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JuanCarlosVejar

1965 Dream Dove (Repaired)

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I was wondering what happened to that guitar. Thanks for posting this. He seems pretty happy with it. 

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That`s a beautiful guitar but...it was in the hands of a decent Luther ...and it comes back to the owner who is putting light gauge strings on it and tuning it a half step down or drop tuning to keep tension off the thing ? Come on ...if you can`t play that guitar tune 440 with light gauge strings on it..... it ain`t fixed !

Just my 2 cents worth .

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38 minutes ago, 75 Hummingbird said:

That`s a beautiful guitar but...it was in the hands of a decent Luther ...and it comes back to the owner who is putting light gauge strings on it and tuning it a half step down or drop tuning to keep tension off the thing ? Come on ...if you can`t play that guitar tune 440 with light gauge strings on it..... it ain`t fixed !

Just my 2 cents worth .

I think he said in one of the first video that he thought that this lower tunning was the sweet spot for the guitar at least in his opinion.

This guy mostly plays electrics so It’s pretty clear that by putting lighter strings on a 25.5 “ scale he is trying to make the guitar as comfortable as possible.It’s his guitar and he can set it up as he sees fit for his playing style.
 

The luthier did a great job in my opinion and it has retained the magical tone that it displayed when he first recieved this guitar months ago.

 

 

JC

Edited by JuanCarlosVejar

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Well I guess I may share some of my perspectives -- I have what may be an identical guitar, but maybe not.  Since I am stuck at home alone, this seems like an attractive activity -- I hope you don't mind.

As most of you know, my late wife and guitar collecting partner did mostly bluegrass for the past 30 years, but we were children (musically) of the 60s.  Thus we loved golden era Martin and Gibsons and we sort of became major proponents of 30s (mostly RW) Gibson slopes for bluegrass.  All  of these are really powerful guitars. 

But we also loved the milder music of the folk revival in the 60s.  Thus -- to the amazement of my guitar collecting friends -- we also wanted stuff from the 60s.   As always, we sought to collect only one example each of the iconic sounds of the period -- as defined my us of course.

So here is an old picture of most of our 60s stuff -- missing most of the electrics, a 68 D-18S and my wife's  66 D-21 -- her RW bluegrass rhythm guitar.  I guess I put the two Fender Coronados there because I thought they were pretty.😎

The Gibsons are: 59 LG-1 (the model I played in the 60s), 62 Hummingbird, 65 Dove, and 65 F-25.  The Martins are: 63 D-18; 67 D-35S, 68 D-12-35 conversion, 68 D-12-20, and 69D-35.  The missing Martins are the 66 D-21 and a 68 D-18S which I am sure were in use elsewhere.

xAJuCNj.jpg

 

One of these you may have seen me playing (strumming) quite a lot -- the 62 Hummingbird.  I used that guitar a lot because I love its sound, but also because it does not overpower the studio room so it could  be used with less powerful instruments to do some bluegrass (light I guess you would say.)

The 12-fret Martin "S" dreads were all folk instruments for us -- think Peter of PPM -- as were all the Gibsons.  For us the LG-1 and the F-25 are ragtime/gospel/folk guitars (eg Freight Train) and the Hummingbird and Dove were strumming folk revival guitars.

Well we never found a perfect use for the Dove, so it was not used a lot.  Maple is problematic in jams because it does not cut as well as mahogany or RW, although it sounds likes it should when played along.  I won't boor you with why that is true, but if did want to play lead on it, it would be a sonic challenge.  On the other hand, played solo the Dove has really beautiful tone.

Here is the guitar:

FaYPwmx.jpg82ibr8W.jpg

There is a major manufacturing change that occurred in mid 1965 that has a major impact on the value of 1965 guitars.  An easy way to tell is the measure the angle of the headstock.  17 degrees = old; 13 degrees=new.  Mine is new == most of them are.

Here are three examples including one where one of the songs is done both on the Dove and Hummingbird.

 

More later,

Best,

-Tom

 

Edited by tpbiii
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O yea, , , what ends well ends well. . 

I think one can hear this isn't a loud guitar, but it sounds exactly as it should. Have to say I dig the T-O-M just like the other alternative bridge/saddle Kalamazoo concept : The adj. 

What's more important is that the dude really loves the nature of the Dove and seems to have found his dream-version. He's already 1:1 with this guitar and actually was from the start. If he is an electric guy this acoustic will blend in perfectos - and as we hear, it'll do great as a solo thing too. What's not to like, , , hmmm maybe except for the gauge. 1 step up, young man ^ 1 step up. . 

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I think OP's guitar has a wonderful sound and I missed the part about the pickup but if its a mini IMO they are top of heap for several reasons! 

 

And as always the guitars/videos Tom shares is wonderful, he has one guitar that he seldom plays that is ( Again IMO ) the best sounding small bodied guitar 

I ever heard.  Thanks Tom 

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Yes, I have also enjoyed the videos.

 

I have to say that my 2005 Dove I bought from a pawn shop last year sounds not one thing like the one above! Modern Dove vs. 60s Dove, skinny, skinny strings vs my Elixir PB mediums! The old one is very 'woody' and 'dry' while mine is balanced, very full toned, 'wet' and a touch 'metallic'???

 

Here is a fingerpicked track I did a month or so back if you want to compare....:

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

 

Edited by BluesKing777
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On 6/16/2020 at 5:06 PM, tpbiii said:

Well I guess I may share some of my perspectives -- I have what may be an identical guitar, but maybe not.  Since I am stuck at home alone, this seems like an attractive activity -- I hope you don't mind.

As most of you know, my late wife and guitar collecting partner did mostly bluegrass for the past 30 years, but we were children (musically) of the 60s.  Thus we loved golden era Martin and Gibsons and we sort of became major proponents of 30s (mostly RW) Gibson slopes for bluegrass.  All  of these are really powerful guitars. 

But we also loved the milder music of the folk revival in the 60s.  Thus -- to the amazement of my guitar collecting friends -- we also wanted stuff from the 60s.   As always, we sought to collect only one example each of the iconic sounds of the period -- as defined my us of course.

So here is an old picture of most of our 60s stuff -- missing most of the electrics, a 68 D-18S and my wife's  66 D-21 -- her RW bluegrass rhythm guitar.  I guess I put the two Fender Coronados there because I thought they were pretty.😎

The Gibsons are: 59 LG-1 (the model I played in the 60s), 62 Hummingbird, 65 Dove, and 65 F-25.  The Martins are: 63 D-18; 67 D-35S, 68 D-12-35 conversion, 68 D-12-20, and 69D-35.  The missing Martins are the 66 D-21 and a 68 D-18S which I am sure were in use elsewhere.

xAJuCNj.jpg

 

One of these you may have seen me playing (strumming) quite a lot -- the 62 Hummingbird.  I used that guitar a lot because I love its sound, but also because it does not overpower the studio room so it could  be used with less powerful instruments to do some bluegrass (light I guess you would say.)

The 12-fret Martin "S" dreads were all folk instruments for us -- think Peter of PPM -- as were all the Gibsons.  For us the LG-1 and the F-25 are ragtime/gospel/folk guitars (eg Freight Train) and the Hummingbird and Dove were strumming folk revival guitars.

Well we never found a perfect use for the Dove, so it was not used a lot.  Maple is problematic in jams because it does not cut as well as mahogany or RW, although it sounds likes it should when played along.  I won't boor you with why that is true, but if did want to play lead on it, it would be a sonic challenge.  On the other hand, played solo the Dove has really beautiful tone.

Here is the guitar:

FaYPwmx.jpg82ibr8W.jpg

There is a major manufacturing change that occurred in mid 1965 that has a major impact on the value of 1965 guitars.  An easy way to tell is the measure the angle of the headstock.  17 degrees = old; 13 degrees=new.  Mine is new == most of them are.

Here are three examples including one where one of the songs is done both on the Dove and Hummingbird.

 

More later,

Best,

-Tom

 

Tom,

Always a pleasure to see your collection and hear it as well !

 

 

JC

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5 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

 

Yes, I have also enjoyed the videos.

 

I have to say that my 2005 Dove I bought from a pawn shop last year sounds not one thing like the one above! Modern Dove vs. 60s Dove, skinny, skinny strings vs my Elixir PB mediums! The old one is very 'woody' and 'dry' while mine is balanced, very full toned, 'wet' and a touch 'metallic'???

 

Here is a fingerpicked track I did a month or so back if you want to compare....:

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

 


BK,

Very Nice!

 

One major difference that will affect the sound is that the old Doved had mahogany necks (perhaps this gives the woodier aspect thay you mention)  Starting at some point in 1968/1969 the necks became 3 piece maple .This featured on the Doves through the 70’s and Bozeman has kept it going.

 

 

JC

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On 6/16/2020 at 7:06 PM, tpbiii said:

Well I guess I may share some of my perspectives -- I have what may be an identical guitar, but maybe not.  Since I am stuck at home alone, this seems like an attractive activity -- I hope you don't mind.

As most of you know, my late wife and guitar collecting partner did mostly bluegrass for the past 30 years, but we were children (musically) of the 60s.  Thus we loved golden era Martin and Gibsons and we sort of became major proponents of 30s (mostly RW) Gibson slopes for bluegrass.  All  of these are really powerful guitars. 

But we also loved the milder music of the folk revival in the 60s.  Thus -- to the amazement of my guitar collecting friends -- we also wanted stuff from the 60s.   As always, we sought to collect only one example each of the iconic sounds of the period -- as defined my us of course.

So here is an old picture of most of our 60s stuff -- missing most of the electrics, a 68 D-18S and my wife's  66 D-21 -- her RW bluegrass rhythm guitar.  I guess I put the two Fender Coronados there because I thought they were pretty.😎

The Gibsons are: 59 LG-1 (the model I played in the 60s), 62 Hummingbird, 65 Dove, and 65 F-25.  The Martins are: 63 D-18; 67 D-35S, 68 D-12-35 conversion, 68 D-12-20, and 69D-35.  The missing Martins are the 66 D-21 and a 68 D-18S which I am sure were in use elsewhere.

xAJuCNj.jpg

 

One of these you may have seen me playing (strumming) quite a lot -- the 62 Hummingbird.  I used that guitar a lot because I love its sound, but also because it does not overpower the studio room so it could  be used with less powerful instruments to do some bluegrass (light I guess you would say.)

The 12-fret Martin "S" dreads were all folk instruments for us -- think Peter of PPM -- as were all the Gibsons.  For us the LG-1 and the F-25 are ragtime/gospel/folk guitars (eg Freight Train) and the Hummingbird and Dove were strumming folk revival guitars.

Well we never found a perfect use for the Dove, so it was not used a lot.  Maple is problematic in jams because it does not cut as well as mahogany or RW, although it sounds likes it should when played along.  I won't boor you with why that is true, but if did want to play lead on it, it would be a sonic challenge.  On the other hand, played solo the Dove has really beautiful tone.

Here is the guitar:

FaYPwmx.jpg82ibr8W.jpg

There is a major manufacturing change that occurred in mid 1965 that has a major impact on the value of 1965 guitars.  An easy way to tell is the measure the angle of the headstock.  17 degrees = old; 13 degrees=new.  Mine is new == most of them are.

Here are three examples including one where one of the songs is done both on the Dove and Hummingbird.

 

More later,

Best,

-Tom

 

 

Ahhh Tom.  You cannot pay homage to the Gibson sound of the early-1960s folk music revival without a lightly braced B45-12 -  the "Walk Right In" guitar.  

Edited by zombywoof
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1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

 

Ahhh Tom.  You cannot pay homage to the Gibson sound of the early-1960s folk music revival without a lightly braced B45-12 -  the "Walk Right In" guitar.  

Yeah, the Rooftop Singers played a pair of those on that song. One was a lefty, one a righty. At least one (the lefty) was a trap tail, but the other might have been a pin bridge, not sure.

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1 hour ago, j45nick said:

Yeah, the Rooftop Singers played a pair of those on that song. One was a lefty, one a righty. At least one (the lefty) was a trap tail, but the other might have been a pin bridge, not sure.

 

The story I always heard was the first B45-12 was made for Erik Darling who not being able to find a good 12 string ordered one from Gibson for both himself and  Bill Svanoe..  Problem is Gibson had come out with the B45-12 in 1961 so the first ones could not have been built for the Rooftop Singers who got together in 1962.  Perhaps they got the first square shoulder versions.   

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We did some 12 string stuff in the 60s.  In fact, this is one of my first gifts to my new wife in the late 60s -- bought from Lechmere Sales.  I still have it of course.  and we did that song on it-- but not in a long long time.

zHHUOhF.jpga8ZkJL6.jpg

Since the 70s, we have had a nice 60s 12-string -- 69 Martin D-12-20.  They made a lot of these.

Pjm21eP.jpgQOzaqun.jpg

Walk right in, sit right down, baby let .... -- every time I took ours out I played that and HOUSE OF THE RISING SUN as a reflex.  Aina Jo performed HOUSE OF THE RISING SUN as a solo, but we had a high lonesome screaming duet that went well with the D-12-20 -- if you like that kind of stuff😎.

Let's pick,

-Tom

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If I were to use that Dove at all in the studio, I'd use it as a secondary guitar for rhythm or fingerstyle accompaniment to cut through, and complement, the mix a little (similar to an Epiphone Frontier-type guitar).

Edited by Leonard McCoy

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