Which Gibson acoustic to get?

[rocky_raccoon]

38 minutes ago, Larry Mal said:

Good luck! Hope this helps. 

 

Thanks that really did!

[fortyearspickn]

12 hours ago, rocky_raccoon said:

 

I bought a Martin HD 28 and now I want a Gibson as well. 

 

I'm trying to understand -  your first thread  "Gibson Hummingbird Dilemma"  started on 6/15 asking for help choosing between a standard new H'Bird and a mint H'Bird TV.  Two days later you posted you purchased a new Martin D-28.   Four days later you posted:  

"I’ve already starting saving for a Gibson hummingbird or a Sheryl Crow.. 😂

ive not stopped playing the Martin though.. will need to get the action sorted as I prefer slightly lower. I’m also thinking lighter strings."

And you began this thread looking for help on getting a J45 type, or possibly an H'Bird.      

Without any additional insight - and not having a Martin - I'd suggest that after a month, you Slow Down and continue to get familiar with your new guitar.  What do you think it does well, what does it not seem to ?    Then consider  Jumbo, Dreadnaught, Parlor, long scale, short scale, tone wood and round shoulder or square shoulder.  Which general direction to look?  THEN consider models and not specifically a brand.   All the while continuing to save. You might wind up with something from left field - like an SJ-200.  G'Luck. 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by fortyearspickn

[Barstowsongs]

Curious to learn why the J-35 rarely gets a mention, especially the new historic models.  Do they have different bracing patterns/tone than the J-45?  I currently own a J-45 TV and a Martin CEO-7 and am considering a J-35, J-50 or SJ-200 to add to the arsenal.  I'm in a similar position in that I don't want a carbon copy of what I already have but also know what I tend to like...

The search is indeed fun!

[Larry Mal]

14 minutes ago, Barstowsongs said:

Curious to learn why the J-35 rarely gets a mention, especially the new historic models.  Do they have different bracing patterns/tone than the J-45?  I currently own a J-45 TV and a Martin CEO-7 and am considering a J-35, J-50 or SJ-200 to add to the arsenal.  I'm in a similar position in that I don't want a carbon copy of what I already have but also know what I tend to like...

The search is indeed fun!

Yes, they do have different bracing than the J-45 does. It's what Gibson calls the "advanced" bracing, like you would see on an Advanced Jumbo, it's moved forward a bit and somewhat lighter in construction as well. 

The J-29 also had the same construction, so you can think of the J-29 as a short scale Advanced Jumbo, and the J-35 as the mahogany equivalent. 

I like my J-35, and it is an excellent guitar for recording. It has a bright and metallic sound to it, I always tell people that "you can really hear the string and not the wood". It sounds bad to talk about it like that, but microphones just love it, and it sits well in a busy mix. It's also pretty loud. 

But it does not have the versatility that the J-45 has, it's a bit more of a one trick pony. It doesn't have that soft, dark and woody sound that you can find with the J-45. I like it with a pick, don't like it much for finger style, and for some reason it absolutely sucks in alternate and dropped tunings- go figure. I have a J-29 also and it shines in open C and C-G-C-F-C-E tuning, whereas the J-35 was awful in those and the only difference is the body wood. 

A nice alternative and a great guitar, but not the first one I would recommend. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Larry Mal

[Barstowsongs]

11 minutes ago, Larry Mal said:

Yes, they do have different bracing than the J-45 does. It's what Gibson calls the "advanced" bracing, like you would see on an Advanced Jumbo, it's moved forward a bit and somewhat lighter in construction as well. 

The J-29 also had the same construction, so you can think of the J-29 as a short scale Advanced Jumbo, and the J-35 as the mahogany equivalent. 

I like my J-35, and it is an excellent guitar for recording. It has a bright and metallic sound to it, I always tell people that "you can really hear the string and not the wood". It sounds bad to talk about it like that, but microphones just love it, and it sits well in a busy mix. It's also pretty loud. 

But it does not have the versatility that the J-45 has, it's a bit more of a one trick pony. It doesn't have that soft, dark and woody sound that you can find with the J-45. I like it with a pick, don't like it much for finger style, and for some reason it absolutely sucks in alternate and dropped tunings- go figure. I have a J-29 also and it shines in open C and C-G-C-F-C-E tuning, whereas the J-35 was awful in those and the only difference is the body wood. 

A nice alternative and a great guitar, but not the first one I would recommend. 

Thanks, you've put my curiosity in a J-35 to rest for now.  Would a SJ-200 be my best bet for something new and different?  I know it's an legend and I've always been drawn to the idea but I have no idea how I'll warm to maple back and sides over time.  However, I love my woody and versatile J-45 and the smaller bodied alternative with my CEO-7 so maybe a potentially brighter "strummer" isn't a bad option?

[Sgt. Pepper]

I'd say go try everything you think you may want. It may be hard to do depending on where you live. In my whole entire life I have only been in one store that had a SJ-200, and one store that had a Dove. J-45's are usually in every GC  and most times they have a H'bird as well.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[Paul14]

7 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Hummingbird or J-45/J-50 is the choice. (not necessarily in that order)

Though different they both represent the 2 main counterpoints to the M : Mahogany b&s and short scale. Plus of course versions of the quintessential G-voice.

For some reason I'm almost sure no one will suggest Dove. It's a possibility too, but somehow a step further out.  

 

 

P.S. - Been zooming a little on the HD-28s recently. They are among the strongest and finest acoustic guitars on the planet. You are on the right track. 

I’ll suggest a Dove!

[Larry Mal]

56 minutes ago, Barstowsongs said:

Thanks, you've put my curiosity in a J-35 to rest for now.  Would a SJ-200 be my best bet for something new and different?  I know it's an legend and I've always been drawn to the idea but I have no idea how I'll warm to maple back and sides over time.  However, I love my woody and versatile J-45 and the smaller bodied alternative with my CEO-7 so maybe a potentially brighter "strummer" isn't a bad option?

 

Hard to say... I have a Dove, and like the maple there. It's a wonderful wood and I would buy other maple bodied guitars (including a J200 if I could afford it). I don't know that it would be the first thing I would recommend to someone, though. If you are used to rosewood and mahogany, well... maple isn't that. 

 

The bass on maple seems to be pretty restrained, no boom to it... the bass is there, just not as loud as on other guitars. So it's not like maple doesn't put the frequencies out there (I am basing this off my only maple guitar ever, the Dove). It's nice in a way, I use my Dove in open C, and the low C is actually usable there and not flabby or pointless like it has been on some of my other guitars. 

Sometimes it sounds like a piano or an organ to me. 

Again, though, if you think you are getting a Martin bluegrass machine you are absolutely not getting that. It's also not a particularly loud guitar, despite the pretty big size. 

 I don't have a J200, but I have a J100, with bubinga wood. A nice guitar. Sounds good, and I do love the form factor of the super jumbo. I imagine that a lot of people might not. 

If I had the money, I would buy a J200, based on my experience with the Dove and the J200, I'll say that. Even sight unseen, I would order one... I guess I feel I know enough to make that decision. 

[Paul14]

57 minutes ago, Larry Mal said:

 

Hard to say... I have a Dove, and like the maple there. It's a wonderful wood and I would buy other maple bodied guitars (including a J200 if I could afford it). I don't know that it would be the first thing I would recommend to someone, though. If you are used to rosewood and mahogany, well... maple isn't that. 

 

The bass on maple seems to be pretty restrained, no boom to it... the bass is there, just not as loud as on other guitars. So it's not like maple doesn't put the frequencies out there (I am basing this off my only maple guitar ever, the Dove). It's nice in a way, I use my Dove in open C, and the low C is actually usable there and not flabby or pointless like it has been on some of my other guitars. 

Sometimes it sounds like a piano or an organ to me. 

Again, though, if you think you are getting a Martin bluegrass machine you are absolutely not getting that. It's also not a particularly loud guitar, despite the pretty big size. 

 I don't have a J200, but I have a J100, with bubinga wood. A nice guitar. Sounds good, and I do love the form factor of the super jumbo. I imagine that a lot of people might not. 

If I had the money, I would buy a J200, based on my experience with the Dove and the J200, I'll say that. Even sight unseen, I would order one... I guess I feel I know enough to make that decision. 

I have rosewood, & a bunch of mahogany guitars. I also have a Dove, & a J-200. I think a Dove is a nice addition to all the rest. Also you could consider buying used. I got my Dove off reverb for less than half the price of a new one. ( a lot less than 1/2). It’s a 2007, & looks like new. Just a thought. I know many people believe the warranty is worth the extra money, but I don’t! I have had many Gibson’s, & have never needed the warranty. The only guitar I ever needed the warranty for was a Guild. The body binding was coming off.  Even then, it could have been repaired inexpensively without a warranty.

[BoSoxBiker]

Good timing.

The low end on an SJ-200 Maple and an SJ-200 (pre war RW historic collection) are indeed different. I like the way LarryMal(pasted below) described the Maple Dove compared to other guitars for the most part. The "boom" is more prominent on the Maple in sort of a rumbling feeling while the RW had more of that edgy timbre to it. My best description so far is thunder. You get the powerful rumbles sometimes, then you get the somewhat more vocal type. 

1 hour ago, Larry Mal said:

The bass on maple seems to be pretty restrained, no boom to it... the bass is there, just not as loud as on other guitars. So it's not like maple doesn't put the frequencies out there (I am basing this off my only maple guitar ever, the Dove). It's nice in a way, I use my Dove in open C, and the low C is actually usable there and not flabby or pointless like it has been on some of my other guitars. 

 

[MissouriPicker]

To start with, I’d go with a different wood than the Martin.  A mahogany Gibson likely—-Hummingbird, J45, Southern Jumbo.

[zombywoof]

7 hours ago, Larry Mal said:

Yes, they do have different bracing than the J-45 does. It's what Gibson calls the "advanced" bracing, like you would see on an Advanced Jumbo, it's moved forward a bit and somewhat lighter in construction as well. 

 

 

It depends on what version of the J45 you are talking about.   Unless things have changed, the J45 Standard has rear shifted bracing.  The J45 TV (or whatever  they are calling the current version) has the same forward shifted bracing as found in the AJ although I believe the angle was not as wide as in the original AJs.  The J35 until the last year or two or production was a horse of a very different color when compared to the J45 which replaced it.

[Larry Mal]

Good point- I should have been more clear that I was comparing the recent era J-45 Standards and that last run of J-35s, the ones with the tiger stripe pick guard, not the most current one. 

[E-minor7]

23 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

 

It depends on what version of the J45 you are talking about.   Unless things have changed, the J45 Standard has rear shifted bracing.  The J45 TV (or whatever  they are calling the current version) has the same forward shifted bracing as found in the AJ although I believe the angle was not as wide as in the original AJs.  

Don't know if things have changed, but according to Polecastro's well known bracing video from 2012, the 2 have the X in the same position, but with different angles. The TV then had a wider X, which of course makes things end up near the point you are making : a looser top between the hips where it really matters.

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, Paul14 said:

I’ll suggest a Dove!

🕊️ 

[Twang Gang]

Late to the party, but I'd probably stay away from an SJ-200.  I had one and between the cumbersome size, and the quiet maple I don't think you'd play it much with the D28 sitting there waiting to be played.  Don't get me wrong the SJ-200 had a beautiful tone, but for it's size not much volume and sustain.  I'd agree with MissouriPicker that to differentiate between the two acoustics I'd go with a different tone wood than the Martin so probably mahogany.  Just my two cents.

[zombiewuff]

There seem to be several recommendations here for both the J-200 and the L-00. I would not argue with either, but I’m going to go on a little side-tangent.

About 15 years ago there was a very nice new J-200 in the ‘select’ room of a local guitar shop. I had played it enough on multiple visits to know that I really, really liked it. Finally, I was ready to pull the trigger. I was in the shop with the cash in my pocket. I played it again, and it was everything I remembered. As I hung it back on the wall my eye caught on another big maple Gibson. It was a J-185EC, with beautiful flame maple sides and back. I thought I may as well do an A/B comparison, you know, due diligence and all.

I went home with the J-185EC.

My recommendation to the OP is to try and find a used J-185EC from the early to mid-2000s, the ones with the mustache bridge and abalone inlays. The cutaway gives easy access to the upper frets, and the tone is amazing. Moreover, Gibson labeled this one the ‘Blues King Electro’, right in your wheelhouse.

