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Dave F

NGD - 1942 Banner Southern Jumbo

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Ordered back in June from Bailey Brothers and received it today. Jumbo body RW-wise I've had a J-45 Custom RW and Dwight Yoakam Honky Tonk Deuce RW. Both nice guitars but the sound didn't cut it. I do like my NL RW and Stage Dlx RW.

First impressions 

  • Visual -Very nice VOS finish. The nitro is shrunk into the grain looking like a true vintage guitar. Finish looks very thin. The rosewood doesn't have the pores completely filled in which gives it an old time look. Aged binding looks very good. Even looks like a little bear claw going on just north of the bridge. One photo shows it flanked by a J-45 Legend and a 1952 J-45
  • Serial number is ink stamped on the neck block. No stamping on the head stock, no Custom Shop decal. 
  • Neck angle is perfect
  • Tweaked the truss rod just a little
  • A couple of the nut slots need to be taken down
  • Unlike most historic recreations the bridge is not tapered thicker to the bass side. It's fairly straight
  • No fabric side strips. The one with fabric shown below is a J-45 Legend
  • Glue on the braces is a little sloppy like every old one I've looked at. Not a big deal.
  • Neck - 1.775 wide at the nut, .805 thick at first fret. C shape I like it.
  • Soundwise I like it. I have a NL 12 fret RW and Stage Deluxe RW but both have Nickel Bronze strings which my luthier has begged me to stop using. I'll wait a month or so and string them all the same  (bronze) and do a good comparison.
  • TKL version of the redline case.
42 SJ Banner

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

42 SJ Banner

 

 

 

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Congrats, and well done on a thorough initial impressions report. I'm a believer in the whole thin-finish thing, and the way it "takes into" the torrefied Adirondack can be quite dramatic. Until a recent thread about the Historic line, I'd never seen glue pushing up into the referencing hole on the bridge plate, but maybe there's been a change at the station that does that operation at Bozeman. The rectangular indentation into the bridge plate first made me wonder if a PlateMate had already been installed. . . But PlateMate has small holes, smaller than a string's ball end. Could that clamp have been in place when the pin holes were drilled?

Also- what sort of neck carve are they putting on these?

Again, congrats, not only on the ngd, but the patience, as well.  

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Really nice, Dave.

Don't know for sure, but I'm guessing the original belly-down bridges might have been constant thickness, not thicker at the bass side like the rectangular bridges

Tom B's FON 910 '43 rosewood SJ has wood side stays similar to late-40s/early-50s slope Js. Those may not be original to his guitar, as I recall them being a little less refined than the wood side stays used later.

The amount of glue on the inside is no more than I have on my vintage slope Js, and I would be a bit nervous to see less.

Is this an all-hide glue version, like the Wildwood special edition J-45?

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32 minutes ago, 62burst said:

Also- what sort of neck carve are they putting on these?

A full C shape on the SJ

28 minutes ago, j45nick said:

Is this an all-hide glue version, like the Wildwood special edition J-45?

From Gibson website https://www.gibson.com/Guitar/ACCKK1699/1942-Banner-Southern-Jumbo/Vintage-Sunburst

Bracing
Traditional hand-scalloped X-bracing, red spruce braces with hide glue

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38 minutes ago, 62burst said:

The rectangular indentation into the bridge plate first made me wonder if a PlateMate had already been installed. . . But PlateMate has small holes, smaller than a string's ball end. 

Last week, I had a very nice conversation with Mitch Meadors, the inventor of the PlateMate. He was inquiring and schooling me on one of the Martins I am selling. Real nice guy.

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This wall of slopes would keep most acoustic nerds imprisoned in a state of joy. The 45 to the right so strong and basic with a giga B - the new one is a shiner.                                                                                                                Would be a treat to hear side by side by side. 

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Enjoy.  I hope, to quote Bogey ,this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. 

My first thought was Whoa!  Those terrified finishes truly are amazing.

Second thought  was how clean and neat  everything under the hood looks.  The taper on the bracing in my '42 looks like it was whittled with a dull boy scout knife.  Plane marks everywhere, 

The neck seems to be pretty user friendly.    The one the Gibson ladies slapped on my Banner measures  1.06" at the 1st fret.  But  it is so nicely shaped it does not feel clunky.  

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I hope you guys like me doing this.  Here is an original one that meets those specs -- 910-74.

WatYjDz.jpgM7bQ9kh.jpg

qm76c17.jpg

This batch was always dated to 1942, but more recently Willi Henkes has evidence it is actually early Feb 1943.

 

 



Best, -Tom
 
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Congratulations on a great looking guitar. The top is really cool looking, and the glue spill wouldn't bother me one bit. The guitar really does look old. Very nice! One thing though, and this is just my personal preference. I would carefully remove the interior label by soaking it with naptha on a cotton rag, then store the label in the case. To me the label just looks out of place on a replica of a 40´s instrument.

Lars

 

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Beautiful guitar! Congratulations.

It's interesting to see Gibson put fingerboard binding on a guitar with a banner logo. The first SJs did have fingerboard binding, but had the 1930s, banner-less logo. Willi Henkes and I think of them as prototypes (well, Willi's characterization and, as always, I defer to him and his vast knowledge about all things vintage guitar).

As for the dates of the earliest SJs, Gibson shipped the first SJ on August 11, 1943.

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Congratulations on your newest prize. A very fine one, indeed.

Funny comment about the nickels. I liked them for a while, too.

That glue residue is about like mine is, fwiw.

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Interestingly, those neck specs--1.78" at the nut, .805 first fret depth--are pretty much spot-on with the Luthier's Choice neck on my '43 SJ re-issue from 2006. That guitar was part of a special run for Fuller's Vintage Guitars, and has similar appointments, although it is a standard 'hog guitar.

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1 hour ago, j45nick said:

Interestingly, those neck specs--1.78" at the nut, .805 first fret depth--are pretty much spot-on with the Luthier's Choice neck on my '43 SJ re-issue from 2006. That guitar was part of a special run for Fuller's Vintage Guitars, and has similar appointments, although it is a standard 'hog guitar.

 

I would think of a .805 depth as a slim C carve.  The neck on my Fairbanks Smeck, as example, is .93 at the 1st fret and 1.25 at the 12th  and is described as a Fat C.

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2 hours ago, jt said:

Beautiful guitar! Congratulations.

It's interesting to see Gibson put fingerboard binding on a guitar with a banner logo. The first SJs did have fingerboard binding, but had the 1930s, banner-less logo. Willi Henkes and I think of them as prototypes (well, Willi's characterization and, as always, I defer to him and his vast knowledge about all things vintage guitar).

As for the dates of the earliest SJs, Gibson shipped the first SJ on August 11, 1943.

 

I figure if I could spend an just hour with you or Willi I might actually learn something.

 

Edited by zombywoof

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I think you are going to love that one. A great combination of materials and design.  That would be one on my wish list.  Interestingly my LC AJ has a 1.77 nut profile.  I have small hands but find that guitar easy to play. 

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56 minutes ago, J185cat said:

I think you are going to love that one. A great combination of materials and design.  That would be one on my wish list.  Interestingly my LC AJ has a 1.77 nut profile.  I have small hands but find that guitar easy to play. 

As far as I can tell, most or all of the Luthier's Choice AJs came with the LC neck, as well as the other LC properties like the wood selection. It would be nice to compare a "standard" modern AJ neck with the LC neck.

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I don’t have any depth profile measurements on the AJ but it feels and looks to me to a pretty full “C” profile.  This guitar was built in 2003.  I have two J45’s,  a 2009 and a 2016.  Both of those feel more shallow and a little more “D” profile.

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I'd love to talk right now, but my chin is on the floor

That's a nice NG you got there..., and a stellar collection over all.

 

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8 hours ago, zombywoof said:

 

I figure if I could spend an just hour with you or Willi I might actually learn something.

 

10 minutes with Willi would provide you more information than a week with me.

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Congrats on the new SJ. I got to play one of these recently. Visually a really arresting guitar. Had a nice, meaty tone with plenty of punch.  Not sure whether “period correct” or not but it had a somewhat high action, at least compared to the modern series standards I’d been strumming on before I picked it up. 

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Well done, Dave.  And well run for our benefit!   

*I've been out of commission for a couple of weeks.  That model was going to be my next purchase.  Now, maybe still!

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