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Gibson ES-175 C what does the C mean?

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Is it crimson?  Or has it got a Charlie Christian pickup? 

I think that may be an ES-175 CC but whatever, it should be a great guitar.

I have an ES-175.  One of Gibsons finest and (these days) under-appreciated designs.

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I have a es137 c and the c stands for classic, not sure if the same applies though 

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Can't find any info on what a ES 175 C might be.  When the guitar first came out it had a single pickup, and later a second pickup was added thus a designation of ES 175 D (for dual pickups).  The last reference to that model was about 2016 when they did a replica of a '59 ES 175 with two pickups.  Can't find any reference as to what a C might mean?  I have never heard of Gibson putting a letter in the model to describe a neck shape so I don't think that is it.  In the olden days a C stood for cutaway, but as far as I know the 175 always had a cutaway so that's probably not it either.  I had an ES 125TC which stood for "thinline, cutaway" as opposed to the prior model with no cutaway.  

It's probably something pretty obvious that we are all over thinking 😧

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Like @Eades said, in the 137 the C stands for Classic and there's even a big "C" inlaid at the 12th fret, but of course Gibson being Gibson they also made the Custom version (which in case you didn't notice also starts with "C" haha!). Both models were built at the Memphis "C"ustom Shop so there's rumor it also stands for that...

 

Sigh. 

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21 hours ago, alphasports said:

Like @Eades said, in the 137 the C stands for Classic and there's even a big "C" inlaid at the 12th fret, but of course Gibson being Gibson they also made the Custom version (which in case you didn't notice also starts with "C" haha!). Both models were built at the Memphis "C"ustom Shop so there's rumor it also stands for that...

Sigh. 

Yeah, except there was no Custom Shop in Memphis.  Ever.

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On 7/11/2020 at 1:51 PM, Wmachine said:

Yeah, except there was no Custom Shop in Memphis.  Ever.

Apparently debatable, given that most of the time even Gibson doesn't know which hand is doing what. If they spent more time on production and QC issues and less time suing other builders they might build a cohesive operation. But I digress.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/dumb-gibson-question-is-there-a-custom-shop-in-memphis.1845654/

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On 8/11/2020 at 1:25 PM, alphasports said:

Apparently debatable, given that most of the time even Gibson doesn't know which hand is doing what. If they spent more time on production and QC issues and less time suing other builders they might build a cohesive operation. But I digress.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/dumb-gibson-question-is-there-a-custom-shop-in-memphis.1845654/

You can debate anything, doesn't mean it does or may have existed.  There is good reason for this question to come up.  But the answer, with answers to the questions to back it up, is that there was never a Custom Shop in Memphis.  That's a fact, so debate away if you like.

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There was no physically separate custom shop in Memphis, but the facility generated Custom Shop models, with Custom Shop headstock logos and serial numbers that began with CS to designate them as Custom Shop models.

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17 hours ago, bobouz said:

There was no physically separate custom shop in Memphis, but the facility generated Custom Shop models, with Custom Shop headstock logos and serial numbers that began with CS to designate them as Custom Shop models.

Right, so they we "custom shop" by name only.  Which is totally misleading.  I don't think that was a fair thing for Gibson to do.  They were intentionally being deceptive.  It is hard to argue they weren't.  FWIW, this was also done with some Gibson USA models.  Even more deceptive there to me.

I do take exception to what you said, I don't believe any of them came with CS serial numbers. and the COAs did not say Custom or Custom Shop.   CS still means true Custom Shop.

I should also be noted that even though those Memphis models were not true Custom Shop, Memphis generally made really  great guitars.  Though made in the same plant in the same lines, those "Custom Shop" models, the Reissues, and the higher end models like Lucilles were really outstanding.  So even though they are not true Custom Shop models, they really shouldn't be dismissed as pedestrian models.

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8 hours ago, Wmachine said:

I do take exception to what you said, I don't believe any of them came with CS serial numbers. and the COAs did not say Custom or Custom Shop.   CS still means true Custom Shop.

Actually, your information is incorrect on all counts.  I try to be absolutely sure that the info I post is accurate, least we begin creating alternative "truths".  Here is what I can tell you based on fact:

-  I have a 2009 ES-339.  The serial number is CS 9XXXX (five numbers).  CS denotes Custom Shop, and the number nine denote the model year of 2009.  The COA that came with the guitar identifies the model & serial number, and states the following:  "The instrument bearing the serial number above was hand-built by Gibson Custom....." and continues on with lofty prose.  It is signed by Rick Gembar, General Manager, Gibson Custom Shop.  The guitar also has the Custom Shop logo on the back of the headstock.

- I have a 2010 ES-330L.  This is a 335ish long neck version, with a fully hollow body.  The serial number is CS 0XXXXX (six numbers).  The zero denotes the model year 2010.  All other information is identical to the details regarding the 339 above.

Now it is understood that this was essentially all fluff, and these guitars were built on the standard Memphis assembly line - but nevertheless, this indeed is how these instruments are identified.

But let's dig a little deeper and muddy the waters even further as follows:

- I have a 2011 ES-335 with P-90s.  This was a limited run instrument that carries a standard Gibson serial number (& no CS logo on the headstock).  But it did come with the exact same Gibson Custom COA, with model & serial number identified, the same Gibson Custom prose, and the same signature by the Gibson Custom Shop GM.

- Finally, I have a 2012 ES-330 VOS.  This guitar was Gibson's initial attempt at a very serious reissue of a '59 ES-330, and they were trying to nail all the pertinent details.  This particular model was highly successful in reaching that goal, and received a great deal of praise upon release.  In their reach for accuracy, Memphis used a stamped serial number, visible through the right-side F-hole.  The serial number begins with a letter.  There is no serial number on the back of the headstock, and no CS logo.  But once again, this instrument came with the exact same COA as the other instruments noted above, specifying it's origin as a Custom Shop model.

All of the above helps to illustrate that the utilization of the term Custom Shop was clearly a moving target at Memphis.  And it also helps to illustrate the conclusion I have come to after 49 years of being an instrument junkie:  Guitar generalizations are made to be broken! 

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On 8/14/2020 at 5:56 PM, bobouz said:

Actually, your information is incorrect on all counts.  I try to be absolutely sure that the info I post is accurate, least we begin creating alternative "truths".  Here is what I can tell you based on fact:

-  I have a 2009 ES-339.  The serial number is CS 9XXXX (five numbers).  CS denotes Custom Shop, and the number nine denote the model year of 2009.  The COA that came with the guitar identifies the model & serial number, and states the following:  "The instrument bearing the serial number above was hand-built by Gibson Custom....." and continues on with lofty prose.  It is signed by Rick Gembar, General Manager, Gibson Custom Shop.  The guitar also has the Custom Shop logo on the back of the headstock.

- I have a 2010 ES-330L.  This is a 335ish long neck version, with a fully hollow body.  The serial number is CS 0XXXXX (six numbers).  The zero denotes the model year 2010.  All other information is identical to the details regarding the 339 above.

Now it is understood that this was essentially all fluff, and these guitars were built on the standard Memphis assembly line - but nevertheless, this indeed is how these instruments are identified.

But let's dig a little deeper and muddy the waters even further as follows:

- I have a 2011 ES-335 with P-90s.  This was a limited run instrument that carries a standard Gibson serial number (& no CS logo on the headstock).  But it did come with the exact same Gibson Custom COA, with model & serial number identified, the same Gibson Custom prose, and the same signature by the Gibson Custom Shop GM.

- Finally, I have a 2012 ES-330 VOS.  This guitar was Gibson's initial attempt at a very serious reissue of a '59 ES-330, and they were trying to nail all the pertinent details.  This particular model was highly successful in reaching that goal, and received a great deal of praise upon release.  In their reach for accuracy, Memphis used a stamped serial number, visible through the right-side F-hole.  The serial number begins with a letter.  There is no serial number on the back of the headstock, and no CS logo.  But once again, this instrument came with the exact same COA as the other instruments noted above, specifying it's origin as a Custom Shop model.

All of the above helps to illustrate that the utilization of the term Custom Shop was clearly a moving target at Memphis.  And it also helps to illustrate the conclusion I have come to after 49 years of being an instrument junkie:  Guitar generalizations are made to be broken! 

Thanks, you've illustrated that the deception is even worse than I was aware of.  Not only a moving target, but inconsistent.   Sure, they had a genuine "need" to try to identify special models, ones that were supposed to be a cut above the average ones.  But their use of "Custom" and "Custom Shop" especially the sporadic use, was serving only their marketing and sales, and was doing their discerning  customer a disservice.  Understanding the models became quite difficult. 

 

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