BigKahune Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 5 hours ago, bertrandbrebis said: What about the pick guard lifting off on 2 new HBs? Pickguard satisfaction is a problem Gibson has been dealing with for quite a while. It goes back a ways and usually involves the iconic artistic pickguards (H'bird, Dove, J-200) that were orignally embossed/engraved with a pattern that was also painted. The paint would wear away - faster for strong strummers - and customers would complain. After years of dealing with this issue Gibson switched the iconic pickguards to a softer "flubber" like material with the pattern and colors layered in so they wouldn't wear away. While they wear well, unfortunately, the flubber pickguards tend to curl up and the edges and lift. Members have suggested some fixes suggested for this - I think the best one is from member ALD - the method worked for me on my J-200 pickguard. If you acquire a Gibson that has an iconic artistic pickguard you are probably going to deal with a lifting pickguard. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: Agree, , , and of course know of the problem. What I meant was that I never encountered the infamous lift in real life - and certainly not side by side on a shop wall. slimt suggests they polished them with something wrong, tiger-saliva or wicked-witch-tears - hmmm, , , would be highly amateurish, but you never know. I would get pretty cold feet in a store like this. ah yes that's for sure, neither have it,, then again finding a hummingbird or a j200 on a show wall in my parts would only be if I wandered into one in my dreams. There are no Gibson dealers in range of me, save for GC and I rarely venture in to one, and I've never seen a J200 on those walls.. not ever. perhaps t takes some time for the defect to show up, so maybe some new old stock would perhaps show it. Who knows tho. I do wish the brilliant minds at Gibson would just figure it out once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Yes, the preference here would be receiving a guitar with action on the high side and a proper neck angle, than too low and nowhere to go. And a question: (ok, 3 questions)- do any of the larger guitar companies (& you know who you are) make a guitar that comes with a pickguard the size of, with the 3 or 4 points of, the p/g on the Hummingbird? and- I suppose the Epiphone Hummingbird is immune from this problem (?). Is the Epiphone version of this guitar finished in nitro or poly? Under normal circumstances, the Bozeman factory strains to meet production numbers. Freshly sprayed nitrocellulose lacquer really needs time to off-gas before working it, let alone attaching anything to it. Unlikely Gibson Montana is in the position to let the guitars cure before installing the guard. A stronger adhesive could be used, but when humidity changes and the guitar top expands and contracts, this would risk a crack in the top in that area. Lesser of two evils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, olie said: You're such a hoot. I seem to get the impression that any one here who deviates from what you think is not up to snuff. An intellectual bully is a way of describing you. Nah. Not at all. Didn’t graduate from college till I was about 40. Got a liberal arts degree cause it was the quickest. If you asked me what notes are in an A chord it would take me a few minutes to put my fingers on the chord then go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, 62burst said: Yes, the preference here would be receiving a guitar with action on the high side and a proper neck angle, than too low and nowhere to go. And a question: (ok, 3 questions)- do any of the larger guitar companies (& you know who you are) make a guitar that comes with a pickguard the size of, with the 3 or 4 points of, the p/g on the Hummingbird? and- I suppose the Epiphone Hummingbird is immune from this problem (?). Is the Epiphone version of this guitar finished in nitro or poly? Under normal circumstances, the Bozeman factory strains to meet production numbers. Freshly sprayed nitrocellulose lacquer really needs time to off-gas before working it, let alone attaching anything to it. Unlikely Gibson Montana is in the position to let the guitars cure before installing the guard. A stronger adhesive could be used, but when humidity changes and the guitar top expands and contracts, this would risk a crack in the top in that area. Lesser of two evils? I’ve had five SJ200’s and two Hummingbirds that I bought new with no P.G. issues. The Dove in Flight was acquired used and has a couple corners up but nothing serious. I’m wondering if a guitar isn’t taken care of temp/humidity wise the first few years or while hanging on a wall in a store, the wood will expand and retract and cause the P.G. edges to loosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave F said: I’ve had five SJ200’s and two Hummingbirds that I bought new with no P.G. issues. The Dove in Flight was acquired used and has a couple corners up but nothing serious. I’m wondering if a guitar isn’t taken care of temp/humidity wise the first few years or while hanging on a wall in a store, the wood will expand and retract and cause the P.G. edges to loosen. Cold wood or cold walls would do it for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrandbrebis Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 8 hours ago, BigKahune said: Pickguard satisfaction is a problem Gibson has been dealing with for quite a while. Members have suggested some fixes suggested for this - I think the best one is from member ALD - the method worked for me on my J-200 pickguard. I read the procedure. It's simple and I wonder why Gibson cannot apply it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seagull Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I have tried lots of new Hummingbirds a long the way, but either never found the right one when I was in the market to buy or never had the cash when I thought I had. I never noticed issues with action or finish, mine was just tonal. It seems to me the care the guitar gets right after manufacture could have a big impact on the pick guard? Temp and moisture extremes? It seems with my solid wood guitars that the first couple years seem to need the most attention. Mine seem less reactive after that. I think when/if you find the right Hummingbird there is nothing that could take it's place. But there are far more ones than there are the one. Kind of that way with everything I guess.