Poor fret work/binding

[rainydayman82@g]

3 minutes ago, NighthawkChris said:

No refret necessary.  If your neck - i.e. the WOOD - can be made straight via the truss rod, then the frets can be leveled.  And you have tons of life on those frets to allow for a small amount of material to come off as usually happens in a dressing. 

To verify the wood can be made straight, you need a notched straightedge, because if you do have high frets, a solid straightedge will not help you out. 

Overall, possibly a dressing is necessary and some fret end work.  After that, should be able to set it up to spec and adjust to your liking to get it in perfect shape.  Like I said, this isn't a "death sentence" for the guitar that some frets are out of whack.  When you have cracks, truss rod pinned, etc. these are what you worry about.  Everything  else can be fixed typically.  In your case, if it's only the frets, focus on that. 

Do you think a good luthier could fix up the unsightly binding? 

[NighthawkChris]

Just now, rainydayman82@g said:

Do you think a good luthier could fix up the unsightly binding? 

The only thing they could do is remove something.  If it is rounded enough, you could get it where the guitar functions where strings don't get caught on the sides of the fret - which is really what you're after.  You know Gibsons with binding on the neck have "nibs" which is that little tab-like thing that is supposed to smoothly cover up the fret ends.  If someone at the factory cut it too low, then you have a small nib.  I really hate this way of doing frets because everyone else just slaps a fret on the neck over the binding - i.e. no nib.  I have a 1994 LP Standard, and the nibs have near broken off and are so small now because it has gone through a couple dressings.  I am in need of a refret next time being that this guitar is coming up on 30 years. 

Overall, your luthier can smooth out the ends and no strings catch on the sides, it plays great.  May not look awesome, but it won't necessarily look bad.  But the short answer is yes, a luthier can make these fret ends much better with proper filing tools.  They can even do a small taper-like thing with the file to make the ends meet better with the nibs.  That's what my guy did for me and I've never been happier with the way the guitar plays/feels. 

[NighthawkChris]

Here's my 1994 LP Standard after a dressing.  Don't mind the fret sprout, it's a guitar that's again 27 years old give or take.  But you can see the nibs are nicely rounded into the fret end.  No catching going on here.  And to add, this guitar has been played pretty hard over the years, but nothing like a nice worn-in baseball mitt! 

[rainydayman82@g]

18 hours ago, NighthawkChris said:

No refret necessary.  If your neck - i.e. the WOOD - can be made straight via the truss rod, then the frets can be leveled.  And you have tons of life on those frets to allow for a small amount of material to come off as usually happens in a dressing. 

To verify the wood can be made straight, you need a notched straightedge, because if you do have high frets, a solid straightedge will not help you out. 

Overall, possibly a dressing is necessary and some fret end work.  After that, should be able to set it up to spec and adjust to your liking to get it in perfect shape.  Like I said, this isn't a "death sentence" for the guitar that some frets are out of whack.  When you have cracks, truss rod pinned, etc. these are what you worry about.  Everything  else can be fixed typically.  In your case, if it's only the frets, focus on that. 

Do you think a good luthier could fix up the unsightly binding? 

[rainydayman82@g]

Just so you know, the music store I bought the guitar from are coming to pick up the guitar to sort out the problem. 

I just want to say, I've been very impressed by this community. Everyone has been extremely helpful and I wish to say a big thank you to you all. I will keep you posted 

[Sgt. Pepper]

18 minutes ago, rainydayman82@g said:

Just so you know, the music store I bought the guitar from are coming to pick up the guitar to sort out the problem. 

I just want to say, I've been very impressed by this community. Everyone has been extremely helpful and I wish to say a big thank you to you all. I will keep you posted 

Outstanding.

[king_biscuit]

Hi all, new poster here.  I think the person scraping the paint off of the binding went a little deeper in some areas than others between the paint to binding transition, not at the fretboard side.  If the fretboard was as off as it would have to be for the unevenness to be up there, the guitar would be unplayable.  It's not best looking binding scrapping i've seen but it's not unusual for Gibson considering how these are done at the factory.  No human is going to get the binding shaping/scrapping perfect all of the time especially the number of guitars Gibson is putting out.  

[rainydayman82@g]

Update time: So, the dealer took the guitar back on a Thursday and called me back the next day to try to tell me the guitar was perfect. Obviously not perfect, so I told him what I thought was the problem/s with the guitar. So, a week later, the company sent me an email saying that the luthier had looked the guitar over and apart from a setup to intonate the guitar and a change of strings from 9s to 10s (better tuning stability apparently), nothing else had to be done. All on their dime and in the opinion of all of the shop workers, the guitar was perfect... So, okay. Gibson have also contacted me saying that although it looked like one of the workers had scraped off too much binding / fretboard, the binding is within tolerance and that it is a handmade instrument so it is to be expected. Here's the thing: I get the guitar back and far from having had a setup, change of strings and a lick of spit and polish, the guitar has had: the nut recut and reshaped, frets levelled, crowned and polished, fretboard conditioned and full setup. Also looks like they have done some filing work on the binding too. Don't know if it looks better or worse haha. Honestly, the thing plays better than ever, intonates and holds tune perfectly. It came out of the box in tune and I only had to tune up once between then and the next day despite heavy play instead of every other minute lol but wtf? The guitar is still not perfect in my eyes, even though we are talking nothing more than a cosmetic flaw now. It has been an annoying experience tbh. On one hand, I have the dealer downplaying what was clearly a B-stock guitar in the first place. God knows how many times the guitar had been sent out and rejected. Thinking about it, I bought the guitar in Sept 2020. The guitar was made in Feb 2019. I don't know how long it had been sitting around the factory/dealer but in this country the biggest supplier usually makes you wait at least 3-5 weeks before shipping you an SG Standard out due to their low availability. I made the mistake of just assuming this dealer had some when I now suspect, the ones they had were ones they were having difficulty offloading. Lame. I'll admit I should have been way more thorough and taken the guitar immediately to a luthier to have it checked out and sent back within the 14 day money back period. On the other hand, Gibson are doing nothing except saying 'send us the serial number and the name of the dealer' (biggest Gibson dealer in Spain lol) and 'we will alert QC' lololol. What to do brahs? 

 

I can't say I dislike the guitar but the whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't think I'll ever buy another Gibson again and as far as buying from that dealer ever again... Nah. Maybe I'm overthinking things but you live and learn. Thoughts? 

Edited February 16, 2021 by rainydayman82@g

[Eracer_Team]

I'm zooming in on my phone, I don't see much.

After you put some real milage on it, will the Nicks on the back and scratches from the pick on the front make you want to sell?

[rainydayman82@g]

20 hours ago, Eracer_Team said:

I'm zooming in on my phone, I don't see much.

After you put some real milage on it, will the Nicks on the back and scratches from the pick on the front make you want to sell?

With all due respect, maybe you need to get your eyes tested? 

Putting nicks, dings and scratches on a guitar is my prerogative not Gibson's. Compare this to ordering a fried egg in a restaurant and the chef breaking the yolk on your behalf. Your comment doesn't make any sense. 

At the price Gibson are charging, they should be aiming for perfection. It's not impossible. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by rainydayman82@g

[azzebra]

Recently picked up my first Gibson, a 60s LP.  While it plays and sounds great the person that cuts the binding with a razor blade was most certainly drunk. There are literally blade marks all over the fret board and binding. 
I thought about returning it or swapping it out, but then I might get one that doesn’t play as well or look as good, but still has the blade marks. In the end I decided that I can live with some terrible binding work if everything else is right.

If i was the ceo and saw a guitar like that I would walk down to binding cutting department and fire them straight away, as well as the qc person who let it by. 
Honestly, a kid that has never seen a guitar  or used a razor could probably cut binding better. 

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, azzebra said:

If i was the ceo and saw a guitar like that I would walk down to binding cutting department and fire them straight away, as well as the qc person who let it by. 
Honestly, a kid that has never seen a guitar  or used a razor could probably cut binding better. 

 

Gibson promotes them to lead binding scraper.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, azzebra said:

Recently picked up my first Gibson, a 60s LP.  While it plays and sounds great the person that cuts the binding with a razor blade was most certainly drunk. There are literally blade marks all over the fret board and binding. 
I thought about returning it or swapping it out, but then I might get one that doesn’t play as well or look as good, but still has the blade marks. In the end I decided that I can live with some terrible binding work if everything else is right.

If i was the ceo and saw a guitar like that I would walk down to binding cutting department and fire them straight away, as well as the qc person who let it by. 
Honestly, a kid that has never seen a guitar  or used a razor could probably cut binding better. 

 

I dunno, from what I've read in the past, at the Gibson factory there is a 2 year apprentice ship for any one to work on the bindings since it's all still done by hand. 

If that's true, and it probably is, seems that it's a pretty skilled job based on how they are still doing it, (No CNC, no automation)

I can get where that part of the build has some wiggle room for "What the???"  to happen.   But that doesn't make ya feel any better when it's your guitar.

[king_biscuit]

On 2/17/2021 at 8:27 AM, rainydayman82@g said:

 

At the price Gibson are charging, they should be aiming for perfection. It's not impossible. 

Gibson are not putting $2500 in their pockets for every LP sold.  Gibson sells Les Paul Standards to retailers for maybe 60 percent of MAP so for a $2500 LP, Gibson is getting maybe $1500.  Gibson needs to make a 40 to 50 percent profit on each instrument to stay in business so they need to make these for $750 to $900.  If it were easy to produce "perfect" "gibson" style guitars why can't companies like Collings sell them for $2500.00?    

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, king_biscuit said:

If it were easy to produce "perfect" "gibson" style guitars why can't companies like Collings sell them for $2500.00?    

yepp.. I agree.. that's pretty much the reality. 

[azzebra]

1 hour ago, king_biscuit said:

If it were easy to produce "perfect" "gibson" style guitars why can't companies like Collings sell them for $2500.00?    

It’s a good point, even the imported eastman’s are about 2000 bucks.

It does make me wonder though how much Gibson loses in returns and lost future sales by not addressing basic QC issues. At what point does it become worth it to tell the cutters to spend the extra time to do it right. 

 

[king_biscuit]

55 minutes ago, azzebra said:

At what point does it become worth it to tell the cutters to spend the extra time to do it right. 

 

Probably never.  There is still too much hand work done on them -- finish sanding of neck profiles on belt sanders, hand fitted necks, hand scraped binding, hand (final) shaped binding, binding nibs, etc...  Gibson can either charge more money like Collings and others and spend double the time making them, or get rid of some of the hand work being done and change the basic instrument.  They are selling them as fast as they can make them now, so I suspect things will keep rocking along.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by king_biscuit

[kidblast]

42 minutes ago, king_biscuit said:

Probably never.  There is still too much hand work done on them -- finish sanding of neck profiles on belt sanders, hand fitted necks, hand scraped binding, hand (final) shaped binding, binding nibs, etc...  Gibson can either charge more money like Collings and others and spend double the time making them, or get rid of some of the hand work being done and change the basic instrument.  They are selling them as fast as they can make them now, so I suspect things will keep rocking along.

 

 

it's a business risk they are willing to make, where one unhappy camper out of a few thousand are not going to make any one company their process.  When you consider the legacy and history in play here,, a few "Friday afternoon slip ups" are hardly a blip on the radar

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, azzebra said:

It does make me wonder though how much Gibson loses in returns and lost future sales by not addressing basic QC issues.

 

Nothing, Guitar Center just re- sells 'em.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[rainydayman82@g]

Hi, 

 

Just to let it be known, Gibson took the guitar back and the dealer gave me a full refund. 

Despite the problem, Gibson were spot on and didn't hesitate to do what was right. The dealer on the other hand... 

Now I am one guitar down with 1300€ burning a hole in pocket.. What do? 

[rainydayman82@g]

15 hours ago, Fish Crumpet said:

Buy a Fender.

Ha, I already have one. Don't know which is worse, Gibson or Fender. Do you want it? 

[merciful-evans]

1 hour ago, rainydayman82@g said:

Ha, I already have one. Don't know which is worse, Gibson or Fender. Do you want it? 

There are plenty of other brands & choices. 

[kidblast]

19 hours ago, rainydayman82@g said:

Now I am one guitar down with 1300€ burning a hole in pocket.. What do? 

Maybe Check out the Gretsch Korean made Electromatics, well inside  in the budget you're planning. 

I have a bunch of gibsons and fenders and these are kind of their own thing.

Well made, good hardware,  nice axes.

[rainydayman82@g]

2 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

There are plenty of other brands & choices. 

I was considering the reverend sensei

[Lungimsam]

Guild S-100