string binding at the nut

[uncle fester]

Hi all - i do not have a dramatic issue, but I notice when I retune going from sharp to less sharp...  I sometimes need to pull on the strings to get them to retune down etc.  It's just a part of getting the guitar in tune every day, not an issue but got me wondering - is this normal or should the strings flow through the nut slick as can be, no binding up whatsoever, and maybe what I need to do is widen the nut slot a little.

In the discussion, folks mentioned using something like nut butter - but I'd rather address it in a permanent manner if possible.  It was also mostly electric users, and I was hoping to get the input of more acoustic focused? FWIW I typically use PB or 80/20 strings...  and go between 12/54 and 13/56

Thanks to anyone for input.

U Fester (aka billroy)

[E-minor7]

First move is to smoothen the grove to the max - but for h's sake remember to keep the right angle.                                                                                                                                                                                                           Then some suggest to try some pencils graphite (or what it's called). Get the tool as pointy as possible and set a little grey stuff in the slot.                                                                                                                                    I've done this a couple of times, but honestly can't tell how well it worked. Why not try it.  

[kidblast]

42 minutes ago, uncle fester said:

Hi all - i do not have a dramatic issue, but I notice when I retune going from sharp to less sharp...  I sometimes need to pull on the strings to get them to retune down etc.  It's just a part of getting the guitar in tune every day, not an issue but got me wondering - is this normal or should the strings flow through the nut slick as can be, no binding up whatsoever, and maybe what I need to do is widen the nut slot a little.

In the discussion, folks mentioned using something like nut butter - but I'd rather address it in a permanent manner if possible.  It was also mostly electric users, and I was hoping to get the input of more acoustic focused? FWIW I typically use PB or 80/20 strings...  and go between 12/54 and 13/56

Thanks to anyone for input.

U Fester (aka billroy)

Hey Unc!  The permanent fix is to have those nut slots filed properly.  Stew Mac has files, they aint cheap.  you may be able to get a less expensive set at Philadelphia Luthiers

https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/search.php?search_query=nut files&section=product

you basically buy a set of tiles to match the string gauge you are using,  prolly cheaper to look for a tech that knows the ropes and have them do it.

Edited October 12, 2020 by kidblast

[olie]

Also , when retuning drop the tension flatter than the note you're looking for and tune back up.If you tune down it could slip enough afterwards to go flat.

[Hall]

51 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

First move is to smoothen the grove to the max - but for h's sake remember to keep the right angle.                                                                                                                                                                                                           Then some suggest to try some pencils graphite (or what it's called). Get the tool as pointy as possible and set a little grey stuff in the slot.                                                                                                                                    I've done this a couple of times, but honestly can't tell how well it worked. Why not try it.  

I have had  good luck with E-minor7's suggestion of pencil graphite.  The straight forward thing to try at the outset.  

[RBSinTo]

Problems like this one are why God made Luthiers.

Yes, you could probably do it yourself, but if you screw it up, you might even need to have the nut replaced. 

Correct depth, proper angle, special files, proper lubricant: In my opinion, cheaper and safer to have someone who knows what they're doing handle it.

RBSinTo

[olie]

42 minutes ago, Hall said:

I have had  good luck with E-minor7's suggestion of pencil graphite.  The straight forward thing to try at the outset.  

I forget to mention it on my earlier post athat I use graphite on the nut slots every time I change strings.The softer grade pencils are better - e.g. HB or softer yet such as B.

[uncle fester]

1 hour ago, kidblast said:

Hey Unc!  The permanent fix is to have those nut slots filed properly.  Stew Mac has files, they aint cheap.  you may be able to get a less expensive set at Philadelphia Luthiers

https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/search.php?search_query=nut files&section=product

you basically buy a set of tiles to match the string gauge you are using,  prolly cheaper to look for a tech that knows the ropes and have them do it.

KB - this leads me to believe if I get the nut slots set up correctly, I shouldn't have to do any finagling at all, correct?  

Edited October 12, 2020 by uncle fester

[uncle fester]

All - thanks for the replies.  Again, this is not a huge issue, so just wondering out loud. Sounds like graphite is a good idea, but want to hear if it can be resolved w/o needing graphite etc... by proper sizing - then I'll think about what to do next...

[kidblast]

Unc,  Buddy, serioulsy,,,,  you're making this way harder than it needs to be.   Graphite, lubrication, whatever.. are all band-aids.  Eventually all that stuff wears down, you are back at square one. 

Filing the nut for 1. the right depth, and 2, the right width It is literally a 10 minute job with the right tools and know how.

Using a buddies files, I've taken care of at least 3 if not 4 nuts, it took longer to get the guitar out of the case, prepare the work surface, and put things away than it did to fix the slots that needed attention.

The problem won't go away till this is done.  Trust me, I've been at this for a loooooooooooooooooong time man.  that is your fix.

 

[zombywoof]

3 hours ago, olie said:

I forget to mention it on my earlier post athat I use graphite on the nut slots every time I change strings.The softer grade pencils are better - e.g. HB or softer yet such as B.

 

Same Here.

[Twang Gang]

What Kidblast said - get the nut filed correctly.  Gibson (especially electric guitar) nuts are notorious for binding because they are not cut properly - they are close, but almost always bind especially on the G string, but it can be any or all of them.  I am very fortunate to have a local luthier who can correct this in about 10 minutes, he has done almost every Gibson I've owned since I moved down here 7 years ago.  I think he charged me $20, but it is well worth it to eliminate the aggravation and tuning problems.  I've noticed even on my new Hummingbird that I just got from Bozeman there is nut binding.  I don't tend to bend notes as much playing that as I would playing blues on a Les Paul, but I will get it in to  him pretty soon to eliminate the problem.

If I bought a new Gibson and the nut did not bind - I would think somebody screwed up building it.

[BluesKing777]

 

Yep, off to a reputable luthier/guitar tech.... do it yourself and give yourself other string problems.

But as a matter of interest, you could get a string of wool or cotton and find where the burr in the slot is. ...... (if it is on the side of the slot, not the depth, you could run a bit of sandpaper back and forth a couple of times.)

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[Dave F]

I make my own nuts. If they hang up after I saw/file them I use these.

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/mitchell-abrasive-cord.html

.015" (.38mm), 200-grit, Mitchell's #60

Item # 6125

 

.018" (.46mm), 200-grit, Mitchell's #55

Item # 6126

 

.030" (.76mm), 200-grit, Mitchell's #54

Item # 6127

 

.055" (1.40mm), 150-grit, Mitchell's #52

Item # 6128

 

Mitchell Abrasive Cord, Set of 4

Item # 6129

 

 

Mitchell Abrasive Cord

Guitar floss! After using your nut files, smooth the string notches with Mitchell Abrasive Cord. It helps keep the strings from binding in the slots, for more reliable tuning.

Available in four versatile thicknesses, Mitchell Abrasive Cord also smooths the string notches in metal bridge saddles, to reduce string breakage.

12-foot roll (3.66 meters).

Tough Mitchell Abrasive Cord is coated with durable silicon carbide and aluminum oxide microgrit. It's great for smoothing the string slots in archtop guitar, banjo, mandolin, violin and resonator guitar bridges, to help eliminate string buzz.

• Cleans screw threads
• Deburrs metal and plastic
• Smooths fine edge details in sawn pearl inlays
• Smooths bridge pin hole string slots
•12-foot (3.66 meter) roll

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dave F

[E-minor7]

I have used this one a lot.

If a slot is too narrow, uneven or somehow binding, give it a few moves. But as said, don't f... up the angle and keep a piece of strong thin paper on the far side of the nut, , , ,                                                   eeehh, meaning the headstock.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by E-minor7

[62burst]

13 hours ago, uncle fester said:

Hi all - i do not have a dramatic issue, but I notice when I retune going from sharp to less sharp...  I sometimes need to pull on the strings to get them to retune down etc.  It's just a part of getting the guitar in tune every day, not an issue but got me wondering - is this normal

 

12 hours ago, olie said:

Also , when retuning drop the tension flatter than the note you're looking for and tune back up.If you tune down it could slip enough afterwards to go flat.

 

what Olie said is also what's been working for me.

Silly me- I thought everyone avoided coming down  to proper tune for each string. If it's only slightly sharp, I'm not touching that tuner button again (especially on cranky old tuners, or lower quality ones), but rather a string pull, moving from guitar body & up the neck a ways, is enough to settle the string into tune.

It's not just a "grab the nut files", or "grab the black goo for that white nut"- but. . . after initial string installation and being brought up to tune, have you ever wondered how much the length of that string along it's scale length changes (stretches) over the course of the string's life?

Edited October 13, 2020 by 62burst

[E-minor7]

6 hours ago, 62burst said:

, , , have you ever wondered how much the length of that string along it's scale length changes (stretches) over the course of the string's life?

Actually been spending some time thinking (not overthinking) about this - with absolutely no concrete result whatsoever. 
And you. . ?

[62burst]

40 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Actually been spending some time thinking (not overthinking) about this - with absolutely no concrete result whatsoever. 
And you. . ?

Yep. Well, just that this thread reminded me of a couple of things: of how string tension can build up at at nut (and saddle?), how it "tries" to equalize when tuning, as well as how this attempt at equalization, and string age, could also be at play.

'Suppose this change (how much more the tuner button gets tuned in the "up" direction) could be measured after it's initial install by making a paint dot on the string someplace where it winds around the tuner post, then see where it is, weeks/months/years later, when that string is pronounced "done".

[E-minor7]

3 hours ago, 62burst said:

Suppose this change (how much more the tuner button gets tuned in the "up" direction) could be measured after it's initial install by making a paint dot on the string someplace where it winds around the tuner post, then see where it is, weeks/months/years later, when that string is pronounced "done".

Good idea - but just set the mark(s) where the tr-cover ends. 

[kidblast]

 

4 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Actually been spending some time thinking (not overthinking) about this - with absolutely no concrete result whatsoever. 
And you. . ?

I've been thinking...

just how many terabytes of disk space on forums like this, discussing tuning problems on these guitars, would be saved if the Gibson factory guys took 5 friggen minutes with a nut file before they send their guitars to QC.   If Taylor can do it, (and they do,, as all of THOSE guitars come setup just about perfectly) anyone can do it.  Really... WTF???

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by kidblast

[olie]

2 hours ago, kidblast said:

 

I've been thinking...

just how many terabytes of disk space on forums like this, discussing tuning problems on these guitars, would be saved if the Gibson factory guys took 5 friggen minutes with a nut file before they send their guitars to QC.   If Taylor can do it, (and they do,, as all of THOSE guitars come setup just about perfectly) anyone can do it.  Really... WTF???

 

With any luck someone at Gibson management will read your post and ..ta-daaa ! ,the problem would be eliminated, leaving room for other posts asking for answers.

And the beat goes on.

[kidblast]

8 minutes ago, olie said:

With any luck someone at Gibson management will read your post and ..ta-daaa ! ,the problem would be eliminated, leaving room for other posts asking for answers.

And the beat goes on.

ha! I aint holdin my breath for that one.. 

[Seagull]

I would try a pencil, some folks do it every string change, lots of people recommend it.

I always try the least evasive solution first.

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, Seagull said:

I would try a pencil, some folks do it every string change, lots of people recommend it.

I always try the least evasive solution first.

yea.. graphite..   it makes a mess with white nuts.  not so bad with the black ones.

it's a temporary solution,...  but it does at least confirm the issue is the nut slot.  I've been at this 50+ years, owned dozens of guitars.. many gibsons,

there's only one permanent "Fix"   it requires a nut file, and wee bit of know how.. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by kidblast

[RBSinTo]

Another more permanent solution to the problem of nuts binding is to just wear looser underwear.

Sorry. I just couldn't help myself. Just too good to pass up.

RBSinTo

Edited October 13, 2020 by RBSinTo