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Seagull said: I think when/if you find the right Hummingbird there is nothing that could take it's place. But there are far more ones than there are the one. Kind of that way with everything I guess.. Good Seagull - allow this paraphrase : I think when/if you find the right girl, , , the woman you really want to make your wife, there is nothing that could take her place. But there are far more ones than there are the one. Kind of that way with everything I guess.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 The pickguard issue seems more worrisome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, generaldreedle said: The pickguard issue seems more worrisome. Yup. I dont think it will go away any time soon. The thin guards were just fine before. Flubber was s flop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrandbrebis Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 I've just found a second hand 2018 Hummingbird that looks good. I asked the seller about the pick guard and he said it's starting to lift off at the pointed ends. The price is right but what can I do about that since I cannot repair that myself? I do find it crazy that such a well-known problem exists on a guitar in that price range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 7:57 PM, 62burst said: Yes, the preference here would be receiving a guitar with action on the high side and a proper neck angle, than too low and nowhere to go. And a question: (ok, 3 questions)- do any of the larger guitar companies (& you know who you are) make a guitar that comes with a pickguard the size of, with the 3 or 4 points of, the p/g on the Hummingbird? and- I suppose the Epiphone Hummingbird is immune from this problem (?). Is the Epiphone version of this guitar finished in nitro or poly? Under normal circumstances, the Bozeman factory strains to meet production numbers. Freshly sprayed nitrocellulose lacquer really needs time to off-gas before working it, let alone attaching anything to it. Unlikely Gibson Montana is in the position to let the guitars cure before installing the guard. A stronger adhesive could be used, but when humidity changes and the guitar top expands and contracts, this would risk a crack in the top in that area. Lesser of two evils? I believe it is partly the materials they use for these pick guards. Did you know (bet ya did) you can buy after market pick guards, the ones with the etchings will set you back $300.. They are pretty much guaranteed to solve the problem. Holter will make ya one, but they do not provide one with the J200 or Hummingbird etchings. (yet anyway, they say they are working on it) seriously, IMHO and what do I know, this is a classic case of denial on behalf of the manufacture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, kidblast said: seriously, IMHO and what do I know, this is a classic case of denial on behalf of the manufacture. Maybe when this thread gets to seven or so pages. It took a while for Gibson to stop locating J-45 pickguards over top of the rosette .😐. In the meantime, if I found a Hummingbird that had what I was looking for, a lifting pickguard would not stop me. Press it down, and play on. Or remove, clean, and reattach with the 3M 467MP adhesive sheets. Saturday morning job. < 2hr.s. Done. Edited December 2, 2020 by 62burst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 36 minutes ago, 62burst said: Maybe when this thread gets to seven or so pages. It took a while for Gibson to stop locating J-45 pickguards off of the rosette .😐. In the meantime, if I found a Hummingbird that had what I was looking for, a lifting pickguard would not stop me. Press it down, and play on. Or remove, clean, and reattach with the 3M 467MP adhesive sheets. Saturday morning job. < 2hr.s. Done. ha! wouldn't stop me either, there is a way to attach so it wont, (posted on this forum).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrandbrebis Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 Yes that's the question I am asking myself due to the still high price of the guitar - Should I buy it knowing that the PG lifts off? Is it really that easy to repair it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, bertrandbrebis said: Yes that's the question I am asking myself due to the still high price of the guitar - Should I buy it knowing that the PG lifts off? Is it really that easy to repair it? read this thread below, thats going to help you decide if it's worth your time / effort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Glad to see what some here jokingly refer to as "fan boys" have talked you down from your concerns with the high action. I'm assuming the shop that has 2 HB;s - New old stock, one 2+ years old, has them because they are the type BluesKing described - you buy it as is, we don't do setups, put on new strings, etc. As noted here - we've all experienced high action with new Gibsons but I don't recall anyone ever stating they were 'unplayable'. If it is that high - I'd wager the action is higher now than it was when Bozeman shipped them. Bozeman does measure those things. Does the shop have them in a room with humidity control? Be aware - just as there are 'fan boys' here, there are some who offer advice here who have biases in the other direction. Some of whom do not actually even own a Gibson Acoustic. I think that Chinese Guitar might be your best bet - I think if you got a new H'Bird, you're pre-positioned to have Buyers Remorse: Plastic pins, sketchy looking truss rod cover, glue drops inside, runout in the woodgrain, etc. China uses Rosewood for panelling in new homes, can put on ivory bridge pins, counterfeit Klusons or Grovers and can use EPA UN-approved glue to make sure your pick guard never lifts. If the 'how to' PG fix referred to days ago didn't interest you (kudos to KidBlast for digging it up just now for you) you might consider the 'glass is half full' when it comes to PG glue. Do you want an epoxy that will not allow the wood to move when humidity goes over 60 or under 40 ? That can cause a crack in the spruce top. I have an SJ200 with a corner barely lifting - and it's one of the traditional . non-flubber ones. Didn't notice it until I read a thread like this one and went and checked. I was barely able to slip in a piece of double sided tape. Held it down with a book - didn't work; but I never ever think about it. Got over it in just a few months. PG also covers the outer rings of the rosette. Like it does on my HBird TV. Never ever think about that either. Very important to be able to make a decision, accept reality, and move on. Let us know which way you go. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Here is my 2005 Dove that I bought last year... The poor old dove has no beak! The pickguard is pretty worn, but did I care? Nope, I thought it was part of the parcel, including the person writing the name of his fave song and band on the lower corner. It is not lifting! Though the earlier model guard, I have no idea if anyone has had a problem with it previously... maybe they need to go back to these, or ...the BOLTS!!! BluesKing777. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBSinTo Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said: Here is my 2005 Dove that I bought last year... The poor old dove has no beak! The pickguard is pretty worn, but did I care? Nope, I thought it was part of the parcel, including the person writing the name of his fave song and band on the lower corner. It is not lifting! Though the earlier model guard, I have no idea if anyone has had a problem with it previously... maybe they need to go back to these, or ...the BOLTS!!! BluesKing777. BluesKing777, If, as was stated earlier a whole new pick guard costs $300.00, perhaps they'd just sell you the beak you need for $25.00 or $30.00. RBSinTo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, RBSinTo said: BluesKing777, If, as was stated earlier a whole new pick guard costs $300.00, perhaps they'd just sell you the beak you need for $25.00 or $30.00. RBSinTo None of my pickguards have animals on them. A few are tortoise shell colored though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75 Hummingbird Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 If a Norlin era Hummingbird has one good thing going for it ...it`s a well fastened pick guard ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBSinTo Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said: None of my pickguards have animals on them. A few are tortoise shell colored though. Tortoise shell huh? So I guess some animals have pickguards on them. RBSinTo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 2 hours ago, 75 Hummingbird said: If a Norlin era Hummingbird has one good thing going for it ...it`s a well fastened pick guard ! Yes, , , and we HAVE to keep looking at those bright sides. . Fx if the guitar gets crushed during flying, you'll have 4 extra screws besides the 12 on the headstock, , , actually sometimes 5 or 6. Seems Norlin was a bit in doubt when it came to number of screws. Or could the ones I've seen with 6 have had lifting probs !😖😨 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, RBSinTo said: BluesKing777, If, as was stated earlier a whole new pick guard costs $300.00, perhaps they'd just sell you the beak you need for $25.00 or $30.00. RBSinTo I probably won't bother but I will get a nice new bone saddle to replace the plakky one someone has had a bit of a hack at, to lower just the 1st string for some reason, and went too low..... It still plays ok, don't know how. The pickup (Anthem) is working great so some would say let sleeping dogs lie, or this let sleeping dogs fart while having a wolf running dream? P.S. If I could buy this new one from Sweetwater, can't! - but by the time it arrived here with delivery, importation travel costs, exchange rate, it would be (Australian Dollars) $AU7,265.31!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ain't ever happening - while I love my pawn shop Dove more daily, it is not the little coupe/convertible fingerpicker I normally drive...... Yep, I mainly got the Dove because you guys are always going Blah, Blah, Dove, Dove, Blah, Blah, Blah and it was there unloved, for sale, so I thought to try it out..... https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OCSSDOVCS--gibson-acoustic-dove-original-vintage-cherry-sunburst BluesKing777. Edited December 3, 2020 by BluesKing777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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