Gibson vs Epiphone blindfold challenge

[Lars68]

 

Lars

[Paul14]

Thanks for that. These are the clips I’ve been waiting for.  Side by side comparison, shows there is really no comparison. If a person can afford the Gibson, that’s the one they will buy! At least that’s my opinion.

[j45nick]

That was really excellent.

The J-45 really is the workhorse, as he says.

The strings are a variable in this case, but we have know way of knowing how much of a variable, and in which direction that difference might tilt the decision between any two guitars.

This was a very good demonstration of all the guitars. If you had a really limited budget, the Epiphone is clearly a good choice.

One thing that came out is that the closest competition was between the 'birds. I'll leave it to folks like Em7 to analyze that.

With both the J-45 and the J-200,  he was essentially talking about differences in dynamic range between the Gibson and Epiphone versions.

[Lars68]

33 minutes ago, j45nick said:

That was really excellent.

The J-45 really is the workhorse, as he says.

The strings are a variable in this case, but we have know way of knowing how much of a variable, and in which direction that difference might tilt the decision between any two guitars.

This was a very good demonstration of all the guitars. If you had a really limited budget, the Epiphone is clearly a good choice.

One thing that came out is that the closest competition was between the 'birds. I'll leave it to folks like Em7 to analyze that.

With both the J-45 and the J-200,  he was essentially talking about differences in dynamic range between the Gibson and Epiphone versions.

 

I agree, the Bird comparison was the closest contest, at least on my headphones. Both Birds  sounded stellar. I couldn't tell them apart. The Epi J-45 was good, but I really didn't like the Epi J-200. Way too harsh for me.

Lars

[ALD323]

There's only one way to deal with this difficult comparison issue, and that is if you want to have a nice sized stall of 6 beautiful guitars. Just order one of each for Christmas and your done!!

[Paul14]

I also have a J-45, & J-200. I thought the one that showed the biggest difference, was the J-200. I don’t think any strings would bring the Epiphone up to same, or similar category as the Gibson J-200. Huge difference. I thought the Hummingbird was close, but no cigar! I didn’t think the 45 comparison was close either.

[j45nick]

58 minutes ago, Paul14 said:

I also have a J-45, & J-200. I thought the one that showed the biggest difference, was the J-200. I don’t think any strings would bring the Epiphone up to same, or similar category as the Gibson J-200. Huge difference. I thought the Hummingbird was close, but no cigar! I didn’t think the 45 comparison was close either.

Agree 100%

[kelly campbell]

Good stuff

[Sgt. Pepper]

Ok, usually I am trying to be a s-hit disturber, but this time I am not. Those guys are doing the challenge and they are blindfolded (okay not really, special googles to block the light). How many of you watched the video? If you did you saw what guitars they played and therefore you know when they had and Epi in their hand vs  Gibby, and you cant tell me you are not going to have an instant bias to the guitar that starts with the letter G.

Am I right? If you didn't start the video, then close your eyes, and only listen and until both were played, then you know know who made it defeats the purpose of a blind test.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[j45nick]

36 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Ok, usually I am trying to be a s-hit disturber, but this time I am not. Those guys are doing the challenge and they are blindfolded (okay not really, special googles to block the light). How many of you watched the video? If you did you saw what guitars they played and therefore you know when they had and Epi in their hand vs  Gibby, and you cant tell me you are not going to have an instant bias to the guitar that starts with the letter G.

Am I right? If you didn't start the video, then close your eyes, and only listen and until both were played, then you know know who made it defeats the purpose of a blind test.

The blind test was to determine how a guy who plays professionally and does demos for a living , playing and listening to each guitar without knowing which was which, would react to the guitars. I  don't have a good enough headset or good enough speakers to do a "real" comparison watching the video, but he didn't need those for the test.

I did watch the video, all the way through, and was impressed by the comments of the guy doing the testing, not to mention his playing, which I thought was a really good way to demo the guitars. He hedged bets on the 'birds a bit at first, which was understandable given how similar they were at first listen.

Sure, I could hear differences, but what I heard might have been completely different if I had been sitting directly in front of or behind the guitars.

No one is denying there was confirmation bias involved in watching, knowing which guitar was which.

[Sgt. Pepper]

5 minutes ago, j45nick said:

The blind test was to determine how a guy who plays professionally and does demos for a living , playing and listening to each guitar without knowing which was which, would react to the guitars. I  don't have a good enough headset or good enough speakers to do a "real" comparison watching the video, but he didn't need those for the test.

