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jaxson50

Was he the best guitar player of the 1960s

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Nicely said, Jaxson!  The "snapshot" analogy is very accurate.  For all of us, our lives are a snapshot or if we're lucky, a newsreel.

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17 minutes ago, MissouriPicker said:

Nicely said, Jaxson!  The "snapshot" analogy is very accurate.  For all of us, our lives are a snapshot or if we're lucky, a newsreel.

Look at a guy like Richard Thompson. How many know who he is? Us guitarists do, but almost every swinging d-ick has heard of Eddie Van Halen.  RT can play 5 different parts at once and get his nails done at the same time.  I loaned my best friend Shoot Out The Lights and he was blown away and  had never heard of him. When he returned it he told me he could not stop listening to it. I said "I know".

But is he the best? He doesn't suck thats for sure.

Now Lil Wayne he is first ballot Rock and Roll Hall of Fame material for certain.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper
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12 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

Terry Kath is a good comparison to Hendrix as both so much talent and more potential,   I like many of my generation were close in age to the artist that emerged during the 60s and since. ,it is looking at a black and white snapshot from a time long removed from the present.  And the artist that died young are frozen in time.  Cut down and therefore locked into that level of artistry they had reached. 

Think of Prince, had he joined the 27 club, (died at age 27) look what we would have missed. And he would have been one of those black and white snapshots forever frozen in time.

Hank Garland, perfect example,  he was on top of the world,  no question one of the hottest players, in demand by all the biggest stars of the time a car accident leaves him crippled with a severe brain injury.  He lives in obscurity and fades away. Had it not been for that crash, the sky was the limit,. 

It's just the way it is, guys like Hendrix are so much more rare , not because they played well, it was an entire package, The Experience.  He changed the way other artist approached music. Technically he still had room for growth,  that was part of the intrigue of Jimi, we all knew he was going to blow our mind with his next release. 

Till he couldn't,  so now he is the bell bottom wearing whah whah  guy with stacks of Marshall amp and flaming strats 

Showmanship was his power, sadly  his snapshot will  always be what is in the four records he released.

Same with Kath. Garland,  Morrison,  and others

Yup, totally agree..

No one knows what would have happened with Hendrix.. All we have is what he did in just those few short years (well as a band leader anyway)...   Theres stuff about him playing with people like Miles Davis... In that interview I posted he wanted to do it all.. He wanted to be in the Experience again, wanted to be just a guitarist in a band and  talks about doing some big band music...

Who the hell knows..  

I have heard people say about Hendrix, things like, ohh he wasnt that great, just one of the first to put it all together like that and get noticed for it  But thats the point. He was the one who showed the world what can be done on an electric guitar, and he was still just starting.. We never got to see what more he could have been capable of. 

Could he like a lot of 60s & 70s artists just have turned crap by the 80s? Possibly.   I would like to think not. As you mentioned. In my eyes he had it all. The playing, the song writing, the experimentation (with pedals and effects), the look, the showmanship.. And he just seemed like such a cool guy too.

I see Jack White in a similar vain to Hendrix in a way. Not in his playing but in his attitude to the industry and  his general work attitude. And like Hendrix talks about he kind of does it all.. White Stipes, The Raconteurs and The Dead Weather (where he drums). And along with that does loads of work with the music community like when he saved and catalogued all those old blues recordings...

Anyway.. Its just one of those things isnt it..  We wont ever know.

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The 60's music was highly effected by the development of the technology the bands were using. How to deal with playing in s stadium, small amps and house speaker systems couldn't cut it for a large roaring crowd. The first time I saw Blue Cheer, I couldn't. believe my eyes, a wall of Dual Showman's going from one side of the stage to the other. Not being used for just guitars but voice and everything else. Imagine walking up to wall of amps as guitar player for the first time and and hitting the on switch, then trying to control it. Ground shaking and vibration going right through you. A couple of power cords and  you are in awe from the sustain and power at your fingertips. By the end of the 60's we were getting large venue sound under control, but for the musicians that were introduced to the sound of a large system, there was no going back. Now we can simulate the sound with our 15 watt tube amps in our living room. The point is the the evolution of sound in the 60's and the players that were using it, will possibly never be repeated. 

