trying to date a J50

[bobouz]

There have been a number of variations in batwing pickguards, the most obvious being significant differences between jumbo, roundshoulder dread, & small-jumbo bodied guards.  Terrapin’s two batwing guards reflect the jumbo & dread shape, but I’ve also observed clear differences just among J-45/J-50 guards.  Some are wider at the top, and some have a more rounded shape at the outer base corner.

But when it comes to the thick J-45/J-50 pickguards from the mid to late ‘60s, to my eye they’ve always looked quite consistent in shape.  Without measuring, Boyd’s & the OP’s look to be the same shape.  If this is true, the most notable difference would be in where they are mounted.  Boyd’s starts right at the 16th fret, while the OP’s starts halfway between the 16th & 17th frets.  This was clearly done to align the guard properly with the soundhole rosette.  Therefore the OP’s soundhole is further from the top of the body, and/or a scale length issue is involved.

Decades ago, I made some now grainy copies of the acoustic pages from the 1969 catalog, and these belly-down no-dot bridges are on the Hummingbird, Blue Ridge, and J-45/J-50 - which are all square-shouldered (the Heritage bridge has dots).  The J-45/J-50 sports the teardrop pickguard.  All are long-scale.  Notably, there is only one roundshoulder in the catalog:  a J-160E with a belly-down bridge, listed as also having a long scale.  Additionally, a modified batwing guard is almost kissing the bridge.

1969 was truly a year of transition in Kalamazoo, with quite possibly a lot of cobbling of parts.  Not only was Gibson completely revamping it’s lineup, but it was also the last year of on-site Epiphone production.  Who knows, perhaps even some long-scale roundshoulder Texan parts were getting thrown into the use-it-all-up revamp hopper.

Bottom line - There are a number of possibilities!

Edited December 7, 2020 by bobouz

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, bobouz said:

 

1969 was truly a year of transition in Kalamazoo, with quite possibly a lot of cobbling of parts.  Not only was Gibson completely revamping it’s lineup, but it was also the last year of on-site Epiphone production.  Who knows, perhaps even some long-scale roundshoulder Texan parts were getting thrown into the use-it-all-up revamp hopper.

Bottom line - There are a number of possibilities!

 

Regarding the mess at Gibson you also have to figure into the equation that in 1965  Arnie Berlin replaced his father Maurice as president of CMI.  Arnie was a Harvard and Princeton educated bean counter but was clueless about what it took to make guitars.   His impact on Gibson through the second half of the 1960s cannot be denied made worse by the entrance of managers from Norlin.

Edited December 7, 2020 by zombywoof