seanm Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Hi all. I see all kinds of online discussion about tailpiece height, and how the strings should not rub against the edge of the bridge. But I don't find anything about whether it's OK for the strings to rub against the holes in the tail piece. Here's a picture of mine below. You can see that the strings are making contact with the top of the holes on the tailpiece. Is that OK? Or does it affect things negatively, or weaken them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 That will have no impact on anything whatsoever. When it comes to the strings touching the bridge, there are differing opinions but I'm a non-believer. I don't think that does anything bad either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 What he said ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I don't agree with Brad but Black Dog makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanm Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 47 minutes ago, Big Bill said: I don't agree with Brad but Black Dog makes sense. wait... What?????? any hows,,, nope. don't mean nuthin.. play on lad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Big Bill said: I don't agree with Brad but Black Dog makes sense. I can understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Whenever I rub the tailpiece openings I get yelled at. rct 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Check it out, this is my '17 Tom Murphy True Historic R0: So, for that element, your guitar is True Historic spec. Congratulations! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 3 hours ago, rct said: Whenever I rub the tailpiece openings I get yelled at. rct You rub, I kiss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerbear114 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 I think I would be more concerned that all the saddles are slammed down or bottomed out .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanm Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Jerbear114 said: I think I would be more concerned that all the saddles are slammed down or bottomed out .... Thanks @Jerbear114. I got this guitar about 20 years ago, then stopped playing, so it hasn't been played much but it has had strings on it all that time. I don't think it was set up well (if at all) from the factory since it always had buzzing frets and poor intonation. I recently got it out and tried to set it up on my own and now the action is great but intonation is still off. Half of the strings intonate correctly, and half are still sharp. And yes, as you can see, even the ones that sound correct have the saddles all the way down, which indicates that something isn't right. I have already done the following: Put on new strings (9-42's) Lower the action. With the 1st fret pressed and measured at the 15th fret: the height of the 6th string 1.93mm (thickness of an EU 10 cent coin), the height of the 1st string is about 1mm (thickness of a 42 gauge string) Adjusted the truss rod so that, with the 1st and 15th frets down, the height of the string over the 7th fret is between 0.009" and 0.011" (I used guitar strings to measure, the 9 gauge can pass between the fret and string but the 11 gauge can not.) Ensured that the bridge doesn't appear to be leaning forward Raised the tail piece in an attempt to lower tension on the strings Adjusted pickup heights: Bridge to both E strings: 2.4mm (thickness of an EU 50 cent coin) Neck to both E strings: 3.2mm (thickness of an EU 1 cent coin stacked on a US penny) The next things I'm going to try: Put on heavier strings, maybe 10-46's Turn around all the saddles so I can move them back a bit more. (It seems like that wouldn't really be fixing the problem though, right?) Double-check the nut measurements (I really hope this isn't the problem since I can't fix that) Ask for help here 😀 Buy a wider bridge so I can slide the saddles back even further If you or anyone else has some advice now at this time, I'm all ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 I've never seen the bridge saddles all the way to the back before. Something says to me there is another problem not addressed and a heavier guage string won't address this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerbear114 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Yes, you need a bridge that has more travel room , there are plenty out there , I think Barber makes one and many other . That’s where I would start good luck .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 That looks like a Nashville bridge. You should have plenty of room for intonation with it. Your saddles are not all facing the optimal direction, that's one thing. Guitars with ABR bridges intonate just fine so I doubt that's it. The other thing is, at least for me, intonation is a tricky thing. You have to tune the open string, then check the intonation, then adjust it, then tune it open again, then check intonation again, etc. That's because when you moved your saddle, you just changed the overall tuning of the open string too. So now you have it right at the 12th but it's off for the open string. Then, when you re-tune the open string and check the intonation it may be off again. Sometimes it takes a few tries before you get it just right. Also, you're correct that string gauge can have some impact as well. 9-42 is on the thin side. It sounds like you have some fundamental understanding and skills for setup. But, there is a certain sequence you should follow too. I have an old Gibson setup guide that I'll try to upload. It's not available online anymore. Another thing is that if your saddles or nut aren't dressed properly that can have tuning/intonation effects that are weird. Usually though, there'll be a weird kind of sitar sound if you have that. A twisted neck can cause intonation problems too but that's a fairly rare thing that you can check for. Anyway, what I'm saying is that your problems are most likely related to the overall setup, not a defect in the guitar or some component of the guitar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Try turning the bridge round like Black Dogs bridge, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 46 minutes ago, RoyC said: Try turning the bridge round like Black Dogs bridge, Good thought but that would be wrong for the Nashville bridge, plus, the saddle notches would be the wrong size for the strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanm Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Black Dog said: It sounds like you have some fundamental understanding and skills for setup. But, there is a certain sequence you should follow too. I have an old Gibson setup guide that I'll try to upload. It's not available online anymore. Thanks, that would be awesome to take a look at that setup guide! And yeah, I'm kind of dreading trying to turn the saddles around, because from what I read the only way to get at the retainer wire on a Nashville bridge is to take off the strings and take the bridge off. What a pain! Oh well. Fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) The proper way to set the intonation is to measure from the face of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret at the high E. Then you set the the high E string saddle to that length from the middle of the 12th fret. Then, the B string should be about 1-2 mm further back (longer) than that, and the G 1-2 mm longer than the B. The D should be about where the B is and then the A and low E also each about 1-2 mm longer then the string before. I hope that makes sense. That should get you close for a start. Edited April 24, 2020 by Black Dog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) Here it is below. archive.gibson.com/backstage/tech002printable.htm 1/2 Gibson Custom Shop Setup Tips It’s your guitar; don’t be afraid to work on it. The Gibson Custom Shop builds the finest electric guitars ever made. Whether painstakingly recreating the sought-after classics of the late 50s and early 60s with the incredible VINTAGE ORIGINAL SPEC series, or enhancing time-honored traditions to an artist's wishes with the INSPIRED BY models, the luthiers of Gibson Custom have elevated guitar building to both a science and an art. It is a labor-intensive, hands-on process from start to finish, and each guitar brings with it special requirements and demands. They all have something in common, though: Before a guitar can leave the Custom Shop, it is meticulously set up to play beautifully. Here, for the first time, is an intensive breakdown of a Gibson Custom Shop setup process. Many players don't realize that a guitar is a precision instrument. Change in season, temperature, humidity, and even playing style can radically change a guitar's playability. While a guitar store or guitar repairman can set up your guitar for you, this will cost you anywhere from $25 to over $100. Also, much of a setup is based on your own personal preferences. Nobody can know your guitar like you do, and doing your own setups will allow you to know your guitar even better. The luthiers of the Gibson Custom Shop recommend setting up your guitar at least twice a year, more if you live somewhere with strong climate changes. A setup is a simple process once you get the hang of it. Work slowly and consult the pictures. Note that extreme care must be taken when tightening the truss rod. This is one of the few things you can do during a setup that can actually ruin your guitar. Remember, your guitar is a precision instrument. All the steps of the setup are designed to be performed slowly and gently. The results will be improved sound and playability, and a closer relationship with your instrument. YOU WILL NEED: 1. Wire cutters for strings 2. String winder 3. WD40 to oil truss rod nut 4. Small thin-walled 7/16" nut driver to adjust truss rod 5. Small phillips-head screwdriver to remove truss rod cover and small flat-head screwdriver to adjust intonation 6. 0000 steel wool 7. Fine, soft paintbrush 8. Linseed oil 9. 6" ruler, with measurements in 64ths 10. Tuner 11. Dry rag STEP 1 Remove strings.STEP 2 Gently clean frets and fretboard with 0000 steel wool. Place a little tape over the neck pickup to prevent steel wool from getting into the coils. With a soft paintbrush, thoroughly clean dust and dirt off neck after steel wooling. Note: If you are steel wooling the frets on a maple board, cover the fretboard with masking tape to protect it from scratches.STEP 3 Apply a light layer of linseed oil to the fretboard to bring out the deep richness of the rosewood. Immediately clean oil off fretboard with a dry rag. Be sure to remove all oil. Use linseed sparingly. An average-sized can of linseed oil should last years.STEP 4 Restring, tune to pitch.STEP 5 To check neck straightness and relief, hold the low E string down directly on top of the 2nd fret and directly on top of the last fret at the body (the 16th). Using the low E string as a straight edge, check the distance around the 7th and 9th frets. The string should just be clearing the frets by a hair.STEP 6 If your neck needs to be adjusted, gently loosen the truss rod, by turning counter-clockwise. If it is tough to turn, remove truss rod nut and place a small drop of oil on truss rod thread. WD40 or machine oil will work fine, but do not spray it directly on the thread. Spray a little into a cup and dab on a couple drops with a Q-Tip. Apply just enough oil to lightly coat the thread. Gently adjust clockwise until the truss rod nut is just snug, turning in quarter turns, until the fretboard is straight and flat. When neck is straight, the low E string will run flat against the top of the frets. Then back off 1/8 of a turn counter-clockwise for slight relief.STEP 7 Adjust action by turning the wheels on the ABR or Tune-O-Matic bridge. From the top of the first fret to the bottom of the string, from high E to low E, the approximate measurements will be: high E: 1/64”, B: 1/64”, G: 1.5/64”, D: 1.5/64”, A: 2/64”, low E: 2/64”. At the 12th fret, the approximate measurements will be 3/64” for the high E string, and 5/64” for the low E string. Tailpiece should be flush to the body when using an ABR-1, and slightly higher for a Tune-O-Matic (just enough for the strings to clear the back of the bridge).STEP 8 Set intonation screws on the bridge. To rough in the intonation, center the low E and high E saddles to the post holes in the bridge. The A string will be 2/32” closer to the nut than the low E and the D string will be 2/32” closer to the nut than the A. The B string will be 2/32” closer to the bridge than the high E and the G string will be 2/32” closer to the bride than the B string. These measurements will get you in the ball park. Intonation will vary with instruments and string gauges.STEP 9 Final intonation. Adjust in playing position! Plugged into a tuner, sound the string open and then fret the string at the 12th fret. The note should be exactly one octave higher when fretted. If the note is sharp at the 12th fret, adjust the saddle so it is closer to the tailpiece. If it is flat, adjust the saddle to be closer to the nut.STEP 10 Set pickup height. Fret on the last fret of the guitar. Pole pieces should be 3/64” from the bottom of the string.STEP 11 Plug in, play, enjoy Edited April 24, 2020 by Black Dog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanm Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 @Black Dog awesome, thanks so much! I'll read it over tomorrow and see what I can do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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