Edited by mihcmac

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Dual Showman was a fukkin amp it was yessirree Bob's yer uncle.  Took three pedals to put a dent in that headroom.  Took three guys to carry each.  Controlling that mess was what made guitar players, it's how many of us still around learned to play.  Nothing beats stupid volume and 4 LPBs.

rct

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I still have a 70s silver face MV Dual Showman. 

Think I better get it out and use it - when gigging returns.  Social distancing = need  extra volume!

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Interesting that the thread began with George Benson. I'd have said the best guitarist of the 1960s was Wes, but then I wasn't born until the mid-70s by which time Wes Montgomery was long since in his grave. Do old records and grainy footage uploaded to Youtube provide enough evidence to make a judgment?

London in the 1990s (the place and time where I was young) had a greying, pot-bellied middle-aged geezer in every boozer with a pint of London Pride in his hand telling you about how Davey Graham was the greatest to ever pick up a guitar. Nowadays he's mostly remembered because he was roughly one half of where Jimmy Page nicked it all from - the other 50% being Bert Jansch.

I'd like to say these old geezers were right, but all that's left are old records and grainy uploads to Youtube. Besides, I doubt they saw him anyway. Davey Graham is like Nick Drake - long after the event it turns out he'd actually had live audiences of millions, all squeezed into the snug of a folkie pub one wet Wednesday evening.

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23 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

And I thought I was nuts lugging around a '69 Super Reverb. 

 

Until about a decade ago I had two Twin Mk IIs.

It was my dream to have them both running in stereo onstage, though this only happened in my living room for short periods at low volume.[laugh]

About 2008 or 09 I was loading for a gig and picked up my main Twin a different way for once.  I am tall and usually would just bend at the waist, grab both sides where the back was open and manhandle it up to my chest. Heavy and supposedly not the right way to do it but I never had a problem.  This particular time I decided to follow the H&S advice I'd been given at work for heavy lifts, and went down on one knee first.  As I stood up with it, ALL my chest/rib muscles down my right side strained or ripped with a horrible crackling noise.  Whoah! - serious intense pain which took at least 3 months to initially recover from and I still got pain for years after when lifting anything or twisting from the waist.  No more Twins for me.  Now I have a red-knob 1x12 Super 60 - and that's not light. I finally got a wheeled trolley a few years back.

The previous owner of my Dual Showman installed flight case-type sprung handles on the sides.  I never used tilt-back legs anyway and it's much lighter than a Twin II so I can still heft it.  It's a 2x12 combo; unusual as it's also UK 240v.  I think it may have been a special order.   One of the local guitar heroes, Kevin Smith from Unicorn,  always used a Dual Showman head with a massive Fender cab, probably the 2x15".   And a Tele of course - a very fine guitarist indeed.

The connection to this thread is that George Benson's current signature amp is a Twin Reverb! [thumbup]

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GBTwin--fender-gb-george-benson-twin-reverb-85-watt-2x12-inch-tube-combo-amp

Edited by jdgm
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Lord S - well put.

jdgm/rct - I popped into the local music store the other day and they had both the new Tonemasters on the floor. I picked them up and chuckled. [smile]

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Speaking of weight.... When I got out of the Army in the early 70's I decided to get a big amp, one that could handle wether I was playing guitar or bass. So still being influenced by the 60's I got an Ampeg SVT with two 8X10 cabinets, yep sixteen 10" speakers. The SVT used six 6550's and even though it had a split power amp it was best to run it with both cabinets, it was a lot to haul around. But I loved the sound and being in AZ at the time there were lots of opportunities to use it, including very large desert parties usually referred to as boondockers. At one of these I was setting up on a stage lifting my 300Lb head onto the cabinets and I lost my footing falling backwards with the amp head pinning my chest an knocked me out. My drummer was able to get it off me, from then on I left the head on the ground, great amp though.. Now I'm using two 26Lb amps...

I found a shot of my SVT with one cab playing my hot rodded Kalamazoo SG bass, this is 71 at Papago Park in AZ.

vHwik3Z.jpg

Micheal our Hendrix virtuoso playing a Weltron but also a Jaguar and a Strat using his Fender Twin head and a Marshall cab, Terry anything Baker using a set of Ludwigs, Me and Bob our Clapton expert on his Strat into a hot rodded Bassman head and a Fender 4X12 cab... There are several Gretsch PA cabinets scattered around like the staggered 4X12 cab.

Edited by mihcmac
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3 hours ago, 'Scales said:

Lord S - well put.

jdgm/rct - I popped into the local music store the other day and they had both the new Tonemasters on the floor. I picked them up and chuckled. [smile]

 

I know man.  I pick mine up and almost throw it over my shoulder.

rct

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5 hours ago, mihcmac said:

Speaking of weight.... When I got out of the Army in the early 70's I decided to get a big amp, one that could handle wether I was playing guitar or bass. So still being influenced by the 60's I got an Ampeg SVT with two 8X10 cabinets, yep sixteen 10" speakers. The SVT used six 6550's and even though it had a split power amp it was best to run it with both cabinets, it was a lot to haul around. But I loved the sound and being in AZ at the time there were lots of opportunities to use it, including very large desert parties usually referred to as boondockers. At one of these I was setting up on a stage lifting my 300Lb head onto the cabinets and I lost my footing falling backwards with the amp head pinning my chest an knocked me out. My drummer was able to get it off me, from then on I left the head on the ground, great amp though.. Now I'm using two 26Lb amps...

I found a shot of my SVT with one cab playing my hot rodded Kalamazoo SG bass, this is 71 at Papago Park in AZ.

vHwik3Z.jpg

Micheal our Hendrix virtuoso playing a Weltron but also a Jaguar and a Strat using his Fender Twin head and a Marshall cab, Terry anything Baker using a set of Ludwigs, Me and Bob our Clapton expert on his Strat into a hot rodded Bassman head and a Fender 4X12 cab... There are several Gretsch PA cabinets scattered around like the staggered 4X12 cab.

You probably started a fair amount of sand storms with that set up!

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Talking about the Dual Showmans,  those could melt hair.  I saw Blue Cheer  with Eric Burdon and the Animals (that was what they changed the name to just before they broke up)  , at all places a drive-in theater in Palm Springs, it was an all day festival, the forerunner to what has become Coachella music festival.  This would be 1967 maybe 68,. We parked outside the Drive-in and sat on the rises next to the speaker posts, laid out blankets, and rocked out p, the headliners took the stage after dark and they was a light show on the screen, groovy stuff man!

One of the other acts was Sweetwater, they went on to play at Woodstock, I think they played the first night 

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9 hours ago, Lord Summerisle said:

Interesting that the thread began with George Benson. I'd have said the best guitarist of the 1960s was Wes, but then I wasn't born until the mid-70s by which time Wes Montgomery was long since in his grave. Do old records and grainy footage uploaded to Youtube provide enough evidence to make a judgment?

London in the 1990s (the place and time where I was young) had a greying, pot-bellied middle-aged geezer in every boozer with a pint of London Pride in his hand telling you about how Davey Graham was the greatest to ever pick up a guitar. Nowadays he's mostly remembered because he was roughly one half of where Jimmy Page nicked it all from - the other 50% being Bert Jansch.

I'd like to say these old geezers were right, but all that's left are old records and grainy uploads to Youtube. Besides, I doubt they saw him anyway. Davey Graham is like Nick Drake - long after the event it turns out he'd actually had live audiences of millions, all squeezed into the snug of a folkie pub one wet Wednesday evening.

 

 

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@merciful-evans

Yes, it's an interesting clip (from the early 1980s).

But I suspect it's a bit like listening to a solo Peter Green album (also from the 1980s). It likely doesn't contain the magic that made people excited in the first place. The Youtube comments tend towards pondering which particular drunken fracas might have caused the black eye.

If the time machine is available today, I'd prefer to go back to 1964 rather than 1981 to see Mr. Graham, whom I suspect was truly wonderful when on his game. Better than a 1964 BBC studio could capture.

 

Actually, if the time machine is available. I'd prefer to go back to 1964 than 1981, period.

Edited by Lord Summerisle
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1 hour ago, Lord Summerisle said:

@merciful-evans

Yes, it's an interesting clip (from the early 1980s).

But I suspect it's a bit like listening to a solo Peter Green album (also from the 1980s). It likely doesn't contain the magic that made people excited in the first place. The Youtube comments tend towards pondering which particular drunken fracas might have caused the black eye.

If the time machine is available today, I'd prefer to go back to 1964 rather than 1981 to see Mr. Graham, whom I suspect was truly wonderful when on his game. Better than a 1964 BBC studio could capture.