I have an L-00 Blues King that sits on a stand right next to my desk. I probably play it more than any of my guitars, and love it. That said, nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than my big, bright, maple J-185EC.

 

[BoSoxBiker]

6 hours ago, zombiewuff said:

That said, nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than my big, bright, maple J-185EC.

To the OP - This beats analytics to any day of the week in my book. The smile on your face factor. We've talked about that on recent threads. What brings you joy? What makes you feel fortunate to be able to play? I've called it the "wow factor".

[12MoreGuitars]

I too have an HD28 and wanted a Gibson.  I settled on the southern jumbo over the J45 just because I think they are sharp. The martin is definitely louder and is just starting to open up but the SJ45 is sweet and easier to play as I am getting older. Also have had a couple of surgeries on my fretting hand. Ruptured tendons. I was out of commission for a year and now really appreciate the shorter scale.It took months of PT before i could make a fist again. I devoted all my down time to the  slide on my 55 Sherwood deluxe lap steel for quite awhile but now I'm enjoying the benefits of really getting some practice in. The SJ is just fine as the Martin just different. It's like having two girlfriends that are ok with each other.

[Jinder]

You need to lay your hands on some guitars...any Gibson will be different to a Martin (except perhaps a J60, which is basically an HD28 with a Gibson headstock...superb guitar, but VERY Martin), it just depends which flavour of different you want. 

I love the lemony, bold tone of my Dove. I record with it all the time and adore it. It is so balanced and sits in a mix so well that I very rarely have to EQ it at all. Very different to a Martin but no less magical. An SJ200 would be worth a try too. I love mine immensely, and have played them forever.

You can't go wrong with a J45/50 either. Such an incredible all-rounder that your Martin may end up sitting around though.

 

[olie]

I would bet that no matter what you get you'll forever be chasing that elusive "je ne sais quoi", so just get something and move on to the next phase-unless you like the sweet torture associated with GAS.It's worse than crack. A basic J-45 is not a bad jumping off point. Bon voyage!

[zombywoof]

I do not have any real opinions.  Hell, maybe I am easy but a Harmony Sovereign can still bring a big old smile to my face as quick as many others.   It did take me a while to figure out what I was looking for in a guitar.  There were plenty of false starts along the way as well as a few regrets about guitars I said goodbye to which in retrospect were not among the wisest decisions I have ever made.  Anyway, there are really only two kinds of guitars out there.  Those you like and those you do not.  As  somebody has already noted, the OP may just be overthinking the whole thing.

[kelly campbell]

19 hours ago, zombywoof said:

I do not have any real opinions.  Hell, maybe I am easy but a Harmony Sovereign can still bring a big old smile to my face as quick as many others.   It did take me a while to figure out what I was looking for in a guitar.  There were plenty of false starts along the way as well as a few regrets about guitars I said goodbye to which in retrospect were not among the wisest decisions I have ever made.  Anyway, there are really only two kinds of guitars out there.  Those you like and those you do not.  As  somebody has already noted, the OP may just be overthinking the whole thing.

 

 

Well said, I could not agree more, I too bought several along the way that were mistakes as time proved out but hey it was fun.  Enjoy the start and yes the j-45 is a great place to start.

[Boyd]

22 hours ago, zombywoof said:

there are really only two kinds of guitars out there.  Those you like and those you do not.

 

But the guitar you like today may not be the guitar you like tomorrow. 🤣

[Lars68]

For me, when buying guitars, there are factors beyond tone and playability. I also care about history and heritage. Owning versions of some of the most iconic models of all time, guitars which have been involved in creating the genres and classic songs I love, mean something to me. As a music lover, it's a way for me to connect with the past and the artists whose music have played a part in making me the person I am. I love singer-songwriter type music, and what is now called Americana, so my personal choice for two acoustic guitars is easy. I pick the ”big two”, the Martin D-28 and the Gibson J-45.

I think you need to ask yourself what your are looking for in guitars.  A working musician would have different needs and priorities compared to a hobby enthusiast. So the only thing we can really help you with is giving you a better understanding of the Gibson acoustic lineup, so you can make an educated choice. 

Good luck with your decision! As long as it's a Gibson, it will be fine 😀

Lars

Edited July 26, 2020 by Lars68