QC Issue with new J45?

[jeffroel]

Hi everyone,

 

So I've bought a beautiful J45 standard, made just a month ago (the date on the qc check is 4/2). Everything has been great, and the sound is just glorious, but I've caught something a bit strange that seems like a QC issue.

As you can see in the picture, there's a dark spot near the 10th fret, that I'm not sure if it's the rosewood filled or if it's lacquer that can be stripped to give it a "normal" look.

I'm not returning the guitar (as it sounds and plays just amazing) but who knows if there's a fix for this or if I just have to live with it. Any thoughts/experiences?

Regards!!

[duluthdan]

I’d ignore that. It’s wood. As you play the guitar it will take on more and more of its own beauty marks. Congrats on the new J45, it’s a transcendental instrument. 

[RBSinTo]

Jeff,

It obviously bothers you enough that you took the time to comment here. So why not speak to the dealer? 

Perhaps you can swap it for another one that sounds equally good, or even get a bit of a discount on the original price for the slight cosmetic imperfection.

Worth a shot.

RBSinTo

[Sgt. Pepper]

In a room full of J-45's you will know without a doubt which one is yours.

[kidblast]

Looks like it might be just an artifact of the open pour structure of rosewood.    looks 100% cosmetic  based on your review, you may be sorry if you exchange it for one that doesn't have THAT particular flaw.   There is no guarantee that the next one won't have something else you'll find, or for what ever reason, just not sound or feel as good.

It might be worth a discussion with the dealer,  but if everything else is spot on, I might just look beyond it.

one thought,, the wood in the close up looks pretty dry.  have you an fretboard conditioner?   If you've yet to change the strings, maybe it's time to treat the fret board with some Guitar Honey, F1 Fretboard oil, or any one of the myriad of products available conditioning fretboards. 

Some hydration of the rosewood may make that little blem you have far less noticeable.

Edited March 8, 2021 by kidblast

[Leonard McCoy]

Can you feel the spot protruding? If so, it might be the odd lacquer or glue spot of which an application of acetone would make quick work. It might also have been a marred spot in the fretboard, or damaged at the factory during production, and which was subsequently filled with rosewood dust and super glue as a form of cosmetic repair.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Leonard McCoy

[Sgt. Pepper]

29 minutes ago, Leonard McCoy said:

 It might also have been a marred spot in the fretboard, or damaged at the factory during production, and which was subsequently filled with rosewood dust and super glue as a form of cosmetic repair.

If it were mine and I found out a guitar manufacturer did that as a fix, I would be beyond p-issed. Its a $2700 American made guitar not a $450 Chinese made one.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[bobouz]

Your board does look very dry.  This sometimes happens with a given piece of wood & is not a big deal.  Imho, Fret Doctor is the best fretboard conditioning product on the market (available on eBay).  Treat the board before doing anything else.  After treatment, the dark spot might balance out with the rest of the board to the point that it becomes a non issue for you - and you can go back to just enjoying your new guitar!

[jeffroel]

Hi everyone,

thanks for the responses. The guitar is brand new and i haven’t changed the strings yet. I will and i will condition the fretboard 👍👍

1 hour ago, Leonard McCoy said:

Can you feel the spot protruding? If so, it might be the odd lacquer or glue spot of which an application of acetone would make quick work. It might also have been a marred spot in the fretboard, or damaged at the factory during production, and which was subsequently filled with rosewood dust and super glue as a form of cosmetic repair.

That’s something i was thinking after writing before. I’m not sure how common this is for a fresh out of the factory guitar, and I have mixed feelings about a guitar this price with this kind of QC. I have other electric Gibsons and I have no issue with the hand made binding or lacquer imperfections, but this kind of fretboard “issue” is new for me.

I will talk with the dealer to try to sort it out, although the guitar really plays and sounds great.
 

[sbpark]

Just get a tiny bottle of mineral oil from the pharmacy. Use a lint free cotton cloth (old t-shirt) and use a couple drops for the entire fretboard. You'll think it won't be enough but it will be more than enough. After 20-30 mins go back and use the cloth to wipe off the excess. 