 

Actually, if the time machine is available. I'd prefer to go back to 1964 than 1981, period.

That was bad a-ss. I've never heard of him till now. The string bending was cool. He has to be in an alt tuning.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper

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20 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

That was bad a-ss. I've never heard of him till now. The string bending was cool. He has to be in an alt tuning.

A little bit of Over The Hills and Far Away going on there.

From the fingrings I would say it's Open D or possibly DADGAD.  hard to say  the audio sounds really poor.

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10 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

You probably started a fair amount of sand storms with that set up!

 

15 hours ago, mihcmac said:

Speaking of weight.... When I got out of the Army in the early 70's I decided to get a big amp, one that could handle wether I was playing guitar or bass. So still being influenced by the 60's I got an Ampeg SVT with two 8X10 cabinets, yep sixteen 10" speakers. The SVT used six 6550's and even though it had a split power amp it was best to run it with both cabinets, it was a lot to haul around. But I loved the sound and being in AZ at the time there were lots of opportunities to use it, including very large desert parties usually referred to as boondockers. At one of these I was setting up on a stage lifting my 300Lb head onto the cabinets and I lost my footing falling backwards with the amp head pinning my chest an knocked me out. My drummer was able to get it off me, from then on I left the head on the ground, great amp though.. Now I'm using two 26Lb amps...

I found a shot of my SVT with one cab playing my hot rodded Kalamazoo SG bass, this is 71 at Papago Park in AZ.

vHwik3Z.jpg

Micheal our Hendrix virtuoso playing a Weltron but also a Jaguar and a Strat using his Fender Twin head and a Marshall cab, Terry anything Baker using a set of Ludwigs, Me and Bob our Clapton expert on his Strat into a hot rodded Bassman head and a Fender 4X12 cab... There are several Gretsch PA cabinets scattered around like the staggered 4X12 cab.

Is that Pink Floyd Live in Pompeii?

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Yeah I was thinking the same thing - totally reminds me of the way they set up in Pompeii and also the heavy duty equipment.   

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19 hours ago, mihcmac said:

Speaking of weight.... When I got out of the Army in the early 70's I decided to get a big amp, one that could handle wether I was playing guitar or bass. So still being influenced by the 60's I got an Ampeg SVT with two 8X10 cabinets, yep sixteen 10" speakers. The SVT used six 6550's and even though it had a split power amp it was best to run it with both cabinets, it was a lot to haul around. But I loved the sound and being in AZ at the time there were lots of opportunities to use it, including very large desert parties usually referred to as boondockers. At one of these I was setting up on a stage lifting my 300Lb head onto the cabinets and I lost my footing falling backwards with the amp head pinning my chest an knocked me out. My drummer was able to get it off me, from then on I left the head on the ground, great amp though.. Now I'm using two 26Lb amps...

I found a shot of my SVT with one cab playing my hot rodded Kalamazoo SG bass, this is 71 at Papago Park in AZ.

vHwik3Z.jpg

Micheal our Hendrix virtuoso playing a Weltron but also a Jaguar and a Strat using his Fender Twin head and a Marshall cab, Terry anything Baker using a set of Ludwigs, Me and Bob our Clapton expert on his Strat into a hot rodded Bassman head and a Fender 4X12 cab... There are several Gretsch PA cabinets scattered around like the staggered 4X12 cab.

That's just a plain old cool photo!

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15 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

You probably started a fair amount of sand storms with that set up!

We were able to move a lot of air...

4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Is that Pink Floyd Live in Pompeii?

We found that when playing out doors with limited monitors that surrounding our drummer with our amps worked better apposed to setting up a wall.

1 hour ago, uncle fester said:

That's just a plain old cool photo!

Old school style for sure, what you can't see in that photo is that a bike group called The Dirty Dozen was chillin in the Ramada shelter as our immediate audience..

This park was fairly large and spread out with covered Ramada's that each had a concrete slab and AC power..

In this era Papago could have as many as 20 bands playing a day on the weekends.. Also there were several other parks, not mention building stages and using generators  out in the surrounding desert away from the prying eyes of the Gestopo.

Also in the center of the park is a rock formation called Hole in the Wall that formed a natural amphitheater, just needed to get power up there..

Papago-Park_1542.jpg

Edited by mihcmac

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