edited May 1, 2020 by jvi
edit

[jvi]

4 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

That was a Bloomberg Opinion piece republished by Yahoo News.  They do the same with articles from Cosmopolitan, InStyle, The Daily Beast, E!, Etc.  

Article was written by Joseph Nocera who is an American business journalist and author. 

science and higher education examples may be better -COSMO ?  yer joking I hope...daily beast?  if this wasnt so sad ...

[Black Dog]

3 hours ago, gdecant1 said:

At this time we don't know enough about this virus  to even think about  herd immunity even if it was an option!

Plan, approach, course of action, way to go, in this context they mean the same thing.  

Please stop telling people that this is a very, very mild illness  in healthy young people. Even the news media stopped telling that lie. I think it was BBP's  son, my daughter, my son in law and thousands of others would be more than happy to argue this point with you.

No misunderstanding. You are advocating we develop a plan (you did say plan this time) for herd immunity  without knowing if it would actually work yet only this time your saying only do it to the young and healthy.

 

Actually, herd immunity is proven science.  All this lock down stuff is not.  It's never been done before.

The last numbers I've seen for the US were that the number of people less than 25 years age who have died from this virus is less than 100.   The number of people less than 45 that have died is less than 1000.  It starts to go up after 60.   And the vast majority of them had significant underlying health conditions.   It is absolutely not a "lie" that young healthy people  don't get very sick from this.  It's a fact.

[Black Dog]

11 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

So as a medical professional, do you agree with Dr. Fauci (the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases)?  Or do you feel you are more informed on that particular subject than Dr. Fauci?  

 

Agree with him about what?

He's made a few big mistakes in this.  First he said this was not going to be a problem for us in the US, remember that?  Then he said we shouldn't wear masks because they would make things worse.  Now he thinks everyone should wear a mask.   Then they asked him when we should re-open to which he said when there are no new cases.  Really?  None?  When is that going to happen?  Then he said that we could lift the shutdown when we have a vaccine.  I was reading about the '17-'18 Flu season and I saw an interesting number.  CDC says that around 60,000 people died from Flu that year.  They estimated that around 5000 lives were saved by the Flu vaccine.  That's not very impressive.  The point is everyone keeps talking about the vaccine that we don't have, that we don't know effectiveness of, that's going to save us all.

He's obviously a smart guy but disaster preparedness is apparently not his thing.

Him, Redfield (CDC), et al, were caught flat footed on this.   Why did we have no PPE  stockpile?  Why didn't we have a plan in advance for a respiratory virus pandemic?  Everyone knew we would have one, I mean another one.   NIH, CDC and FEMA should have had all that worked out in advance instead of the Keystone Cop approach.

Other than that I agree with him completely.

[Pinch]

Black Dog: but do we know enough about this group of viruses to implement herd immunity as a strategy? If not, gdecant has a good point. 

Gdecant: I understand you've had this affect you personally. Don't mistake Black Dog's at times seemingly detached style here for arrogance. It comes w/ the territory in medicine, where you'd go crazy (and irrational, which causes irreparable damage) if you didn't adopt a helicopter perspective. 

Hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did, I hope I did it thoroughly. 

I think maybe we should grant this thread amnesty from the no-politics rule. A lot of people are going through a lot, and there's a lot of fear. Let's allow venting, and let's give each other space to vent. 

[Pinch]

3 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

So .... You do indeed feel you are more informed on the subject of preventing the spread of Infectious Diseases than the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases?   Wow, cool. 

You'll find that frontline physicians often know a lot more than deskboard big wigs. 

[Pinch]

11 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

hen he said we shouldn't wear masks because they would make things worse.  Now he thinks everyone should wear a mask.

That's where I stopped listening to him as far as this. It was advice on par with cow dung for flesh wounds. And I'm pretty sure he knew.

[fortyearspickn]

33 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

 

Actually, herd immunity is proven science.  All this lock down stuff is not.  It's never been done before.

The last numbers I've seen for the US were that the number of people less than 25 years age who have died from this virus is less than 100.   The number of people less than 45 that have died is less than 1000.  It starts to go up after 60.   And the vast majority of them had significant underlying health conditions.   It is absolutely not a "lie" that young healthy people  don't get very sick from this.  It's a fact.

And only THREE children have died from this virus.  In three months.  And yet some politicians are calling to keep the K-12 schools closed in the Fall.  

[fortyearspickn]

8 minutes ago, Pinch said:

Black Dog: but do we know enough about this group of viruses to implement herd immunity as a strategy? If not, gdecant has a good point. 

Gdecant: I understand you've had this affect you personally. Don't mistake Black Dog's at times seemingly detached style here for arrogance. It comes w/ the territory in medicine, where you'd go crazy (and irrational, which causes irreparable damage) if you didn't adopt a helicopter perspective. 

Hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did, I hope I did it thoroughly. 

I think maybe we should grant this thread amnesty from the no-politics rule. A lot of people are going through a lot, and there's a lot of fear. Let's allow venting, and let's give each other space to vent. 

 Several excellent point.   

I may steal your  line:  "Hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did, I hope I did it thoroughly."      Will probably need it before the day is out. 

[Black Dog]

11 minutes ago, Pinch said:

Black Dog: but do we know enough about this group of viruses to implement herd immunity as a strategy? If not, gdecant has a good point. 

 

Yes, there is evidence of immunity to the coronavirus family broadly.  There is also empirical evidence going on right now in that where there are outbreaks, people do not appear to be getting infected again.

[Pinch]

2 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

 

Yes, there is evidence of immunity to the coronavirus family broadly.  There is also empirical evidence going on right now in that where there are outbreaks, people do not appear to be getting infected again.

I meant pathogenesis and this, that and the other rather than antibody immunity.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Pinch

[jvi]

herd immunity assumes loss while attaining -   LOSS OF LIFE

[Black Dog]

14 minutes ago, Pinch said:

I meant pathogenesis and this, that and the other rather than antibody immunity.

 

I'm not sure what you mean.  But, the presence of measurable antibodies should offer some level of protection from future infection for some period of time.  Don't forget that the virus is here and won't go away any time soon, if ever.  Remember we had H1N1 in 2009 and it sickened and killed a lot of people.  We still have it.  It still circulates but our immune systems are better prepared for it so it makes us less sick now.

With SARS and MERS (two other coronaviruses), they both appeared, caused infections and then "disappeared", or at least don't cause any "noticable" infections/outbreaks anymore.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

39 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said:

So .... You do indeed feel you are more informed on the subject of preventing the spread of Infectious Diseases than the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases?   Wow, cool. 

 

So as professionals when we see someone make mistakes we shouldn't point them out, acknowledge them?  Especially in science and medicine?  We should just look the other way?  Don't dare question authority?  Great idea.