Don't know what yo tell you about the blew. If the guitar sounds good I wouldn't even worry about it.  Maybe talk with the dealer and see what they offer. They might just offer you some money back so they don't have to deal with it. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by sbpark

[Sgt. Pepper]

Here is the thing. If that was a post of a NDG and it was a Martin or Taylor or any other brand but Gibson you fan boys would be dumping all over it like you just ate a sheet pan of brownie's laced with laxatives, but since its  Gibson its okay and you would keep it and just rub some snake oil on it and its fine. Call a t-urd a t-urd  and own up that no one makes perfect guitars no matter what name is on the head stock. It s a $2700 guitar that make it through QC that probably shouldn't.  Remember Only A Gibson Is Good Enough. Dump on me or ban me I could care less. I'm tired of the BS double standard . Does Martin have issues of course they do humans make guitars not gods. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[E-minor7]

 Okay the picture is 3:1 or something like that, but the black mark is still there. I probably wouldn't care - especially not if the guitar sounds like a dream.                                                             Looks a bit like filler. No matter what give it oil and see what happens. You don't want it to click off, , , yet it's not a hard thing to fix. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by E-minor7

[jeffroel]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm currently talking with the dealer to see what can be done. Right now I'm inclined to return it and get a new one (or at least see if the dealer is willing to make some adjustment on the price of the guitar). As I said, I'm not usually picky and I can get some lacquer imperfections, uneven bindings and that kind of stuff that comes from the work made by hand. This on the other hand seems like an issue with the rosewood of the board that has been masked with some filler (something I would be ok if it was a second hand guitar, but not on a new one)

 

Some more pics where you can see it's the rosewood filled.

 

 

[kidblast]

I think you're doing the right thing for your own peace of mind, it's cosmetic yes, but it's something you'll see all the time.

I have to admit that really does look odd, not sure why that one got out the door like that.

 

[bobouz]

8 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Here is the thing. If that was a post of a NDG and it was a Martin or Taylor or any other brand but Gibson you fan boys would be dumping all over it like you just ate a sheet pan of brownie's laced with laxatives, but since its  Gibson its okay and you would keep it and just rub some snake oil on it and its fine. Call a t-urd a t-urd  and own up that no one makes perfect guitars no matter what name is on the head stock. It s a $2700 guitar that make it through QC that probably shouldn't.  Remember Only A Gibson Is Good Enough. Dump on me or ban me I could care less. I'm tired of the BS double standard . Does Martin have issues of course they do humans make guitars not gods. 

No double standard as far as I'm concerned.  Dismissing Taylor here because I've never paid any attention to them, but I've paid a lot of attention to Martin in the past & have owned quite a few.  I think it's fair to say that there's a common perception by many that Martin's build quality is beyond reproach, and Gibson's is typically sloppy.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle of the spectrum for both companies, rather than at the extremes.

Based on the first pictures posted in this thread, I could not tell exactly what was going on with the fretboard, other than it appears to be very dry, and it seemed that an application of Fret Doctor might even the area out.  I've had fretboards (including Brazilian rosewood) that have had odd looking areas & have evened out nicely after being properly treated - thus the suggestion.

With the OP's additional pictures, it's pretty clear that there's something abnormal with this small area of the fretboard.  If the guitar were mine and I liked the tone & playability enough to want to keep it, I absolutely would be asking for a 15% discount (in fact I've done this in the past with a Gibson I wanted to keep which had an area of orange peel in the finish.  I pointed this out to the dealer, was given the discount, and kept the guitar).  But we all have to decide what's reasonable for ourselves.  I know that if I had bought a brand new Martin Authentic and it needed to have a neck reset after a few years, or had the binding pop off, or had the bridge lift, I'd be so pissed to have to mess with the repair that to my eye it would forever look like a piece of crap & I'd probably sell it.  But that's just me & my circumstances, as I'd have to travel multiple times to the big city or ship the guitar.

