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switching to klusons on my j15??


PierreB99
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Hey guys,

I have a 2018 j15 in a walnut burst that I absolutely love. Though I am not a big fan of the mini grovers... I am debating getting cream color tulips with either gold or nickel hardware. I Know I would need a bushing kit and stuff for kluson but will changing to kluson reduce value from this guitar 20 years down the road? Has anyone done this tuner conversion and am I the only one that loves kluson on gibson acoustic?

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated!

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If it's just looks,  you can replace the buttons

https://www.crazyparts.de/hailwood/tunerbuttons/tunerbuttons/grover-rotomatic-grained-ivoroid.php

tunerbuttons-grover-rotomatic-elepant-iv

Schaller M6 180's should be close enough to drop in with no redrilling and using the same bushings

https://www.crazyparts.de/hailwood/tunerbuttons/schallerm6/schaller-m6-std-grained-ivory-buttons.php

 

TZ_1001.jpg

 

grover-mini-rotomatic-6-in-line-p153-274

grover-mini-rotomatics-205-series-3and3-

 

 

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1 minute ago, PierreB99 said:

thanks for the reply, i was leaning more towards kluson but then again holes wouldnt match up... i wonder if anyone has done this.

If whatever you put in and the holes match up, just save the old tuners if you ever decide to sell it, it can go back to stock.

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IMO, there's little reason to worry about how it will affect your guitar's value in 2040, especially with a mass-produced budget model like the J-15. I changed my 2008 J-50 tuners to Kluson using the replicas from WD Music Products (they bought the Kluson brand and all of their designs awhile ago).

https://www.wdmusic.com/media/Kluson-Catalog-2017.pdf

j50-2008-kluson.png

Not too familiar with the J-15, but if it has the big, ugly Rotomatics like my J-50 then you will need to do some work to make this switch, The Rotomatic holes are too big and will need bushings to adapt to vintage-style tuners like Kluson. This isn't too difficult, but a bigger problem is the "bullseye" marks that the Rotomatic washers leave on the headstock. I had to sand/polish them out, which many people probably won't want to try themselves. Yes, you also need to drill new screw holes, but that part is easy (although you could do a lot of damage if you aren't careful).

Was just looking however, and WD Music no longer has the acoustic tuners on their site.

https://www.wdmusic.com/brand-kluson.html?instrument[]=Acoustic+Guitar

Elderly used to sell them, but they are out of stock. Wonder what's going on?

https://www.elderly.com/collections/all/products/kluson-deluxe-tuning-machines-1

I see that several sellers have them on eBay however.

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Here are my original tuners. These are the full-size Grovers however, and not the Mini's that you have.

 

old%20tuners.jpg

 

As you can see from the photo I posted earlier, the 3-on-a-strip Klusons completely cover the holes from the Grovers on my guitar. Since the mini-Grovers are smaller I'd *guess* you would be fine but don't know for sure. You could try removing just one tuner to get an idea of how bad the "bullseye" problem is. It was very bad on mine, and required a lot of sanding.

Edited by Boyd
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15 minutes ago, Boyd said:

Here are my original tuners. These are the full-size Grovers however, and not the Mini's that you have.

 

old%20tuners.jpg

 

As you can see from the photo I posted earlier, the 3-on-a-strip Klusons completely cover the holes from the Grovers on my guitar. Since the mini-Grovers are smaller I'd *guess* you would be fine but don't know for sure. You could try removing just one tuner to get an idea of how bad the "bullseye" problem is. It was very bad on mine, and required a lot of sanding.

 

ok I see. your screwing hole is 90 degrees with the center but mini are at x degrees towards the middle so it is possible that it wouldnt be covered but I imagine there is some kind of putty that I could cap off the holes with. Anyway ill have to keep looking for options!

cheers

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it seems like these would be a drop in fit, at a 9.9mm diameter. Also looks like it would cover the holes from the mini's, since the longer side of the back part of the deluxe's would go towards the body of the guitar. right? correct me if im wrong!

 

 

 

135_SPEC.jpg

406_SPEC.jpg

 

 

Edited by PierreB99
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3 hours ago, Boyd said:

IMO, there's little reason to worry about how it will affect your guitar's value in 2040, especially with a mass-produced budget model like the J-15.

 

I won't say anything about the "budget" point, which is became annoying. J15 is "mass-produced" as much as any Gibson standard guitar. And definitely it doesn't seem overproduced like a J45, which is usually the first guitar that mommies provide.

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Unless I'm mistaken, the J-15 was the cheapest Gibson acoustic until they introduced the new Studio and G models recently. And yes, all Gibsons are "mass-produced" . I wasn't trying to put down the J-15, I would have said the same thing about a J-45. My point was just that (IMO) you shouldn't worry about how changing the tuners will affect the value twenty years from now. So just relax and "Be Happy". 🙂

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1 hour ago, Boyd said:

Unless I'm mistaken, the J-15 was the cheapest Gibson acoustic until they introduced the new Studio and G models recently. And yes, all Gibsons are "mass-produced" . I wasn't trying to put down the J-15, I would have said the same thing about a J-45. My point was just that (IMO) you shouldn't worry about how changing the tuners will affect the value twenty years from now. So just relax and "Be Happy". 🙂

hi five bro 😉

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It is yours and if you so decide to drag it behind a Mack Truck it is no ones business but yours. If you like those tuners rock em. I've changed tuners many times that are awful or just not nice looking. I want to change the tuners on my D-41. They are gold Schallers. I hate gold, and some turn real easy and some are tighter, but I do not want to f up the top of the headstock. It has the pressed in grommet. If it had the screw in type they would have been gone a week after I bought it. I've watched videos oh how to do it, but if a chunk of wood comes out I won't be happy.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper
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5 hours ago, Boyd said:

IMO, there's little reason to worry about how it will affect your guitar's value in 2040, especially with a mass-produced budget model like the J-15. I changed my 2008 J-50 tuners to Kluson using the replicas from WD Music Products (they bought the Kluson brand and all of their designs awhile ago).

https://www.wdmusic.com/media/Kluson-Catalog-2017.pdf

j50-2008-kluson.png

Not too familiar with the J-15, but if it has the big, ugly Rotomatics like my J-50 then you will need to do some work to make this switch, The Rotomatic holes are too big and will need bushings to adapt to vintage-style tuners like Kluson. This isn't too difficult, but a bigger problem is the "bullseye" marks that the Rotomatic washers leave on the headstock. I had to sand/polish them out, which many people probably won't want to try themselves. Yes, you also need to drill new screw holes, but that part is easy (although you could do a lot of damage if you aren't careful).

Was just looking however, and WD Music no longer has the acoustic tuners on their site.

https://www.wdmusic.com/brand-kluson.html?instrument[]=Acoustic+Guitar

Elderly used to sell them, but they are out of stock. Wonder what's going on?

https://www.elderly.com/collections/all/products/kluson-deluxe-tuning-machines-1

I see that several sellers have them on eBay however.

Stewmac sells three different versions of these, including the  Kluson-branded version. I bought a set to hold in reserve "just in case." These don't actually say Kluson on them, but Stewmac says they are Kluson. There may be trademark ownership issues.

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3 hours ago, Boyd said:

Unless I'm mistaken, the J-15 was the cheapest Gibson acoustic until they introduced the new Studio and G models recently. And yes, all Gibsons are "mass-produced" . I wasn't trying to put down the J-15, I would have said the same thing about a J-45. My point was just that (IMO) you shouldn't worry about how changing the tuners will affect the value twenty years from now. So just relax and "Be Happy". 🙂

 Btw your comment made me realize that few years ago the cheapest was the “legendary” J45 

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I put Graph Tech Ratio tuners on my 'bird as I love how smooth they are and not having to crank the smaller string as they all tighten at the same ratio. Didn't like the big chrome buttons so Stew Mack sent me some nice replacements. Did a little relic job on 'em so not so shiny... old and worn is my go to. I use circuit board etch acid as my go to as my instant "been here for years" treatment.

E13ELbr.jpg

Edited by Holiday Hoser
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  • 8 months later...

Dear PierreB99,

I had the very same idea, I own a J15 and just don't like the stock tuners. Those Kluson No Line 50s tuners look so much cooler. I Googled and this is where I arrived, so my question is, did you change them eventually?  Do they fit without drilling extra holes?

 

Edited by Poniklo
Grammar
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I did it on a J-45 Standard a few years ago. I prefer the Kluson 3 on a plate tuners, and they cover up the Rotomatic screw holes and you'll never know they were there. You'll need the 3/8 " conversion bushings from StewMac. 

As far as whether or not you'll decrease the value of the guitar 20 years from now...probably, but who the heck cares! You might not even be alive 20 years from now. Might as well enjoy the guitar and make it the way you want it!

Here's a tutorial thread I made when I did the conversion listing the steps, products used, etc. 

p7qOepo.jpg?1

 

Edited by sbpark
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7 hours ago, Brucebubs said:

Grover make a Kluson type tuner with a washer and screw-in bushing .

 

That is certainly easier, but one of the main reasons I replaced my Rotomatics was to get rid of those big, ugly washers. 🙂

Edited by Boyd
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I agree - a big ugly washer on the face of the headstock can be, well, ugly. Especially detract if you have an upgrade there - like the flower pot inlay  or an abalone Dove...  but the advantage to the washer  - I would assume - is to provide stability to the tuning post.  So, like a lot of things in life,  a trade-off.    

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3 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

I agree - a big ugly washer on the face of the headstock can be, well, ugly. Especially detract if you have an upgrade there - like the flower pot inlay  or an abalone Dove...  but the advantage to the washer  - I would assume - is to provide stability to the tuning post.  So, like a lot of things in life,  a trade-off.    

The bigger washer also cover the ring left from the Grover’s. I used the kluson deluxe on my J-50. Last  owner took off the kluson’s & added Grover rotomatics😱😱😳

the J-50 looks much better, even with the bigger washers. Headstock is lighter, & the tuners work great.

Got the Kluson’s from Slimt, for which I am forever grateful. Thank you again.

Edited by Paul14
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8 hours ago, Paul14 said:

The bigger washer also cover the ring left from the Grover’s. I used the kluson deluxe on my J-50. Last  owner took off the kluson’s & added Grover rotomatics😱😱😳

the J-50 looks much better, even with the bigger washers. Headstock is lighter, & the tuners work great.

Got the Kluson’s from Slimt, for which I am forever grateful. Thank you again.

You can easily polish out the indent left by the Rotomatic bushings. In the photo I posted above of the J-45 Standard headstock, that guitar had big, ugly Rotomatics and you wouldnt even know it ever had them on there. 

Edited by sbpark
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