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bhak1

ID/Authenticity of 4 Gibsons

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Hello,

I'm looking for some help regarding 4 Gibsons that my recently deceased Uncle left behind. His significant other wants to sell the guitars and being the only other guitar player in the family it's fallen on me to figure out what they are and help. I tried a Les Paul fan website a few days ago and was told that 2 of them are Chinese fakes making the selling of them something I'm not comfortable with. While we believe this is totally possible with the one guitar, with the other one it's surprising because by all accounts he bought it new and it and was highly prized by him. He played for over 50 years and owned over 30 guitars at the time of his passing, mostly Rickenbackers but several Fenders and Gretches as well in addition to these 4 Gibsons. I'm posting the photos of all 4 below, I have serial numbers that I can provide if that's helpful. Any help regarding the model and whether or not it looks real would be really helpful

 

Guitar 20.JPEG

Guitar 22.JPEG

Guitar 27.JPEG

Guiter 21.JPEG

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I'm not that knowledgeable, but that 3rd LP looks funny. The body shape.

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There are many knowledgeable members on here who, I'm sure will help you but I'm pretty sure they will need more detailed photo's.  Don't disclose the serial numbers publicly on here but it will be well worth contacting Gibson service with them, they are usually very helpful.

Good luck 

  • Confused 1

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2 hours ago, IanHenry said:

There are many knowledgeable members on here who, I'm sure will help you but I'm pretty sure they will need more detailed photo's.  Don't disclose the serial numbers publicly on here but it will be well worth contacting Gibson service with them, they are usually very helpful.

Good luck 

There is no good reason not to post the s/ns other that to hid a fake.  Quite the contrary, posting a pic of the s/n can help authentic it or show that it is a fake.  I say a pic because actually seeing the s/n cab be most helpful.  A lot more so than just posting the numbers.

And if the op wants to cut to the chase, call or write Gibson with the s/ns and they will tell you what it is.  If they are legit.

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Difficult to see from these pics unfortunately - they seem to be slightly elongated, but -

I also think the 3rd one is dodgy; do the bridge posts have screw slots in the top? If so that is a giveaway, Gibsons do not have that.

The 2nd one is a LP Custom and the fret ends should be covered by the binding - 'nibs'.  If not, it has either been refretted or may be a fake.

A look under the truss rod cover will also tell; if the truss rod adjust is a socket for a hex wrench then it's very likely a fake.

Good luck!

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There seems to be a lot of extra space in between the tail stop and bridge on 2 of the Lester's and the pick guards don't look right on them either. The Truss Rod Cover on the red on looks wrong. The inlay on the red on on the first fret looks off, but it could just be a trick of the light, Take off the back  plate and see it it has Gibson pots, and the TRC to see what it looks like.

I'm not gonna say fake, but some stuff just looks off.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper

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1 hour ago, Wmachine said:

There is no good reason not to post the s/ns other that to hid a fake.  Quite the contrary, posting a pic of the s/n can help authentic it or show that it is a fake.  I say a pic because actually seeing the s/n cab be most helpful.  A lot more so than just posting the numbers.

And if the op wants to cut to the chase, call or write Gibson with the s/ns and they will tell you what it is.  If they are legit.

So part of the complication here is the guitars are out of state and his girl friend has since moved out of the his place, the pictures And serial numbers are what she took/wrote down before she left. Interestingly the Gibson serial numbers all check out on the online databases but some of the serial numbers she gave me for the Rics, Fenders and Gretches aren’t matching up well. My mom is going out there this week so I can have her take more pictures or video chat me while she’s there. I hope to be able to check the serials on the actual guitars.

Given the feedback I’m getting from you guys, I’m also willing to be a little less vague than I was initially when I wanted to avoid any bias; the red and sort of honey burst ones are the two that guys on the LP forum said we’re “Chibsons.” The honey colored one is the one that I am  inclined to believe could be a fake while the red custom is the one that we all thought he had bought new and has had for a while. On the other forum they seemed to think the studio was real and I assume the Chinese aren’t bothering with cranking out fake DC specials, but correct me if I’m wrong.

I did call Gibson yesterday before posting this. They said the serial on the red custom wasn’t coming back but they suggested I email them pics. I haven’t heard back from them yet.

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How hard is it to get a real serial number and re-use it (cause that is what they do). Then when you run it, it comes back as a legit number. Serial number is not the be all do all to determine if real or fake. The Chinese are sneaky.

Reading the sentence you just posted about the red one, now  I'm suspecting  even more that at lest the red Lesters is fake. Double Cuts I know not much about.  I've owned a few Lesters in my day, as many here have.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper

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19 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

How hard is it to get a real serial number and re-use it (cause that is what they do). Then when you run it, it comes back as a legit number. Serial number is not the be all do all to determine if real or fake. The Chinese are sneaky.

Reading the sentence you just posted about the red one, now  I'm suspecting  even more that at lest the red Lesters is fake. Double Cuts I know not much about.  I've owned a few Lesters in my day, as many here have.

Yeah I hear you about the serial numbers, just still very surprised about that red custom as I don't think he even knew it was fake. Or maybe he did and just kept it to himself. You don't think the honeyburst looks funny though? My mom tells me that she even thinks he told her that that one was a fake but it's been years and she's not 100%. The red one is the one that everyone says was one of his favs.

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The fretboard on the red one - a LP Custom usually has an ebony (or richlite) fretboard, almost always black.

The board on the one in the pic looks like rosewood.

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7 hours ago, jdgm said:

The fretboard on the red one - a LP Custom usually has an ebony (or richlite) fretboard, almost always black.

The board on the one in the pic looks like rosewood.

That's a really good point. Damn it's frustrating and sad on so many levels to not just be able to call him up with all of my guitar questions as I did for years. If he's out there somewhere and can see this I hope he's having a good laugh. The more I think about it he must have known. Plus he was always a self described "Ric and Tele guy" that had a Mexican Strat and these in his collection only "because you have to" in his own words.

Do you guys think the Studio and Special look legit?

 

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8 hours ago, bhak1 said:

Do you guys think the Studio and Special look legit?

 

They look ok to me though I'm no expert.....!

The main thing is that Studios and Specials are far less likely to be faked as they are much cheaper - at least half the price - of a top line LP.

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23 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

How hard is it to get a real serial number and re-use it (cause that is what they do). Then when you run it, it comes back as a legit number. Serial number is not the be all do all to determine if real or fake. The Chinese are sneaky.

That is a good point and should be considered.  But the s/n (both the number itself and how it appears) is a good starting point for authentication.   Not the end, but the beginning.  That is a process of elimination, and often will reveal that it is not legit, case closed.  No need to scrutinize further.  If the s/n passes muster, then go into the other details.

I'm not under the impressing that the cheap Chinese knock offs you see are being faked to the degree of having authentic s/n.  Nor are all the details that exact.  I don't think they intend to need close scrutiny.    I don't think it has really been that long that the Chinese have been mass producing the knock offs.   Before the internet, I'd think that all fakes were "hand made" modifications of existing guitars.

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1 hour ago, Wmachine said:

I'm not under the impressing that the cheap Chinese knock offs you see are being faked to the degree of having authentic s/n.  Nor are all the details that exact.  I don't think they intend to need close scrutiny.    I don't think it has really been that long that the Chinese have been mass producing the knock offs.   Before the internet, I'd think that all fakes were "hand made" modifications of existing guitars.

 

I agree.  There just weren't that many illegitimate actual fakes around before the internet.  Most were funny named, odd headstocked Fender knock-offs brought home from the East by our service members, and all were clearly fakes.  They could not possibly compete with the actual copies that were still prevalent up through the 80's.

Then came the internetz and the beginning of A Life In Pictures for many, many people.  Why pay 2500 for a Les Paul when you can pay 300, take a well angled picture, post it on the net and BAM! instant cred.  Remember that the newsgroups and early Compuserve and Harmony Central and all that were full of guitar interest groups, and those groups were full of pictures of guitars that the owners were rightfully proud of, and it was the glorious start of our porn.  At that time only what we would think of as "real" guitar players put up such pictures, I'm using this next weekend I just got this one set up changed pickups in that one.  They were the things guitar players used.  The internet brought us bedroom players that were taking advantage of the simultaneous rise of guitars as just another retail object, price pointed at 20 dollar increments, best demonstrated at Mars Music, littered with sub-$300 guitars.  A good cheap good looking copy was a good way to Join The Club.  The real sadness is that for the most part, most of the time, the seller and the buyer both know what they are doing, it's not a mystery at all.

To the original poster, if you can get a person with a modest amount of guitar experience and have him/her look at them, they can pretty much tell you fairly quickly, even if they have to look up a few details themselves.

rct

 

 

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18 minutes ago, rct said:

 

I agree.  There just weren't that many illegitimate actual fakes around before the internet.  Most were funny named, odd headstocked Fender knock-offs brought home from the East by our service members, and all were clearly fakes.  They could not possibly compete with the actual copies that were still prevalent up through the 80's.

rct

 

I never brought one back. Now a cheap leather jacket from Korea oh yeah.

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48 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

 Now a cheap leather jacket from Korea oh yeah.

I still have mine, along with my fake Rolex.

Banana Lady!!! Okinawa, she was real. 

Edited by Big Bill

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8 minutes ago, Big Bill said:

I still have mine, along with my fake Rolex.

Banana Lady!!! Okinawa, she was real. 

I've been to PI about 8 times times and Thailand twice. There is stuff I am taking to my grave my best friend doesn't even know I did.

The stuff I saw in Marilyn's-A Go-Go in Pattya Beach, Thailand would make your jaw drop. And I hear Bangkok was even more decadent.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper

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