In your case FZ/SP, you've found that Martins work for you, and their your preferred brand of guitar.  You're a Martin fanboy when it comes to acoustics, and that's great.  I'm a happily satisfied Gibson fanboy because they consistently work best for my style of playing.  I participate on this forum because I enjoy sharing information about Gibsons, and learning new info about them.  Don't know why you hang out here, but maybe try to dial back the indignation a bit, relax, & enjoy the company.  In these many years, that's clearly never been your baseline shtick - but a slightly mellower reboot might add some additional playing days to your life!       

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, jeffroel said:

Hi everyone,

 

I'm currently talking with the dealer to see what can be done. Right now I'm inclined to return it and get a new one (or at least see if the dealer is willing to make some adjustment on the price of the guitar). As I said, I'm not usually picky and I can get some lacquer imperfections, uneven bindings and that kind of stuff that comes from the work made by hand. This on the other hand seems like an issue with the rosewood of the board that has been masked with some filler (something I would be ok if it was a second hand guitar, but not on a new one)

 

Some more pics where you can see it's the rosewood filled.

 

 

Every time there is QC issue here many say the same thing. That its okay and they would keep it. Would you really? And if you do your just accepting the fact  that you would accept something that is sub standard, and like I said we all know its $2700 guitar and to me that is not acceptable. Like I said Martin has their issues too. I wont deny that. And I have owned Gibson's lots of em. This may be someones first Gibson ever.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Every time there is QC issue here many say the same thing. That its okay and they would keep it. Would you really? And if you do your just accepting the fact  that you would accept something that is sub standard, and like I said we all know its $2700 guitar and to me that is not acceptable. Like I said Martin has their issues too. I wont deny that. And I have owned Gibson's lots of em. This may be someones first Gibson ever.

I really don't think that's always the case Sarge,   there's usually enough people who say "send it back" verses the ones that say "I'd live with it"

Cosmetics are a toss up really, but the one in this post,  everything else would have to be spot which is what a lot of people are saying.

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by kidblast

[Sgt. Pepper]

8 minutes ago, kidblast said:

I really don't think that's always the case Sarge,   there's usually enough people who say "send it back" verses the ones that say "I'd live with it"

Cosmetics are a toss up really, but the one in this post,  everything else would have to be spot which is what a lot of people are saying.

Yeah there are a few "send it back" guys, but usually when it is stated by the owner that the guitar sounds good that is when"I'd keep it" is most likely said. Like it is the only one in the world that Gibson ever built or will build that has ever sounded good.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[zombywoof]

Lawdy have mercy.  I grabbed my 1942 J50 last night to have a go at Blind Lemon Jefferson's "Mosquito Blues"  and once again it hit me that this guitar is a poster child build screwups.   The bracing looks like it was  whittled with a dull pen knife while one of the book matched top pieces was accidentally flip flopped.  Yet no matter how many years I have owned it, when I pull the guitar from its case and hit the low end strings I hear a timbre that is more akin to a stand up bass than a guitar and I utter a silent "whoa" and a "thank you" to those ladies who built it.

So, if the issue with the guitar is something that can be taken are of under warranty then go for it.  But if the sound makes this guitar your "once in a blue moon Gibson" (which mine has been described as)   do not lose a second of sleep over it and embrace it as a quirk of that individual build.

[Jinder]

This kind of thing is so subjective. It doesn't matter whether it would bother US, what matters is whether it bothers YOU. Personally, I haven't bought a guitar new for quite a while...even the ones I own that I was the first purchaser of (2015 SJ200 and 2016 Maple AJ) were kicking around in stores for a year or two before I liberated 'em, so I am used to dings and dents. All of my guitars are road instruments so tend to show their age after a couple of years anyway. That sort of thing wouldn't trouble me at all, but I'm not you.

All of my blather is irrelevant compared to your experience-if you bought your J45 as a home use instrument to be kept pristine or an investment-grade keeper/heirloom, you're absolutely right to be aggrieved by that spot that you can't keep your eye away from. 

I know exactly how it is...that fixation on the one thing that isn't quite right can drive you insane. If you can't live with it, I'd recommend returning it and seeking a replacement from your dealer. Make sure you play them side by side first though so you don't trade a slightly cosmetically imperfect tonal dreamboat for a pristine duffer!

