Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

GC facing bankruptcy?


merciful-evans

Recommended Posts

The most dodgy tax we have in Oz is Land Tax (state level)...basically if you have land over a certain value you pay tax each year....so you neither buy nor sell anything but are taxed anyway without consuming or receiving income. Total rort!

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, 'Scales said:

The most dodgy tax we have in Oz is Land Tax (state level)...basically if you have land over a certain value you pay tax each year....so you neither buy nor sell anything but are taxed anyway without consuming or receiving income. Total rort!

We have real estate tax here also we pay to the county based on value, a large part goes to support schools. It went up 14.5% last year and now it looks like another 14.5% this year. It went down few years back on acct. of oil boom,but when the oil boom went bust they came back at us. On  2500 acres we are paying roughly about 15K. If you don't pay it,you'll lose the land for taxes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, 'Scales said:

You guys in the US don't pay capital gains tax on your home do you?

When you sell your home ( the last time we did was 20 years ago, I don't know if the law has changed) capital gains , the difference between what you paid for it and the amount it sells for, is taxed but you have ( I think) six months to use that money to purchase another home and avoid paying . Of course you will be buy I g another home that will cost more than your previous one did. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried to support my local music store. I bought my strings there (paid an extra $0.50/pack), reeds, music and had him order big items. On the big things he always matched or beat the GC price.

But GC moved to town and too many people went to GC to get strings, cables and whatever, and my local guy eventually went out of business. Now when GC is gone we'll have nothing.

Local music stores are important. Patronize them. They need cash flow to stay alive. In return you get fair policies, expert advice, no restocking fee, and favors a big box store cannot provide.

Insights and incites by Notes

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

I tried to support my local music store. I bought my strings there (paid an extra $0.50/pack), reeds, music and had him order big items. On the big things he always matched or beat the GC price.

But GC moved to town and too many people went to GC to get strings, cables and whatever, and my local guy eventually went out of business. Now when GC is gone we'll have nothing.

Local music stores are important. Patronize them. They need cash flow to stay alive. In return you get fair policies, expert advice, no restocking fee, and favors a big box store cannot provide.

Insights and incites by Notes

I have a mom and pop shop I go to and I bought an SG there and 4 of my Martins. He always has great prices on Martin's, but sometimes its just easier to shop on line for strings ect.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I tried to support my local music store. I bought my strings there (paid an extra $0.50/pack), reeds, music and had him order big items. On the big things he always matched or beat the GC price.

But GC moved to town and too many people went to GC to get strings, cables and whatever, and my local guy eventually went out of business. Now when GC is gone we'll have nothing.

Local music stores are important. Patronize them. They need cash flow to stay alive. In return you get fair policies, expert advice, no restocking fee, and favors a big box store cannot provide.

Insights and incites by Notes

I tried to support our local music store and I told them I gave them 4 months to produce my Riviera when they told me I would get it in 10 to 12 days. 4 months later and 3 times they said its coming. Never arrived and the last time they said, "We can't guarantee you will get it next year."  That's when I saw Guitar Center finally had 2 in the shop so I bought from them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I tried to support my local music store. I bought my strings there (paid an extra $0.50/pack), reeds, music and had him order big items. On the big things he always matched or beat the GC price.

But GC moved to town and too many people went to GC to get strings, cables and whatever, and my local guy eventually went out of business. Now when GC is gone we'll have nothing.

Local music stores are important. Patronize them. They need cash flow to stay alive. In return you get fair policies, expert advice, no restocking fee, and favors a big box store cannot provide.

Insights and incites by Notes

 

I've tried to support the local guys.  Well, the few left, and they are an hour away at best.  They can't/don't get the big names, can't afford to, so they have stores full of 300 dollar guitars, which are great, but not something I need.  Not something many need really.  And buying strings from them is like a car dealer that only sells windshield wiper blades.  They won't be around long, they have to sell the cars to put the blades on.  It sucks, but that is how it is.  It's just too bad these big distribution deals have become normal, the little guys are out.

rct

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same here,  all we had was small shops tga t were doing ok till GC came to town,  some folded, but most stay in business by concentrating on other markets like band instruments,  orchestra instruments some have music academies with recital facilities while others deal primarily in vintage stuff.

One of the best purely guitar stores in our downtown area just folded , and the owner was a friend of mine, it was hard to see what he we t through because before GC came around he was the go to place for Gibson and Martin and Taylor, and as such, he received a lot of support from those makers in the form of clinics put on by big name endorsers,  and that is a big deal. It brings buyer from miles away.  In order to be a good level dealer for big name brand's like Gibson,  Martin and Taylor and Fender you have to purchase a lot of stuff. He was on the hook for 100k per year in products from Gibson alone.  When GC opened it sucked the buyers away and left him bankrupt. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My favourite small shop was PJ's Guitar Store. The owner Pete was a player and enthusiast. I liked him a lot. I bought a couple of guitars, an amp and lots of smaller stuff from him. He was lucky, he retired and sold the business on.

The new owners moved premises to another part of Portsmouth. When I first visited, it was bristling with guitars and busy. There was a expensive guitar hanging from the ceiling I wanted to try. I asked and was told, 'yeah I'll fetch it down later'. They didn't fetch it down. I waited & asked again and was told the same thing. I eventually got p1ssed off and left. It seemed like a cliquey place for 'friends'. That was 20 years ago. I last went in there 5 years back. It's still a cliquey place for 'friends', but now they have next to no stock and almost no turnover. My luthier supports it. They have trouble trying to pay their tax on the place now. 

We have a large PMT (chain) store nearby and its handy, but its basically a place to shift boxes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On October 28, 2020 at 6:33 AM, ghost_of_fl said:

Kinda same idea:

From "Investopedia":

Laws That Protect You
A company's pension finances are separate from its own finances. That means a company can be bankrupt but still have an adequately funded pension, or it can be doing great and have an underfunded pension. This separation also means that creditors can't claim a bankrupt company's pension assets.

Although Companies & Corporations have been known to dip into those Pension funds. In some cases leaving the Pension fund empty. 

Most Pension funds are part of a Company, LLC, Corp. or some type of Entity while an IRA can be held by an Individual with no ties to a Company, LLC or Corp. 

Big difference....

Edited by Larsongs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our last local store had a Gibson/Epi franchise. The one that went out out of business before that one did had a Fender franchise.

Right before GC came in, the remaining local store lost the franchise. Gibson decided he needed to carry more guitars than he could fit in the store or give up the franchise. He had no choice.

I had him order an Ibanez nylon for my wife, a Sennheiser mic, a couple of AmpSim/FX pedals for my guitar, a new on-stage mixer, and they were all at competitive prices. He loaned me gear to try on the gig before I buy (no credit card, no deposit, just trust) with no restocking fee if returned in saleable condition, and seemed to always know exactly what I needed after I explained what I was trying to do.

He gave me his personal phone number and said that if anything failed on the gig, I cold give him a call, he would stop what he was doing, and deliver something to save the gig. I carry redundant gear and never needed that, but it felt good having that safety net.

I bought my strings, reeds, and other small items there because I know he needed cash flow to keep the store open.

Then GC came to town, charged 50 cents less for a 3 pack of strings, the same price for major gear but with a restocking fee, hired clerks that didn't have the experience and wisdom that the owner of the local store had, employed salespeople who wanted to sell what benefited them instead of the customer, wannabe rock stars playing too loud in the store, and a bad experience all around.

Sadly my local guy is teaching lessons out of his home now and doesn't have a store anymore. If CG goes belly-up, they came conquered and deserted the community.

Another local store in the town about 20 miles south also disappeared.

It's tough competing with the giants as so many people would rather save a penny than have expert advice and great service.

I have to shop on-line now. I usually choose Sweetwater.

Insights and incites by Notes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/29/2020 at 3:25 PM, Sgt. Pepper said:

If you make over a certain amount when you sell it, we sure do. I remember learning in History class that the US broke away form England to get away from taxes, and now that is all they want us to do.

And at the same time, capital gains rates are flat, so rich guys pay the same rate as poor guys on investment type capital gains.  They're not like income taxes, where the rich guys are paying a higher marginal rate.  So rich guys kind of get a break on their "rich guy" income compared to how their regular income taxed.

It's a complicated system that's not consistent with the rest of the tax system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said:

And at the same time, capital gains rates are flat, so rich guys pay the same rate as poor guys on investment type capital gains.  They're not like income taxes, where the rich guys are paying a higher marginal rate.  So rich guys kind of get a break on their "rich guy" income compared to how their regular income taxed.

It's a complicated system that's not consistent with the rest of the tax system.

Plus I hear, a few very rich people pay no taxes at all.  Since this is not political, I won't say more but how do they get away with it? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tax Laws are passed by Congress.. If the People don't like the Tax Laws change your Congress men & women. The People have the power of the Vote... 

That said, the People really need to do their own due diligence. Not just except the Medias Sound Byte of the minute as Fact... Look at it from all points of view & decide for yourself... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Larsongs said:

Although Companies & Corporations have been known to dip into those Pension funds. In some cases leaving the Pension fund empty. 

Most Pension funds are part of a Company, LLC, Corp. or some type of Entity while an IRA can be held by an Individual with no ties to a Company, LLC or Corp. 

Big difference....

Then explain this, in 2004 United Air Lines went through bankruptcy and all It's pilot's lost their retirement pensions 

United pilots stand to lose big bucks

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/united-pilots-lose-big-if-airline-nixes-pension-plans

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, jaxson50 said:

Then explain this, in 2004 United Air Lines went through bankruptcy and all It's pilot's lost their retirement pensions 

United pilots stand to lose big bucks

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/united-pilots-lose-big-if-airline-nixes-pension-plans

That's my point.. They weren't individidual private held IRA's, SEP's, KEOGH's..  They aren't connected to any Company.. They are held solely by Individuals.

The Pilots were Pension Plans thru or connected to their Employers.....

Edited by Larsongs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, pensions and 401Ks are totally different.  Pensions are fairly rare these days and are often lately being "re-structured" so that the money does not run out, and are (generally) not guaranteed.  Pensions are like Social Security where the money you pay goes to people receiving benefits right now, and your  eventual benefits will come from those paying in at that time -- this is a bad model for companies that are large but dwindling businesses (like in the nuclear power industry such as Westinghouse).  The nice things about pensions is that they pay out until you die.  Typically the re-structuring changes are to vary/lower the payouts based on when you want to start getting payments, and if you want to pass it on to your spouse, etc.  Then there are 401k's which are supposed to be solely YOUR money and 99% of the time, they are.  But if the company administers the 401K themselves, there are cases where the money gets borrowed/stolen and sometimes completely lost (people usually will be going to jail if that happens and is hugely rare).  If your 401K is administered by an outside financial house (e.g., Schwab, Fidelty, etc.) then you have pretty much 0% chance of it being violated in any way.  There are also cases where companies have retirement plans that are based in company stock where the value becomes close to nothing wiping out retirement plans' value (remember Enron?).

stock-market-meme-20.jpg

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Also it says they want to terminate the pension funds (going forward), not drain existing assets.  

I know one of the United pilot's that lost his pension they were given pennies on the dollar for what they had been earning for years, in his case, 20 years, it was part of the employment package and the air lines bean counters weaseled their way out of it, it went all the way to the supreme court and the pilot's lost. Makes you wonder if anything is safe, (well we know the politicians and the federal employees will get their pensions)

Getting back to GC, how many other companies will this affect?  The suppliers and don't they own Musicians Friend? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know as a musician, I've been out of work since March 17, so although I still play at least 6 days a week, I don't change my strings and reeds as often as I'd like to, I wait until they aren't playing well, I'm not buying new gear, and I suspect a lot of other musicians are doing the same.

I also figure a lot of the folks who work at GC are also part-time pro musicians, and they aren't gigging either.

This COVID has helped some businesses, and devastated others. Those 'others' that were already on shaky ground have a greater challenge to stay alive.

I have no love for GC, but no animosity either. I read guitar manufacturers are having a record year in sales, so I guess the customers are going elsewhere. That's life in the capitalistic world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...