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The truth about Historic line


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On 10/29/2020 at 3:31 PM, J185cat said:

I have five Gibson acoustics dating back to 1994 and none of mine look ANYTHING like that.  My 2016 J45 is just immaculate in build execution and the easiest playing acoustic I have ever played.  On another thread I mentioned that I had purchased a Martin Custom Shop D28 same day as MissouriPicker got his J200.  I promised I would do a comparison to my Luther’s Choice AJ and that is coming.  I will discuss build quality in that and you may find it interesting.

I'm looking forward to reading your comparison thoughts.

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Since your goal here appears to be to trash everything Gibson, maybe this isn't the forum for you.  Why did you even buy a Gibson, since you think that only one in a hundred is a "fine sounding instru

That can’t be real - I think we are being set up. BluesKing777.    

First I need to say that several of our brethren here on the sight quite rightly called me out for my cockamamie theory I proposed on the first page of this thread. I did some research and found the i

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I've re-read the OP's first post and comments and have reached the conclusion, that contrary to his claim, he did come here specifically to slam Gibson.   Whether his guitar is a legitimate example or not - he has accumulated over a dozen direct, harsh criticisms of Gibson. And even the redline case!   He claimed he had the dealer inspect other Gibson's and they all had glue marks all over.  Yet no one here has had that issue.   I'm inclined to think there is something off in the original claim, especially being his first post. 

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I think what I'm reading is that this is not indicative of Gibson, but it is totally unacceptable. Of all the hands that have worked on a high-priced guitar - none of them are getting paid like dentists.  Let's not forget, these are human beings working in a factory up on Montana. So that could mean new people who are messing up, backups filling in for workers that are out, etc. . We are all hoping this doesn't become indicative of a bad year or era of guitars. 

In the end, I have faith that the folks at Gibson will continue to take pride in working on instruments that represent a significant part of American history. That spirit and excitement continues to us who buy the instrument as well.

 

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On 11/1/2020 at 7:01 AM, fortyearspickn said:

I've re-read the OP's first post and comments and have reached the conclusion, that contrary to his claim, he did come here specifically to slam Gibson.   Whether his guitar is a legitimate example or not - he has accumulated over a dozen direct, harsh criticisms of Gibson. And even the redline case!   He claimed he had the dealer inspect other Gibson's and they all had glue marks all over.  Yet no one here has had that issue.   I'm inclined to think there is something off in the original claim, especially being his first post. 

First I need to say that several of our brethren here on the sight quite rightly called me out for my cockamamie theory I proposed on the first page of this thread. I did some research and found the info they referenced from Gibson's made in Ren's period with the company. It's always nice to learn something new.

Second...I feel like I made the classic "rookie mistake" by taking this first poster at his word with his published pictures. Where's the proof this was actually a factory new Gibson? None of my five Gibson acoustics look remotely like that.

 

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Well my brand new J-45 is only a studio walnut burst, hardly top of the line.  But I can find nothing wrong with the fit and finish.  The set-up was spot on and the top and sides could be fine furniture.  Sounds great out of the box and only expecting it to improve.  I did buy it as a player not a collector.  And to be honest I have never looked inside other than to read the sticker.  I had never though of nor plan to inspect the inside of it as you have, so I'm not sure what I might find.  But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care.

Just because I'm not a collector doesn't mean I don't care what it looks like.  I paid a premium just to get this finish option.  If Gibson is focusing on keeping it's bread and butter customer base happy, maybe they are doing a better job than some think.

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I think the point of this is

this is unacceptable!!!

Not buying hide glue is hard to work with,

it a heck of a lot easier to clean up than anything else. Hide glue pulls wood together as it dries, unlike white glue.

my very first attempt at building a guitar cab with it. And tolexing the cab with it.

was my best work ever, because of how hide glue works. It’s nothing complex.

this a a custom shop?

it’s unacceptable is what it is, 

at 5k , it should look, and sound stellar, or never leave the “custom shop “.

 

regardless if it’s gibson or any custom shop. And at that price, this is unacceptable. 

 

if you support brand loyalty off the edge of a cliff.

I will never follow you...

few will...

 

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11 minutes ago, chipss36 said:

I think the point of this is

this is unacceptable!!!

Not buying hide glue is hard to work with,

it a heck of a lot easier to clean up than anything else. Hide glue pulls wood together as it dries, unlike white glue.

my very first attempt at building a guitar cab with it. And tolexing the cab with it.

was my best work ever, because of how hide glue works. It’s nothing complex.

this a a custom shop?

it’s unacceptable is what it is, 

at 5k , it should look, and sound stellar, or never leave the “custom shop “.

 

regardless if it’s gibson or any custom shop. And at that price, this is unacceptable. 

 

if you support brand loyalty off the edge of a cliff.

I will never follow you...

few will...

 

Have you read what people here are saying, at all?

No one is saying what was shown in those pictures is acceptable.

It's just that none of us has seen or owns a new Gibson guitar that looked remotely like that on the inside, and the OP seemed really intent on coming here to trash Gibson with some disturbing photos and a lot of hearsay.

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I clearly did read what was wrote....again pictures worth a thousand words, I slam Gibson when needed, like the tv j45 I had with laminated parts on it.....it was unacceptable and should have never left the factory. 

And was personally attacked by Gibson fan boys for it.

or the next high end vintage j45 I owned with wolf tones on the g note, all of them, it was sent back, but should have been destroyed, not sold for around 5k...

I understand the OP not being around to comment, and attacking him, is lame. Shame on all you doing this....

furthermore the lame excuse of hide glue, makes me think someone’s grasping at straws to defend Gibson at all cost, even above that that I know to be true, as a person who has worked with hide glue, and not just gluing wood together with it, but large tolex sheets.

 

it is what it is, and I know personally that Gibson makes huge mistakes, and passes them right on off to customers, it happens. And if you owned enough Gibson's or even played many, you know this to be true. I play racks of them when looking. It’s the best way to find a stellar example.
 

I also know when a j45 is on, or a les Pual, or any Gibson nothing will touch it. Also fine examples are not every guitar that has a Gibson label in it, some are horrible, some are stellar.

this is reality people. No need in trying to tell me otherwise, it’s delusional, and that is MY end of that conversation!

but attacking the op is pure, fanboy.

and does nothing to hold Gibson , one accountable for mistakes like what is shown here, or others I have seen, or owned, or neck reset issues I have seen.... It happens......

It does show a very odd brand loyalty.  

What motivates one to act that way?

retorical !

exactly why I rarely visit this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

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If you come in hot with roaring complaints and then ghost when a conversation gets started and questions get asked, i wouldn't say there's an attack of the fanboys happening. Those with a LOT of knowledge of Gibson products, including those that have bought guitars made alongside the OPs, rightfully scratched their heads and asked for more pictures and info because they agreed this was such a glaring failure on gibsons part. If people are here and post with some frequency, they are well aware of Gibson's consistency for inconsistency. Tom posted his original 36 to show that even that one had a few little things happening with it. 

I don't really understand the mentality of walking into a virtual group of enthusiasts complaining and then get upset and leave when they as you to clarify your point instead of sheepishly breaking out the torches and pitchforks with you and march to bozeman.

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Jumping in late here, but having read through the whole thread, I noticed the OP devoted a grand total of 10 words to how the guitar sounded: "Whats crazy, the guitar still sounded decent, but nothing amazing."

First of all, we know little about the OP's bona fides so we don't know if he/she actually has some basis for knowing the difference between "decent" and "amazing." Is he a backporch player or a gigging musician? Is she just starting out or a studio whiz? What other acoustics does he/she own? I know guys who think Taylors sound "amazing," and being a Gibson owner, I question their judgment. I've played Martins that were amazing and I've played some that still thought they were a tree. In short, I don't know the OP's points of reference regarding a guitar's sound quality.

Secondly, I've not seen anyone here defending the quality of work in the original photos. Frankly, I've never shoved a mirror in my J-35 (or the two J-45s I used to own) but in looking through the soundhole, I never saw anything that egregious. But you know what? All the guitars sounded great and they had that Gibson sound. Similarly, I've played Gibsons to die for and I've played some that made me sad.

Lastly, his thread title, "The truth about Historic line," is needlessly confrontational. One screwy guitar is not representative of an entire line. Most of us know that if we buy a guitar and find it isn't to our liking, we return it and that's that. I've never thought the so-so Martins or Gibsons I've played were representative of ALL Martins or Gibsons.

 

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On 12/22/2020 at 8:01 AM, cunningham26 said:

If you come in hot with roaring complaints and then ghost when a conversation gets started and questions get asked, i wouldn't say there's an attack of the fanboys happening. Those with a LOT of knowledge of Gibson products, including those that have bought guitars made alongside the OPs, rightfully scratched their heads and asked for more pictures and info because they agreed this was such a glaring failure on gibsons part. If people are here and post with some frequency, they are well aware of Gibson's consistency for inconsistency. Tom posted his original 36 to show that even that one had a few little things happening with it. 

I don't really understand the mentality of walking into a virtual group of enthusiasts complaining and then get upset and leave when they as you to clarify your point instead of sheepishly breaking out the torches and pitchforks with you and march to bozeman.

It appears to be a drive by Gibson bashing to me! None of my Gibson’s have anything like this. I owned many Gibson’s, other than the 5 currently owned. I’ve never seen anything even close to this. For that matter  I’ve never experienced anything like this with any brand I’ve ever owned. Smells fishy.....

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