WHICH IS IT?

[MissouriPicker]

Is it a J200 or is it an SJ200?  I used to think it was SJ (for Gibson's super jumbo models).  Then, numerous moons ago, someone in here told me it was J200 and that SJ stood for the Southern Jumbo.

[tpbiii]

Yea, Gibson was not wedded to their own terminology.  It is a long convoluted story.

 

[Leonard McCoy]

The J-200 started life out as SJ-200 (SJ standing for Super Jumbo) but was, in 1955, shortened to J-200. Not to be confused with the Southern Jumbo model (also SJ).

[tpbiii]

Jumbo was the first slope -- 1934-1936

Jumbo is now almost always means SJ200/J200 -- that family.

SJ200 -- first caljed Super Jumbo, and now Jumbo

SJ was also used as an abbreviation for Southerner Jumbo.  But people called them Southern Jumbo and finally Gibson did too.

 

[62burst]

No history lesson here. "big '200" shouldn't confuse anyone in this forum. Now called superjumbo. Because the J-185 is a Jumbo, too.

Please don't use SJ when referring to the Southern Jumbo. You know who you are ; ). "SoJo" can be figured out, if needed.

[Jinder]

I've always known them to be colloquially referred to as a "J200" amongst musicians in the UK. I tend to call mine a J200 when speaking about it, but an SJ200 when writing about it. 

I guess I'm not helping 🙈🤣

[BoSoxBiker]

In my house, they are now known as Rosie and Mable.

[zombywoof]

The 1950 catalog lists the model as a J200.  

Willi Henkes also has noted  that Gibson returned to the second wide angle X brace above the sound hole and transverse tone bars not in 1955 as most believe but sometime in 1951.  He posted about it at one time in the UMGF Gibson Bracing Library.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by zombywoof

[slimt]

Super jumbo 200 , bound sound hole, ebony board , 4 bar pearl  bridge. Rosewood back and sides. Multi color dots on guard  and bordered , script Gibson , engraved heel cap . 
 

J200 Rosewood fingerboard and 2 bar pearl bridge, maple back and sides. White dot guard , block gibson .

Thats my take  

 

[kidblast]

not sure what you guys are talking about but..

The label on mine (See Avatar!) reads SJ-200  Standard

And.. according to our good friends at Sweet water  it is listed in on their Web Site and in their catalog as SJ-200

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SJ20VSG19--gibson-acoustic-sj-200-standard-vintage-sunburst

same goes for Musicians Friend

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-j-200-standard-acoustic-electric-guitar?rNtt=SJ-200&index=5

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by kidblast

[Paul14]

It’s always been a J-200 to me. Call it whatever you want.

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, kidblast said:

not sure what you guys are talking about but..

The label on mine (See Avatar!) reads SJ-200  Standard

And.. according to our good friends at Sweet water  it is listed in on their Web Site and in their catalog as SJ-200

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SJ20VSG19--gibson-acoustic-sj-200-standard-vintage-sunburst

same goes for Musicians Friend

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-j-200-standard-acoustic-electric-guitar?rNtt=SJ-200&index=5

 

 

It is Gibson's company and they can call the guitar whatever they want.   Then again, they have also offered j-45s with a natural top.   

Edited July 13, 2020 by zombywoof

[kidblast]

21 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

 

It is Gibson's company and they can call the guitar whatever they want.   Then again, they have also offered j-45s with a natural top.   

Heck ya! I'm not disputin!! 🙂

if the labe on my 2016 is to tell us anything at all, then it is what it is: SJ-200.   

I guess I just don't get the gist of the thread.  the official name or  ? or is there something that I'm not gettin?

did they refer to them as something else at some point in time  ?  maybe thats it?

Edited July 13, 2020 by kidblast

[tpbiii]

If you actually collect old Gibsons -- which I have done for a long time -- It is hard to use any reasonable phrase to describe them that is not also the name of a modern model.  So I can't say original Jumbo and not have people thinking it is a new model of some kind.  So I simply call (for example) a 1935 Gibson Jumbo actually built in 1935 -- but maybe they will name a model that soon.

Let's pick,

-Tom

[MissouriPicker]

Currently on the GC website as a J200, or maybe it’s a Super Dov.e...lol-

Edited July 13, 2020 by MissouriPicker

[slimt]

3 minutes ago, MissouriPicker said:

Currently on the GC website as a J200, or maybe it’s a Super Dov.e...lol-

Thats a good one.    And it might be.  Dont give them any ideas.  😁

[MissouriPicker]

13 minutes ago, slimt said:

Thats a good one.    And it might be.  Dont give them any ideas.  😁

BTW, just found another J200 at GC called an SJ200.....lol.....Perhaps it’s all part of “the Gibson Mystique”—-you’r e getting a great guitar, but you’re not sure what it is.....Anyway, before too long I’m going to get me a J200 or an SJ200.  No matter what you call it, it’ll be a big guitar.

Edited July 13, 2020 by MissouriPicker

[BoSoxBiker]

I didn't put 2 and 2 together for the longest time that some folks referred the the SJ as an SJ, not an SJ.

[E-minor7]

Good question. The following is a quote from Wikipedia and I guess it's what would be found the Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars book too. 

 

History

Gibson entered into production of this model in 1937 as its top-of-the-line flat top line, initially called the Super Jumbo, changing the name in 1939 to the Super Jumbo 200. It replaced the Gibson Advanced Jumbo. It was made at the Gibson Factory in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The SJ-200 was named for its super-large 16 7/8" flat top body, with a double-braced red spruce top, rosewood back and sides, and sunburst finish. In 1947 the materials used for the guitar changed to maple back and sides. Gibson changed the name to the J-200 in 1955. Due to the weak post-depression economy and wartime austerity, demand for this high-end guitar was very limited and production quantities were small. Early models made from rosewood are highly prized by collectors.

[slimt]

50 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Good question. The following is a quote from Wikipedia and I guess it's what would be found the Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars book too. 

 

History

Gibson entered into production of this model in 1937 as its top-of-the-line flat top line, initially called the Super Jumbo, changing the name in 1939 to the Super Jumbo 200. It replaced the Gibson Advanced Jumbo. It was made at the Gibson Factory in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The SJ-200 was named for its super-large 16 7/8" flat top body, with a double-braced red spruce top, rosewood back and sides, and sunburst finish. In 1947 the materials used for the guitar changed to maple back and sides. Gibson changed the name to the J-200 in 1955. Due to the weak post-depression economy and wartime austerity, demand for this high-end guitar was very limited and production quantities were small. Early models made from rosewood are highly prized by collectors.

I have a 39 and 40 SJ 200s. Both have Super jumbo 200 engraved on the heal caps, both have individual string saddles  6 on each guitar.  Both are Rosewoods. Not Brazilian  both are originals.    I do have 1 of each year of the J 200s ( from  48 to 55. Those have  double x braced top.  Maple Guitars. .   On a marketing point they were SJ200, basically just J200s  without fancy appointments . 

[tpbiii]

1 hour ago, E-minor7 said:

Good question. The following is a quote from Wikipedia and I guess it's what would be found the Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars book too. 

 

History

Gibson entered into production of this model in 1937 as its top-of-the-line flat top line, initially called the Super Jumbo, changing the name in 1939 to the Super Jumbo 200. It replaced the Gibson Advanced Jumbo. It was made at the Gibson Factory in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The SJ-200 was named for its super-large 16 7/8" flat top body, with a double-braced red spruce top, rosewood back and sides, and sunburst finish. In 1947 the materials used for the guitar changed to maple back and sides. Gibson changed the name to the J-200 in 1955. Due to the weak post-depression economy and wartime austerity, demand for this high-end guitar was very limited and production quantities were small. Early models made from rosewood are highly prized by collectors.

I never heard anyone say it replaced the AJ, which continued for four more years.  Most say the AJ replacement was the J-55.  The SJ200 was a whole different idea.  The FFT book is pretty loosey goosey with its "facts."

Best,

-Tom

[MissouriPicker]

2 hours ago, PatriotsBiker said:

I didn't put 2 and 2 together for the longest time that some folks referred the the SJ as an SJ, not an SJ.

Thank God!  Someone has finally cleared it up!  ..............Hey, at least we know it's one of two guitars.  It could be worse.  Could be a Martin CPCAWRWTA or CPCBGHWRA.

[E-minor7]

1 hour ago, tpbiii said:

I never heard anyone say it replaced the AJ, which continued for four more years.  Most say the AJ replacement was the J-55.  The SJ200 was a whole different idea.  The FFT book is pretty loosey goosey with its "facts."

Okay - don't know if the meaning is that the SJ took over as the top model. Could the AJ have been considered the king before the SJ appeared.  What we know is that there was a growing demand for louder acoustic guitars in the bands - and that the new biggie was thought to heed that call. That's what I've read anyway - admit not bein' into the deeper details about these giants. 

 

1 hour ago, slimt said:

I have a 39 and 40 SJ 200s. Both have Super jumbo 200 engraved on the heal caps, both have individual string saddles  6 on each guitar.  Both are Rosewoods. Not Brazilian  both are originals.    I do have 1 of each year of the J 200s ( from  48 to 55. Those have  double x braced top.  Maple Guitars. .   On a marketing point they were SJ200, basically just J200s  without fancy appointments . 

Sounds phenomenal ^ you may be one of the real experts here.  Are there any which really stand out ? 

[E-minor7]

According to Eldon Whitford, David Vinopals and Dan Erlewine's Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars, which take a severe look at the curvy king, it was first called Super Jumbo (1938), then Super Jumbo 200, simply because it cost 200 slams (1939) and between 1947 and now rolled back'n'forth between SJ-200 and just J-200. Personally prefer the (for me) well known last. 

[tpbiii]

1 hour ago, E-minor7 said:

According to Eldon Whitford, David Vinopals and Dan Erlewine's Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars, which take a severe look at the curvy king, it was first called Super Jumbo (1938), then Super Jumbo 200, simply because it cost 200 slams (1939) and between 1947 and now rolled back'n'forth between SJ-200 and just J-200. Personally prefer the (for me) well known last. 

I always warn people about that book because it has a lot of flaws. It was a great book for its day.   I used it extensively in the 1990s on making buying decisions on Gibson flat tops -- I have more than 40, many of which were acquired in the 1990s.  That book was a great work for its time -- but the authors did not realize as later became much better known in the 2000s -- that Gibson was so inconsistent.  In my case, of my 40 or so old Gibsons, 4 of them have information and estimates in that book which have since proved incorrect.  A reasonable mistake for sure, but it later took researchers like Jo Spann and Willi Henkes to fill in the very complex picture.  Even today it is far from complete, but much better covered now.  I actually own this one -- from pg 52.  The book says he may be the only rosewood J-55 made-- it is not.  I figured that out in half an hour with google -- they could not do that.

In general in the 1930s, none of the flatops were really at the top of Gibsons guitar lineup -- those would have been the archtops.  Martin too actually.    It is true that 30s flat tops changed the world, but it really took awhile for that to happen. 

I also have PDFs of all the Gibson catalogs from the 30s too, but if you take that as a good measure of what was happening that would be flawed too.   I don't have much interest in the SJ-200 family of guitars since they don't work well for me so I never studied them to closely.  Ir was a 38 SJ200 that Willi Henkes used when he proved it was EIRW.

😃😃

All the best,

-Tom

Edited July 14, 2020 by tpbiii