What type of finish was used on Epiphone classical guitars in the 1980s?

[Susannah]

Hi, I have a 1988 Epiphone C 50 classical guitar.  It has a cedar top, rosewood back and sides, and an ebony fretboard.  I don't know what type of clear coat it has, and I am trying to find the right products to properly care for it.  I have always cleaned it either with distilled white vinegar or with a slightly damp or dry cotton cloth, but I have recently learned that I need to take better care of it than I have, apparently it's a miracle that it hasn't been harmed by my ignorance about guitar humidifiers and fretboard conditioner.  

I would not worry about polishing the body at all, except that the original owner did some damage that I intend to hide with inlay decals.  Before I apply the decals, I'd like to take care of some small scratches and nicks in the clear coat.  I have been considering several different products that would essentially behave like car wax, to redistribute a little of the clear coat over the scratched and nicked areas to make the scratches disappear and the nicks less noticeable.   

The products I am considering the most seriously are Music Nomad F-One as a fretboard conditioner suited for ebony or rosewood fretboards, and Lizard Spit Scratch & Scuff Remover System.  I have also seen Meguiar's products recommended by a luthier in a YouTube video, and on several forums.

I want to make sure that whatever choice I make is what's best for my guitar.  Buying a guitar humidifier and some fretboard conditioner is a no-brainer, but I am not sure if I should leave well enough alone and slap some inlay decals on the worst nicks, or if I should use a product to gently improve the guitar's appearance before I apply these decals over the worst nicks.

I have had this guitar for over 25 years now, but I'm about to start recording YouTube videos, and I want my guitar to look its best if possible, I don't want it to look like I'm the one who abused it, or for the damaged cedar top to draw attention away from the music.

I did write to Gibson to ask for the information, but I haven't heard back yet, and if someone here knows and can make a recommendation, I would really appreciate it! 

[QuestionMark]

I have to give you my honest opinion.  A well worn instrument with nicks and all is the way to have the instrument look the best it can.  Putting decals on the top to cover nicks will unusual, uncool.  Leave the nicks be, they are battlescars from your guitar being 32 years old.   Any attempt to cover them will look like an attempt to cover them.  Paul McCartney may have gotten away with putting a decal on his infamous Texan back in the 60/70s, but any other guitar by anyone else would look cooler without  it.   An Epiphone C50 from 1988 is still kind of an early import guitar no matter how one approaches it.  The company was sold not too long after the mid-80s to Henry J who shortly after rebooted both the Gibson and the Epiphone brands...which took quite awhile to regain their reputations from that preceding era.  My suggestion is if you're looking for a new looking classical Epiphone guitar, simply purchase a newer one, they are quite inexpensive.  Or, purchase a new one from a manufacturer who is more known for making classical guitars than Epiphone...which can range from $300 and up and up.    Or, just keep the C50, of course....but, without any added decals.  Segovia never put decals on his classical guitars.    And, Willie Nelson certainly never put decals on his famous nylon string Martin guitar, that he calls Trigger.   He lets its battlescars show freely while making his battlescarred guitar become the envy of all guitar players. 

If you're referring to putting decal fret markets on the classical guitar's neck, I'd suggest not doing that either.  Fret markers are usually some form of an inlay, not a decal.  And, appear on the top of a classical guitar’s neck out of site lines, not on the fretboard,  or, as most classical guitars, simply don’t have any.  Although a few do.

Regarding keeping the C50 clean, I'm big on using Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Final Inspection 34.   Its a very gentle spray and wipe polish and I use it on all of my guitars whether they be $100 ones to $3000 ones.  I learned of it by noticing some great gentle guitar as well as piano polishes under the Fender brand mentioned they were made by Meguiar's...so I called Meguiar's and asked them which of their polishes under their own brand name fit my needs for a gentle spray on/wipe off polish for nitrocellulose as well as poly finishes or ?? finishes...and they recommended their #34 polish, which they said is private labelled under guitar brand names.   I use it after every gig.  They also have so higher gloss or cleaner polishes to restore finishes (they slightly remove the upper layer of an existing finish, but the gentler 34 one seems to be the best to keep mine in tip top shape and regular use without any possible damage to the guitar,   Gibson also has an equivalent spray on/wipe off polish, not by Meguiar that seems fine to use without harming anything.   

I hope this helps.  Figured it’s best to give my honest opinion.   But, on the other hand, it’s your guitar, so it’s yours to do with as you choose...and, that’s the real truth!😊

I hope you'll post some of the music you mention you are going to put on YouTube, on this forum for us all to hear.

QM aka "Jazzman" Jeff

Edited December 15, 2020 by QuestionMark

[Susannah]

Thanks for your reply, QuestionMark, and for your advise about  Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Final Inspection 34.  A video from a luthier suggested Meguiar's 7 and 10, if I recall, after using Gluboost products and sanding products to fix damage in a cedar topped guitar like mine.  I re-watched the video recently and decided that it would be far too difficult to match the clear coat if I sanded it off to repair damage, that is not the way to go for me, though  Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Final Inspection 34 just might be.  I also looked at D'Addario Restore Deep Cleaning Polishing Cream, Music Nomad One, Gibson Restoration Finish Cream (though it seems to only be available in their Vintage Reissue Guitar Restoration Kit ), and other similar products.  I'm still not quite sure what to do, but I know that it will involve sealing damage prior to any application of decals.

I wish someone had not tried to drill holes to add a pickup to my guitar in the past, that's what looks the worst, and that is what I would most like to hide (at least, that's the only reason I can imagine for the partial drill holes in the top).  Anyone who sees it would assume that I did that to my guitar, when I absolutely would not have done so.  Nicks are one thing, accidents happen, but intentional partial drill holes in the top?!  Sacrilege!  The repair shop I spoke with suggested that I fill these holes with SuperGlue, especially since the finish around them has darkened slightly, and may be spreading.  I have had this guitar for just over 25 years now and I don't think it has gotten any worse, except maybe the discoloration has grown, and Superglue would help keep out air and moisture that could cause additional damage.  One of the drill holes almost has a 1" crack above it.  It's not quite a crack, just a line, but if keeping moisture out of it will keep it from getting any worse, then I definitely better do anything I can to seal it up.

I heard back from Gibson and they told me that it has a polyurethane finish, which made me think that something like the Varathane 248125 Scratch Repair Polyurethane Pen would be better for sealing the small nicks and the two drill holes, versus Superglue.    

There are very slight surface scratches from a pick that I would like to make vanish with a good product, prior to applying any decals.  I already decided against fretboard decals because I don't want my guitar to look too busy, though I have considered adding decals of fretboard dots to the sides of the necks on my other guitars, which only have dots on the front, because I'm used to quickly glancing down to make sure I'm on the right fret using the side dots.  If my classical guitar didn't have any damage, I would want to get either the 'In The Garden' or 'Various Hummingbird' design from inlaystickers.com and add it to the left of the sound hole, just to give it a little more personality (not that it needs more personality, really, I just like those designs).  I considered either doves or cherry blossoms on the bottom right corner, where the damage from the pickup is, since 'Various Hummingbird' really looked way too busy the way I would have had to lay it out to cover the drill holes and nearby worst nicks, and 'In The Garden' just would not cover them at all.  I finally decided on cherry blossoms with falling petals on the bottom right corner, where the drill holes are.  If they look wrong, I can take them right back off.  

People do enjoy bringing out WIllie Nelson's damaged guitar as an example, and I agree that works for Willie Nelson, but it doesn't work for everyone, and IMO, he got really lucky that the hole seems to act as a second soundhole, instead of completely ruining the guitar.  I'd be very interested to learn the story behind how his guitar got injured, or whether he got it that way as his first guitar when he couldn't afford anything better.  (That is how I got mine, I gave a trusted adult who knew a lot about guitars $125 when he was going to a guitar show, and asked him to get me the best classical guitar he could for the money, and he got an amazing deal on this one due to the cosmetic damage; though I was immediately disappointed due to the cosmetic damage, I learned to love my guitar because of how good she sounds and how easy she is to play.)  If I had injured my guitar, that would be part of her history with me, but the main damage was caused by someone else and it needs to be sealed.  While I'm at it, it seems like a good idea to take care of the small nicks as well, and while I'm doing that, I may as well take care of the tiny surface markings from a guitar pick.  I play fingerstyle myself, so I won't be doing any more damage with a pick.  

What I most want to know is what to use for minimizing the appearance of the nicks and very light scratching from a pick (which only shows when the light hits it, and has never really bothered me, I just think I may as well take care of the whole top at once while I'm doing it).  

 Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Final Inspection 34 might be the best solution, I'll be looking into that.  I understand the idea of keeping the guitar as-is with no decals, and just accepting the damage as part of its history.  I burned my wrist on an element in my oven last month, and I'm putting scar gel on it.  I want to do the same for my guitar.  If it was a severe burn that would never heal, I would get some kind of bracelet to wear to cover the scar.  I want to do the same for my guitar, put something beautiful over an old injury that can never heal.  Some people wear scars proudly.  I'm not one of those people, and perhaps I am projecting my own wishes onto my guitar, but I think she won't mind the decals nearly as much as she minds the damage done to her in the past.  I guess I learned that from my mother, who was in a terrible car accident when she was 23.  She wore sleeves in public, to cover the skin grafts on her arms, for over 40 years .  Now that my guitar is going to be in public (on YouTube), I want her to be able to cover up her visible scars as well.

If I didn't want to use this particular guitar for acoustic reasons, I would buy one of those cheap blue burst classical guitars for my YouTube videos.  I think they are extremely pretty, and if money were no object, I would buy a good classical guitar with a blue burst.  As far as it goes, I have a Kustom Kasino electric guitar in black and I intend to give it a blue burst, probably with a decal over the entire top.  The guitar is essentially worthless,  I could spend $500 to get a Jackson X blue burst guitar that would look similar, but it would not be the guitar Mom got me for Christmas in 1995, and I would be just that much further from buying a new roof.  And, because I rarely ever use my electric guitar, it would be a huge waste, just to get a guitar that is painted the way I want it.  Same with my C 50 classical guitar, only it is actually the best guitar I own.  It's better than the Broadway archtop I inherited from my mom, and certainly better than my Martin backpacker.  I am unlikely to ever have a better guitar, and this is the one that I taught myself on.  

Philosophical differences, I suppose.  I would not trade in my dog just because she is older and has health issues, on a new puppy.  I feel the same way about my guitar.  However, I would do what I could to minimize past injuries, including the appearance of past injuries, on my guitar.  I can't undo any health problems my dog develops, but a guitar is no longer alive, so I can do more to help my guitar that I cannot do with my dog, to minimize the damage she acquired through the passage of time.  I get attached to musical instruments as if they were pets.  I have never sold one.  Fortunately, I have never been desperate enough that I had to.  I would have my guitar top refinished if that were financially feasible.  Instead, a combination of the right products and small decals will have to do, if I don't want people to be distracted from my performance by wondering how my guitar got those partial drill holes in the top.  

[zombywoof]

I would say a general audience does not care what guitar you are playing and is not going to be distracted by a couple of screw holes or other damage and wear and tear.  Just think of it as part of the guitar's history.  

[Susannah]

Zombywoof and QuestionMark, I just realized that you are right, when it comes to most people. I had forgotten that most people really don't notice those details!

Autistic people will absolutely notice. I just forget sometimes that not everyone perceives these things. Since I would say that Autistic people are definitely part of my target audience, I think I had better do whatever I can to minimize the appearance of that damage, or else I'm going to lose that part of my audience.

There is a section in a book that I read at one point about how the facial expressions in 'Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf' went right over the heads of the Autistic audience (of one), who was fascinated by the light switch behind the actors. I had this experience when I watch 'A Raisin in the Sun.' That light switch was seriously distracting me, I was too busy recognizing it from an apartment I lived it when I was in college.

If I don't want the same thing to happen in my videos....

[QuestionMark]

Thanks for clarifying what you’re seeking to accomplish.  I hope you’ll share your music video here after you make it and post it on YouTube,  so we can hear your music.  And, welcome to the forum!

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff