LPCollector Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I've seen alot of posts that refer to VOS as if it were a model.......it is not! VOS is just an artificial patina of the hardware and a finish that never got the final buffing to a gloss finish. Sorry, just a pet peave................. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum so this is my first post. I was under the impression that VOS could apply to any model that is created in the form of (Vintage- Original Specifications). I guess in a way I agree with LPCollector. It is not a model but a remanufacture of an earlier version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I've seen alot of posts that refer to VOS as if it were a model.......it is not! VOS is just an artificial patina of the hardware and a finish that never got the final buffing to a gloss finish. Sorry' date=' just a pet peave................. Mark [/quote'] .......yes it is! It stands for vintage original specification, it does not just refer to the finish. VOS guitars have different wood, different hardware, different electronics, they are hand crafted in the custom shop and then slightly aged. Todays Les Paul Standards and Classics etc are quite different to the LPs of the 50s, most of the differences have come about over the years through cost cutting, a lot of people are prepared to spend top dollar on a guitar constructed the same way as the originals, do you really think people would pay $2000 extra for "artificial patina of the hardware and a finish that never got the final buffing to a gloss finish"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPCollector Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 .......yes it is! It stands for vintage original specification' date=' it does not just refer to the finish. VOS guitars have different wood, different hardware, different electronics, they are hand crafted in the custom shop and then slightly aged. Todays Les Paul Standards and Classics etc are quite different to the LPs of the 50s, most of the differences have come about over the years through cost cutting, a lot of people are prepared to spend top dollar on a guitar constructed the same way as the originals, do you really think people would pay $2000 extra for "artificial patina of the hardware and a finish that never got the final buffing to a gloss finish"? [/quote'] Again, you are quoting the Historic line of guitars. You might want to read this: http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=1721 See, I wasn't lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxx Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 The administrator on the Custom forum said the patina on the laquer is caused from a chemical process applied at the factory, just curious does anyone know what chemical could produce such results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd1030 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 the vos finish can be polished up to gloss rather easily. IMHO the Historics are the best guitars produced in the Gibson line the R7 and R8 are probably the best deals also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Again' date=' you are quoting the Historic line of guitars.[/color'] You might want to read this: http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=1721 See, I wasn't lying. Its you who doesn't get it, Gibson have dropped the 'Historic' title and have called the whole line VOS, if you want a guitar the same as the old Historics, ie with a glossy finish you have to order it specially, therefore, VOS IS the model. By the way, its rude to shout! idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPCollector Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Its you who doesn't get it' date=' Gibson have dropped the 'Historic' title and have called the whole line VOS, if you want a guitar the same as the old Historics, ie with a glossy finish you have to order it specially, therefore, VOS IS the model. By the way, its rude to shout! idiot So you are saying that the Gibson Admin and I are wrong and you are right? ....................interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Raising ones voice, to call attention to a point is one thing. But there is absolutely no need to start flaming and name calling by referring to someone as an idiot! It's also probably a pretty sure way to get banned. Let's back down on the tempers just a bit fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPCollector Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Raising ones voice' date='[/size'] to call attention to a point is one thing. But there is absolutely no need to start flaming and name calling by referring to someone as an idiot! It's also probably a pretty sure way to get banned. Let's back down on the tempers just a bit fellas. ??????? Did I miss something? I re-read this thread twice and didn't see the use of the word idiot anywhere???? I'm absolutely not mad.........I'm actually quite "matter of fact" about the whole discussion. What happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Uh, I have an 06 "R8 Historic Reissue Vintage Original Specifications" Les Paul. And that is exactly what it says on the, Certificate of Authenticity. It sure polished up something nice both hardware and finish. And, as I've mentioned many times on the old forum, it certainly sounds like the old Les Pauls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 So you are saying that the Gibson Admin and I are wrong and you are right? ....................interesting. No I am saying you are very wrong and the admin were slightly right. For instance, R9s are now listed as '1959 Les Paul Standard VOS' not '1959 Historic Les Paul Standard', if VOS was just an ageing treatment you would be able to buy standard production Gibsons in a VOS guise , likewise, other than a special order, you cant buy a reissue LP that isn't a VOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGod319 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 ??????? Did I miss something? I re-read this thread twice and didn't see the use of the word idiot anywhere???? I'm absolutely not mad.........I'm actually quite "matter of fact" about the whole discussion. What happened? i don't mean to but in, but AS90 said something right,and you got all over it,and now you're acting like you didn't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Its you who doesn't get it' date=' Gibson have dropped the 'Historic' title and have called the whole line VOS, if you want a guitar the same as the old Historics, ie with a glossy finish you have to order it specially, therefore, VOS IS the model. By the way, its rude to shout! idiot It was small, but it's in there. (I enlarged it to show it's location.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 What I am amazed at is that as an excess three year member of the "OLD FORUM" with more than 1,500 posts, I am a "newbie" here simply because I went to the initials of my old forum name and haven't posted here 'til now. They missed my enlistment date of 12/27 as well. But, it is nice to be a "newbie" at something anyway! Hope everyone gets this settled and back on good terms with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPCollector Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 [/size][/size] It was small' date=' but it's in there. (I enlarged it to show it's location.)[/quote'] You're the only one who has written those words......I did not. If you re-read what I wrote with a very matter of fact tone of voice.....hopfully, you'll see where I was coming from. That's the problem with the written word....the reader cant hear tone of voice. However, I apologize if I offended anyone.... it was truly not my intention. Let's look at this situation from another standpoint. If you have a Glossy finish Historic R9 and a Historic R9 VOS.......what do you call the glossy R9? They are the EXACT same specs for each guitar....I own multiples of both...they are exactly the same. (Gibson's and Guitar Center's web sites show that they are the same too). Only the finish is different. So what do we call the Glossy one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Welcome back hg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 You're the only one who has written those words......I did not. If you re-read what I wrote with a very matter of fact tone of voice.....hopfully' date=' you'll see where I was coming from. That's the problem with the written word....the reader cant hear tone of voice. However, I apologize if I offended anyone.... it was truly not my intention. Let's look at this situation from another standpoint. If you have a Glossy finish Historic R9 and a Historic R9 VOS.......what do you call the glossy R9? They are the EXACT same specs for each guitar....I own multiples of both...they are exactly the same. (Gibson's and Guitar Center's web sites show that they are the same too). Only the finish is different. So what do we call the Glossy one? [/quote'] Its ok LPCollector, I called you an idiot not thelivesoundguy, I wrote it very small to show that changing the size and colour of the text is a rude and patronising thing to do, but I apologize. Anyway, you are right that a glossy R9 and a VOS R9 are the same guitar, but the glossy one is now a special order, Historics no longer exist they are now called VOS. Vintage Original Specification means 50s specs, 50s wiring and 50s construction, not 'made to look a bit old'. So VOS is the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibis Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Glad we got that sorted! I'm glad to own my R7 Gold Top historic shiney. I'm working on my own patina, as we speak. I don't understand why VOS is such a big deal. I mean, one gig and the nickel on my pups started to dull from acid sweat. The whole relic guitar thing is a bit strange; I mean, none of those guitars will ever become original 'bursts, so why pretend otherwise? They are recreations of something that was made well, back in the day. My LP sounds better than any other that I've owned and sold. That's enough for me. My heroes simply bought a guitar and played it. Can anyone explain the psychology of making an aged replica of a '59 'burst? Surely the only person you are fooling is yourself? I'm happy to 'shut up and play my guitar'! It's tool after all, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Sorry AS90, but you are wrong. By your logic a pre VOS treatment LP that got the previous Gibson CS aging process 'Custom Authentic' would be a different model as would the Murphy aged ones. There have been no updates to the historic reissue specs since 2003 and that is long before VOS. Well there was one, the Customs now get tulip tuners. The CS decided to make aging a regular part of it's production, so it altered it's previous methods and named it VOS which is a little misleading they are more akin to Fender's 'Closet Classics'. Why they chose to make aged treatment standard, who knows? But now, they have to set aside parts and keep them from being aged, and then they have to spray on a little more lacquer and buff it to a nice shine, to give you a shiny historic reissue. They figure that is now worth $300 extra dollars. By the way, the historic reissues are not now, nor ever were wired the exact same way as the original 50's LPs, so that is another hole in your claim of "Vintage Original Specification means 50s specs, 50s wiring and 50s construction". Not to mention that they do not use hide glue anymore when making them and the bumblebee caps are modern reproductions, not the same company and caps as the originals, nor do they use brazilian rosewood fretboards, and a different truss rod, and a few other minor specs. The reissues are excellent guitars, I own several, but they are far from 'Original Specs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Im not saying they are exactly the same as the original 50s LPs, when I said 50s wiring, I ment cloth covered wire and fake bumblebees. What I was trying to show is that VOS is ment to be a model, its not just a Standard with a slight relic job. In one of my old issues of Guitarist magazine Gibson describe the 'new' VOS series as the replacement for the Historic line. How can you say it is not a model? If they start offering a choice of 'glossy' or 'slightly aged' finish then they would look pretty silly calling the latter 'VOS', I mean what does 'original specification' have to do with slightly ageing a guitar? Surely when they came up with the term 'VOS' the 'Vintage' bit was ment to refer to the slightly aged appearance and the 'original specification' bit referred to the 50s specs and quality craftsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 First: Thank you Live Sound Guy! Second: Raptor, would you agree VOS wasn't really ever intended to make anyone who did his or her homework believe the exact specifications were or even could be met? Such sure would have left Gibson holding a warehouse full of ancient parts and wood stock for half a century! When you and L. helped me decide on the Paul nearest to duplicating the sound of the old ones the R8 is one we discussed. I did my homework as you know, and in the process it became obvious it was a 'best effort' at most of coming near to the older models. So as always, it comes down to marketing doesn't it? You like the Robot's theory, as do I, though I did not purchase one, at least yet!. I'm not sure why the aging thing is big, but don't you think VOS does mean more than just a dulling spray for which it is often mistakenly labled. I think the guitar and its internals are, at the least, a fair marketing effort at reaching back toward the makings of the past models. Gibson has made the most of everything from the Historic VOS to the Robot. It pays to investigate before one makes a purchase, and to then do the best possible at getting close to what is of hope, no? By the way, as always, I appreciate your help on the Les Paul. The R8 is a very fine instrument. As I said earlier, I hope everyone makes peace soon on this one as it is not to much of a front page story anymore. Now, are you playing the Robot regularly and, if so, are you still happy with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPCollector Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Post#2...Year 2006...... http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139795 Notice models are still dentoed as Historic in either Gloss or VOS. http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/electrics/gibson/historic_les_paul/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod B Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 AS90, you are incorrect. VOS is simply the name for an optional finish on the Custom Shop historic reissue guitars. If it has a shiny finish, it's called a "1958 Les Paul Reissue" or R8 for short. If it has a VOS finish it"s a 1958 VOS or an R8 VOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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