I did watch the video, all the way through, and was impressed by the comments of the guy doing the testing, not to mention his playing, which I thought was a really good way to demo the guitars. He hedged bets on the 'birds a bit at first, which was understandable given how similar they were at first listen.

Sure, I could hear differences, but what I heard might have been completely different if I had been sitting directly in front of or behind the guitars.

No one is denying there was confirmation bias involved in watching, knowing which guitar was which.

I am not a pro, and you may not be either or you might be. But I have been playing long enough and I am sure you have playing long enough, as well to make an informed decision on what sounds better to your ear. Not only pros will be buying those guitars.

And as for your speaker comment, I have said a bunch of times, most of us watching and listening to these clips are listening and watching on a laptop or listening on lo-fi computer speakers. So  things will sound different but how good will it really be.

[cunningham26]

3 hours ago, Paul14 said:

I also have a J-45, & J-200. I thought the one that showed the biggest difference, was the J-200. I don’t think any strings would bring the Epiphone up to same, or similar category as the Gibson J-200. Huge difference. I thought the Hummingbird was close, but no cigar! I didn’t think the 45 comparison was close either.

 

Agree 100%. I watched on my TV with pretty good speakers and the sound replicated what I've always heard when playing an epi version of a gibson. Their comment about it being a bunch of little things that make all the difference couldn't be more spot-on. As someone that has wanted a J200 most of my life and always disappointed in the laminate top EJ series, I'm really happy that people with a budget get a solid version of the gibson counterpart, but I'll still hold out for the real deal.

Edited December 17, 2020 by cunningham26

[Brucebubs]

As someone who owns an older model 2012 EJ-200 and new 2020 Historic 1957 SJ-200 I can tell you the difference is huge - but having said that the EJ-200 can be a lot of fun when you give it a firm hand - those upgrades on the new EJ-200 seem mighty nice - I would still like to throw a set of bone bridge pins on that Epiphone EJ-200 and a set of DR Sunbeam round-core strings, both really lifted my EJ-200 to another level.

[Paul14]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Ok, usually I am trying to be a s-hit disturber, but this time I am not. Those guys are doing the challenge and they are blindfolded (okay not really, special googles to block the light). How many of you watched the video? If you did you saw what guitars they played and therefore you know when they had and Epi in their hand vs  Gibby, and you cant tell me you are not going to have an instant bias to the guitar that starts with the letter G.

Am I right? If you didn't start the video, then close your eyes, and only listen and until both were played, then you know know who made it defeats the purpose of a blind test.

Why do you always seem surprised to find that Gibson owners like Gibson’s . Why else would we buy them? You still haven’t said what you think of the sound comparisons. I’m sorry, but I would think if you were blind,  or had 20/20 vision you could tell the difference in the tone of these  guitars. Maybe you didn’t like any of them, because you’re biased toward Martins?

[Sgt. Pepper]

15 minutes ago, Paul14 said:

Why do you always seem surprised to find that Gibson owners like Gibson’s . Why else would we buy them? You still haven’t said what you think of the sound comparisons. I’m sorry, but I would think if you were blind,  or had 20/20 vision you could tell the difference in the tone of these  guitars. Maybe you didn’t like any of them, because you’re biased toward Martins?

I'm not but how can a blind test be fair and bias if you know what is being played. This has nothing to do with Martin at all. It's pointless if you are not going to do it blind. But as I have been told it was for pros who play and make demos, so I guess us regular folks who wear and occasional python boot are to be excluded.

To me the demos are for seeing if you want to spend the $4600 for a Gibby vs the $499 for the Epi. Martin has nothing to do with it. They were not in the demo.

Even with my personal guitar bias, Your damn right a $4600 Gibson had better sound better than a $499 Epi all damn day long.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[Paul14]

25 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I'm not but how can a blind test be fair and bias if you know what is being played. This has nothing to do with Martin at all. It's pointless if you are not going to do it blind. But as I have been told it was for pros who play and make demos, so I guess us regular folks who wear and occasional python boot are to be excluded.

To me the demos are for seeing if you want to spend the $4600 for a Gibby vs the $499 for the Epi. Martin has nothing to do with it. They were not in the demo.

Even with my personal guitar bias, Your damn right a $4600 Gibson had better sound better than a $499 Epi all damn day long.

All damned day!  In addition to that, if your budget was $600-$1,000 would you spend on one of these Epiphone? Not sure if I would? I would definitely play some others before making that decision. Seagull makes some awesome guitars in that price range, & they aren’t the only ones.

[j45nick]

I listened to this again through  half-decent Bose speakers, and the differences were more obvious than they were through my headphones.

[fortyearspickn]

I think the point of this 'blind test' was simply  that the people running it were blindfolded.  If they intended  for US  to be blindfolded =  they would have put the blindfold over the video camera.      I played once a week for a few years with someone who had an Epiphone H'Bird - while I played my Gibson H'Bird.  The difference in sound was significant, bu not in proportion to the difference in price.  However, the relevant difference in discussing 'Which is better?'    is the budgets of the respective  guitar purchasers.  It's simply a function of what you can afford and how serious you are about your music. Maybe you'd rather have a Rolex.

[QuestionMark]

Very cool comparison.  
 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[E-minor7]

"This one pretty much played out as, , ,  you know,  , you would expect", says the host near the outro. I agree, , , all in the test turns out after the book.                                                                          The G's has more class and delicacy to offer - the E's though are very good copies (fine lookers too) and deserve weightier challenges than campfire nights.                                                                   And yes, the 2 (6) will parallel-develop over the years - with G's staying above.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That said, I found the G-bird rather mushi and the E-ditto extraordinary snappy.  

Listened through my well broken in and beloved open back Beyerdynamics 990 PRO 250 ohm. Always does when listening here, there or on the Tube pr PC.

 

Another A/B tells the same 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by E-minor7

[fortyearspickn]

15 hours ago, Brucebubs said:

As someone who owns an older model 2012 EJ-200 and new 2020 Historic 1957 SJ-200 I can tell you the difference is huge - but having said that the EJ-200 can be a lot of fun when you give it a firm hand - those upgrades on the new EJ-200 seem mighty nice - I would still like to throw a set of bone bridge pins on that Epiphone EJ-200 and a set of DR Sunbeam round-core strings, both really lifted my EJ-200 to another level.

Holding bridge pins aside, shouldn't you take out that Planet Waves Tone Enhancer donut thingy in your Epiphone  to make the comparison more comparable? 

[BoSoxBiker]

I did listen with very nice headphones (Focal Elegia). The Gibson Hummingbird did not sound good at all compared to how I hear my own Standard Gibson Hummingbird  or almost any demo I've heard online. Something was off. It was like round wound strings got re-installed, or something. No so much later as earlier in it's portion of the test. 

Both the Hummingbird and the J45 epi tests showed me that the low-mids were more functional than I anticipated. Oddly enough, it didn't sound that way in the test that Em7 posted. Could be a microphone difference. It would be for Antertons to use a mic that shows off positive tonal attributes when they are trying to sell guitars.

I almost wrote Arterton, not Anderton. I guess Gemma was on my mind again. To be young again. <sigh>

back to topic. I heard a sort of inability to handle the load on both the Epi J45 and the SJ-200 tests. It sounded like a speaker when it can't handle the volume or something. Maybe like they were not breathing or opened up yet? .

I know when I play a nicer guitar verses one that isn't so nice, that the nicer ones (Standard or above Gibsons and their Martins, Taylors etc) sounded like the sound energy was centered in a different place and projecting much differently. I wonder of any of these new inspired by series give off something akin to that feeling. 

 

[cunningham26]

15 hours ago, Paul14 said:

All damned day!  In addition to that, if your budget was $600-$1,000 would you spend on one of these Epiphone? Not sure if I would? I would definitely play some others before making that decision. Seagull makes some awesome guitars in that price range, & they aren’t the only ones.

 

The thing is that people shop with their eyes as much as their ears. If I was on that budget and able to get something that looked 100% like the guitar that my music heroes play and sounded decent enough, i'd rather that than something that sounded better with no distinguishable character

[kelly campbell]

16 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I'm not but how can a blind test be fair and bias if you know what is being played. This has nothing to do with Martin at all. It's pointless if you are not going to do it blind. But as I have been told it was for pros who play and make demos, so I guess us regular folks who wear and occasional python boot are to be excluded.

To me the demos are for seeing if you want to spend the $4600 for a Gibby vs the $499 for the Epi. Martin has nothing to do with it. They were not in the demo.

Even with my personal guitar bias, Your damn right a $4600 Gibson had better sound better than a $499 Epi all damn day long.

100 % Agree.  They also said the Epi's were  heavier which I think most people are aware of that if they are familiar with both brands.

[Sgt. Pepper]

8 minutes ago, kelly campbell said:

100 % Agree.  They also said the Epi's were  heavier which I think most people are aware of that if they are familiar with both brands.

None of the guitar stores around where I live carry Gibson (except GC, which is 45 mins away in Virginia Beach and over an hour away in Richmond), and they one will have a J-45 and may be a H-Bird and a J-15.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper