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15 minutes ago, G Mac said:

People say stuff like this a lot. It shows a distinct lack of understanding of music. Jazz takes many years of dedicated practice to become proficient in its execution.

 

I understand music on par with any jazzbo, and I've DEFinitely played in front of more people than 6 or 7 jazzbos combined can ever hope to.   I've been a jazz pianist in my high school and post high school days, and I've comped quite a bit as a guitar player in the last 48++ years.  I didn't do it well, but I've sure done it.  The reason "people say stuff like this" is because it is funny.  This is exactly why most jazz guys are cursing and mumbling about stupid rock dooschbagz like me, you guys are just too serious to get out of your own way.

rct

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48 minutes ago, G Mac said:

People say stuff like this a lot. It shows a distinct lack of understanding of music. Jazz takes many years of dedicated practice to become proficient in its execution.

Its only Fusion jazz that I would say that stuff about.. And what you say is precisely why I cant be arsed..  I have neither the skill or concentration for something like that... 

So it takes years to sound like a huge mess which is actually a very precisely composed piece of music.

Like this..  I can totally hear and see the skill involved.. But I still just don't get it apart from being composed to be as complex and nonsensical as possible... 

I actually like my music to have resolution... 🙂 (mostly). This is like a jigsaw puzzle that doesn't really fit together to me.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, G Mac said:

I hope you're joking, Sarge. The two albums that you use as examples of dummy jazz are, in fact, wonderful records. Kind of Blue is the best selling jazz recording of all time and is anything but dumb. People often equate simplicity with stupidity and that is a dangerous mistake to make. As far as A Love Supreme goes, it was ranked number 47 on Rolling Stones greatest albums of all time. The musicians on both these recordings are and were considered world class.

 

People say stuff like this a lot. It shows a distinct lack of understanding of music. Jazz takes many years of dedicated practice to become proficient in its execution.

 

Lastly, the song So What on Kind of Blue has only two chords...I challenge you to learn it and play a solo on it that is even one quarter as well constructed or as interesting as any of the solos that are on it. That album was recorded with no rehearsals using tunes that Miles had sketched out only days before the sessions. Also, while Pete and Keith may both be famous and talented, I would hardly look to them to define jazz.

I'll learn it if you learn the Inca Roads guitar solo. I can't play trumpet so it's gonna take a while.

If any of you guys think I was slagging on Coltrane or Davis apparently you haven't ever read any of my sarcastic remarks.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper
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34 minutes ago, rct said:

 

I understand music on par with any jazzbo, and I've DEFinitely played in front of more people than 6 or 7 jazzbos combined can ever hope to.   I've been a jazz pianist in my high school and post high school days, and I've comped quite a bit as a guitar player in the last 48++ years.  I didn't do it well, but I've sure done it.  The reason "people say stuff like this" is because it is funny.  This is exactly why most jazz guys are cursing and mumbling about stupid rock dooschbagz like me, you guys are just too serious to get out of your own way.

rct

Yep

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The vid the OP posted shows a simple II-V-I which he (Glen Rose) explains in his next video.   I would practice chords round the cycle of 4ths/5ths (depends which way you are going), I found that to be most useful. So if major I would use the E, A and C shapes barred and play the 12 major chords round the cycle 3 times, so I had done each one in each different shape.   I can recommend it.

@Rabs - the original "Actual Proof" is on Herbie's "Thrust" album.  He has always been an incredible composer and some of his tunes are difficult to get into.  I still wonder how he  - and Wayne Shorter - thought them up.   On a couple of well-documented occasions they brought tunes to Miles Davis all nicely written out and he  looked at it and just used the 1st 8-10 bars!  "Nefertiti" and "Riot" I think.

img003.jpg

Edited by jdgm
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4 minutes ago, jdgm said:

The vid the OP posted shows a simple II-V-I which he (Glen Rose) explains in his next video.   I would practice chords round the cycle of 4ths/5ths (depends which way you are going), I found that to be most useful. So if major I would use the E, A and C shapes barred and play the 12 major chords round the cycle 3 times, so I had done each one in each different shape.   I can recommend it.

@Rabs - the original "Actual Proof" is on Herbie's "Thrust" album.  He has always been an incredible composer and some of his tunes are difficult to get into.  I still wonder how he  - and Wayne Shorter - thought them up. 

img003.jpg

The Miles doc on Netflix is killer.

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3 minutes ago, G Mac said:

First, rct, you lump me in with "jazzbos" who can't get out of their own way when you know nothing about me. Second, I don't consider you in a negative light at all. I'm not judging rock musicians...I make my living playing rock and any other kind of music that I can get pald to play. As I have only been playing for money for 42 years, you may well have played in front of more people than I have. Is that the metric by which you judge someone's musicianship? If you're lucky enough to be or have played with someone famous then I'm sure you've played in front of more folks than 90% of the rest of us and, if so, I congratulate you. Realistically, I think that perhaps you and I have similar experience, that is, unless you're famous or near fame. I apologize for implying that you personally lack musical understanding...my bad for lumping you in with a lot of other musicians that I've met.

 

I wasn't talking about learning Miles' solo, just the song itself. I will try to learn the Inca Roads solo...I'm sure it will be a mighty chore considering Frank's skills. Do you happen to know if it's improvised or written out? I'm glad you own the two albums in question. Perhaps you would agree that some of Frank's excursions exist in a similar space as the jazz guys do. I also mean no ill will to you Sgt. Pepper...I just feel that jazz gets short shrift from a lot people who haven't explored it as  players. Jazz demands a great deal from the listener (I'm sure you'd agree) as well as from the player. As for your sarcastic remarks, I've read a great many of them but, when you used those two albums as examples of dummy music, it kind of hit a nerve. In all honesty, I guess that Kind of Blue is a good record with which to wet one's feet in jazz...if you don't like that one, maybe jazz isn't for you.

Having said that...Rock musicians play four chords in front of a thousand people while jazz musicians play a thousand chords in front of four people. See. I know a jazz joke! Stand and Deliver!

 

I love Jazz. Took Jazz history in college. I have the tab of Inca Roads in my One Size Fits All book. How accurate it is I can't say. Zappa get slagged on cause he makes funny songs about dogs p-eeing. His musicianship and the guys he played with and mentored are some of the best. 

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4 minutes ago, G Mac said:

First, rct, you lump me in with "jazzbos" who can't get out of their own way when you know nothing about me. Second, I don't consider you in a negative light at all. I'm not judging rock musicians...I make my living playing rock and any other kind of music that I can get pald to play. As I have only been playing for money for 42 years, you may well have played in front of more people than I have. Is that the metric by which you judge someone's musicianship? If you're lucky enough to be or have played with someone famous then I'm sure you've played in front of more folks than 90% of the rest of us and, if so, I congratulate you. Realistically, I think that perhaps you and I have similar experience, that is, unless you're famous or near fame. I apologize for implying that you personally lack musical understanding...my bad for lumping you in with a lot of other musicians that I've met.

 

Yeah, I was surprised to think you were a jazzbo, I had not seen that coming, and I was wrong, so that's good.  Nothing wrong with jazzbos mind you, nothing a good romp through Green Grass and High Tides wouldn't fix.

I only used the in front of people to demonstrate that I have to know something about music to do that, as opposed to jazz guys who know everything about music and play for nobody.

42 years?  Punk.

I have opened for the aforementioned Outlaws, and I made a record with Billy Paul.  I can't think of any other famous people stuff I've done.  I used to communicate frequently with a few big name rock stars when the internet was new and young.  But no, I got nothin on anybody here, including you.

I'm not famous, but I have been recognized as far away as Florida and one time recognized as being in a band I hadn't been in in about 15 years.  I've used rct picks for a couple decades now and I gave one to a bar maid out by Spokane Washington in an Indian Casino.  One of my workmates told her I was Randy Travis.  I still get called Randy Travis to this day.

No apology from you is needed.  I can take it.  I tossed the joke about jazz out there precisely because I can take it.  Jazz is complex, difficult to do well, impossible to sell, and not something I've ever done well at, therefore I don't want to do it.  So have at it, I'm good.  And I probably offended you so I apologize for that.

rct

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12 minutes ago, G Mac said:

Having said that...Rock musicians play four chords in front of a thousand people while jazz musicians play a thousand chords in front of four people. 

 

😄  😄  😄  😄  😄  😄

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Well thank you, and I thought you were a rock guitar player in bands the same as me and completely missed the jazz thing, so my bad for shorting you.  We are the same and you speak from the same experience I have, and I respect you for that a whole lot.

Billy Paul was really good and really a mess.  We drank a friggin tonne of Iron City making that record.

rct

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17 minutes ago, G Mac said:

And, Rabs...What does "arsed" mean? Forgive me, I'm American. Also, I really like your guitars!

I think an arse is an a-ss in the Queen's English.

I watch some British TV shows.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper
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5 hours ago, rct said:

Hit a wrong note twice and make a face like it was just the coolest.   BAM!!!!  Jazz.

 

Hate to say it (hope the jazz police don't come back) but along those lines ...

If you hit a 'sour' note, immediately slide one half-step lower or higher and it hopefully will resolve and sound clever. 🤓

ducking-tomato.gif?resize=480,270&ssl=1

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I spent 25 years honing jazz chops until I realized it just wasn't working. Learned a lot that I incorporate into my playing. Funny... I love jazz, but rarely listen to jazz guitarists. That said, I've worn out a few Kenny Burrell albums in my day.

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