[fortyearspickn]

My old LG1 had marks on that after I dinged it with the Hamilton capo.  Sort of unavoidable if the fretboard isn't bound.   Your mark, albeit magnified 3x, is something many wouldn't notice in the store.  Having had it for just a month - the store should be willing to deal with you.  Impossible for most here to tell from photos what is going on -   it's either a naturally occurring imperfection in the wood or a man made ding,  either of which may or may not have been cosmetically doctored a bit.  

Knot Hole or Not Whole ?    You decide.  

Doctor Pepper would  call it a wholly different kind of hole. 

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Yeah there are a few "send it back" guys, but usually when it is stated by the owner that the guitar sounds good that is when"I'd keep it" is most likely said. Like it is the only one in the world that Gibson ever built or will build that has ever sounded good.

yea,, there is that.  But as an acoustic guy,, you know that one is not always equal of the other. 

My first J200 I got in 2016 was nice, The pickup was defective , this wasn't something one could "live with" 

Stuart at Sweetwater sent me another one immediately, so now I had two, with 30 days to send one back.

The replacement didn't quite have the same level of flamed maple on the back that the 1st one had.   Had I known then what I no now, I would have swapped out the Anthem Module to see if that's where the problem was.   They were both setup identical, and they sounded pretty much the same.  I had them side by side for about 48 hours. 

So to my point, --  I would have been not able to tell one from the other feel and sound wise, (unplugged)

OTOH, in 2005, when not even looking for a guitar we were in Burlington Vermont for a quick get away with my son and his wife. 

There happened to be a huge music store in town we visited. I played about 5 Taylor Grand Symphony models which were new offerings from Taylor that year.    I happened on one that had cedar Top, hog back and sides.   It blew my socks off.  I bought it totally on impulse.  Still have it, and still love it.

[sbpark]

12 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Here is the thing. If that was a post of a NDG and it was a Martin or Taylor or any other brand but Gibson you fan boys would be dumping all over it like you just ate a sheet pan of brownie's laced with laxatives, but since its  Gibson its okay and you would keep it and just rub some snake oil on it and its fine. Call a t-urd a t-urd  and own up that no one makes perfect guitars no matter what name is on the head stock. It s a $2700 guitar that make it through QC that probably shouldn't.  Remember Only A Gibson Is Good Enough. Dump on me or ban me I could care less. I'm tired of the BS double standard . Does Martin have issues of course they do humans make guitars not gods. 

Troll's gonna troll...

"I'm tired of the BS double standard."  You're so brave! Such a rebel to speak up! 🤦‍♂️

Edited March 9, 2021 by sbpark

[sbpark]

ANd for the record, this isn't about brand loyalty, even if you are on a Gibson board. I've had some pretty crappy experiences with Martin, one of them involving a D18 I bought brand new and it needed a neck reset after 6 months. Martin fought really hard to not authorize a neck reset, and after taking it to a couple official Martin Repair shops, I finally took it to one that has a VERY long relationship with Martin and essentially called them out on this guitar. They finally agreed to cover it, but didn't want to initially. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, sbpark said:

ANd for the record, this isn't about brand loyalty, even if you are on a Gibson board. I've had some pretty crappy experiences with Martin, one of them involving a D18 I bought brand new and it needed a neck reset after 6 months. Martin fought really hard to not authorize a neck reset, and after taking it to a couple official Martin Repair shops, I finally took it to one that has a VERY long relationship with Martin and essentially called them out on this guitar. They finally agreed to cover it, but didn't want to initially. 

If you read one of my post I think I mention Martin has issues to. Look these things are made by humans and not angels. Nothing is ever perfect. If you think this is the first thread I have read about this your out of your mind. It comes up here and I am sure on every forum when a new guitar has issues. 

But do any of you guys believe a 2700 dollar guitar should have left like that. Yes or No? And if you would keep it then you would keep it. If I received a NEW Martin in that condition,  you are d-amn right it goes back.

And 40 years what relevance does marks from a capo you put on a guitar have to do with any of this?  My Shubb  capo does not mar any of my necks. You did that not Gibson. I guess with 40 years of picking  behind you, you chose the wrong capo.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper