QC Issue with new J45?

[Sgt. Pepper]

4 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

If you read one of my post I think I mention Martin has issues to. Its always the neck reset and binding popping off. Look these things are made by humans and not angels. Nothing is ever perfect. If you think this is the first thread I have read about this your out of your mind. It comes up here and I am sure on every forum I  hve been on when a new guitar has issues. 

But do any of you guys believe a 2700 dollar guitar should have left like that. Yes or No? And if you would keep it then you would keep it. If I received a NEW Martin in that condition,  you are d-amn right it goes back.

And 40 years what relevance does marks from a capo you put on a guitar have to do with any of this?  My Shubb  capo does not mar any of my necks. You did that not Gibson. I guess with 40 years of picking  behind you, you chose the wrong capo.

 

[sbpark]

22 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

If you read one of my post I think I mention Martin has issues to. Look these things are made by humans and not angels. Nothing is ever perfect. If you think this is the first thread I have read about this your out of your mind. It comes up here and I am sure on every forum when a new guitar has issues. 

But do any of you guys believe a 2700 dollar guitar should have left like that. Yes or No? And if you would keep it then you would keep it. If I received a NEW Martin in that condition,  you are d-amn right it goes back.

And 40 years what relevance does marks from a capo you put on a guitar have to do with any of this?  My Shubb  capo does not mar any of my necks. You did that not Gibson. I guess with 40 years of picking  behind you, you chose the wrong capo.

We can agree to disagree, especially regarding your statement of if it was another brand of guitar we'd send it right back since many in this thread said they'd just live with it if it was their guitar, but Seems like you know better than there rest of us. You always appear to have a problem with a lot of members here, always expressing your disapproval of statements made on this form. Makes me wonder why you're even here and very active on this forum. Why even bother to continue to get fed up and upset and constantly fight with people and accuse them of being liars, biased, etc. 

And dare I say, NOBODY is paying $2,700 for a J45 Standard. That's the retail price, but as we all know you can get them for much less. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by sbpark

[Dave F]

I'm fairly forgiving on some issues. I've sent a couple Gibson's back to the factory with great results. This fretboard issue would eat away at me eventually. I would return or exchange it. 

[rct]

Looks like a dealer/employee case latch ding hastily repaired by dealer/employee.

rct

[SteveFord]

I'm with rct, somebody dinged it.

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, sbpark said:

We can agree to diagree, especially regarding your statement of if it was another brand of guitar we'd send it right back since many ion this thread said they'd just live with it if it was their guitar, but Seems like you know better than there rest of us. Seems like you always have a problem with a lot of members here, always expressing your disapproval of statements made on this form. Makes me wonder why you're even here and very active on this forum. Why even bother to continue to get fed up and upset and constantly fight with people and accuse them of being liars, biased, etc. 

And dare I say, NOBODY is paying $2,700 for a J45 Standard. That's the retail price, but as we all know you can get them for much less. 

I certainly do not know better than the rest of you, but if you would keep it, then you would keep it. I would not if it was any maker including my favorite one, I'm just an dumb hack who plays these things with big holes in them. Call me a troll I could care less. I own some killer stuff and I know now it. I could care less what anyone thinks. 

Here is what they go for at SW. You may get a break on em but here is the price on their website. I'm to stupid to do a price search apparently .

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RS45VSN19--gibson-acoustic-j-45-standard-vintage-sunburst

So what maybe $2400. Okay I'll take the guitar at that price with a big chunk out of the fretboard for $300 off. Get a clue.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[fortyearspickn]

3 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

If you read one of my post I think I mention Martin has issues to. Look these things are made by humans and not angels. Nothing is ever perfect. If you think this is the first thread I have read about this your out of your mind. It comes up here and I am sure on every forum when a new guitar has issues. 

But do any of you guys believe a 2700 dollar guitar should have left like that. Yes or No? And if you would keep it then you would keep it. If I received a NEW Martin in that condition,  you are d-amn right it goes back.

And 40 years what relevance does marks from a capo you put on a guitar have to do with any of this?  My Shubb  capo does not mar any of my necks. You did that not Gibson. I guess with 40 years of picking  behind you, you chose the wrong capo.

 

Dr,  I use kyser and thalia now - the Hamilton was what was popular 50 years ago.   I'll connect the dots for you:   Mark looks exactly like the ding you get from a capo.  Someone in the store may have put a capo on it. Or after the sale.   Might not be a Gibson QC issue.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

Just now, fortyearspickn said:

 

Dr,  I use kyser and thalia now - the Hamilton was what was popular 50 years ago.   I'll connect the dots for you:   Mark looks exactly like the ding you get from a capo.  Someone in the store may have put a capo on it. Or after the sale.   Might not be a Gibson QC issue.  

Well how can you  tell with your expertise knowledge know who did it. It certainly wasn't the owner. Can you sent me a picture cause reading is hard like math. 50 years ago I was 4, but according to you I was at Zappa concerts.

[Mr. Gibson]

It looks like someone dropped it or whatever and tried to hide their crime with black marker. Send it back.

 

[bobouz]

Unless the OP can confirm that he received the guitar in Gibson’s original & unopened shipping box, there’s no way to know where the damage occurred with any certainty.

[jeffroel]

1 hour ago, bobouz said:

Unless the OP can confirm that he received the guitar in Gibson’s original & unopened shipping box, there’s no way to know where the damage occurred with any certainty.

I got the guitar directly from the dealer but the box has been already opened (I guess for them to check the guitar...)

I'm talking with the dealer and their first response has been that this is something to be expected from a hand made Gibson guitar. I've asked for a replacement and I'm expecting to solve this issue in the next days.

 

Regarding the discussion about QC and Gibson. Although this is my first Gibson Acoustic, I've had 10+ Gibson electric guitars ranging from some "low end" faded series to a '59 historic. I0ve encountered some minor finish issues but nothing like this. My opinion is that Gibson QC is not as bad as the internet says, but of course it's not perfect.

I don't think any manufacturer is free from some issue slipping through QC, so I don't see it as a big issue as long as both the brand and the dealers manage it as it should.

[ksdaddy]

A friend owns a music store. A couple years ago a customer wanted an HD-28 and said if my friend could match the online price, he’d buy from him. He called a couple other stores (that he was “buddies” with) and one offered him a new HD-28 from store stock for a good enough price where he could match the online price and still make a little. It showed up with a ding in the headstock. A ding... that somehow happened in shipping while it was inside a hardshell case. The end customer liked the guitar enough to buy it regardless, but I saw through the shenanigans and saw how my friend the store owner was a patsy, passing along damaged goods while the original dealer likely already got a significant price adjustment from Martin without even sending it back. 
 

The point is, don’t automatically blame the manufacturers and also assume the dealers are pure as the driven snow. 

[kidblast]

3 hours ago, ksdaddy said:

A friend owns a music store. A couple years ago a customer wanted an HD-28 and said if my friend could match the online price, he’d buy from him. He called a couple other stores (that he was “buddies” with) and one offered him a new HD-28 from store stock for a good enough price where he could match the online price and still make a little. It showed up with a ding in the headstock. A ding... that somehow happened in shipping while it was inside a hardshell case. The end customer liked the guitar enough to buy it regardless, but I saw through the shenanigans and saw how my friend the store owner was a patsy, passing along damaged goods while the original dealer likely already got a significant price adjustment from Martin without even sending it back. 
 

The point is, don’t automatically blame the manufacturers and also assume the dealers are pure as the driven snow. 

this for sure..  All stores at one time or another will have been be guilty of their own shenanigans.  

 

[Paul14]

“I'm talking with the dealer and their first response has been that this is something to be expected from a hand made Gibson guitar. I've asked for a replacement and I'm expecting to solve this issue in the next days.”

It’s not something I would expect from a handmade Gibson guitar. What are they saying? Handmade is not as good as machine made guitars? Give me a break. Hope you get this sorted out.

[ALD323]

On 3/9/2021 at 4:51 AM, jeffroel said:

Hi everyone,

 

I'm currently talking with the dealer to see what can be done. Right now I'm inclined to return it and get a new one (or at least see if the dealer is willing to make some adjustment on the price of the guitar). As I said, I'm not usually picky and I can get some lacquer imperfections, uneven bindings and that kind of stuff that comes from the work made by hand. This on the other hand seems like an issue with the rosewood of the board that has been masked with some filler (something I would be ok if it was a second hand guitar, but not on a new one)

 

Some more pics where you can see it's the rosewood filled.

 

 

I can only tell you that this defect you are showing, and that is what this is, a defect, and it would never be acceptable to me on an over $2700 Gibson, Martin or Tayor guitar. Back it would go, and pronto, tone or no tone, good sound or no good sound...BACK it would go! Don't let people tell you defects don't matter if the guitar sounds good. They DO matter, and you will look at that defect for the rest of your life, and hate it knowing you paid upwards of $3000 for a fret board which should have been reserved for a $99.00 Epiphone where such defects are acceptable. 

[kidblast]

18 hours ago, SteveFord said:

I'm with rct, somebody dinged it.

yea.. I think he nailed..

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yeah but regardless if Gibson did it or the store it came from. I'm sending it back. You might not.

Would any of you take possession of a brand new car with the front fender dented? Or accept a pair of pants you bought on Amazon with the a-ss ripped out? I'll bet the answer is NO, so why would anyone accept that on a new guitar regardless of it was the builders fault or the store it came from?

Edited March 11, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[RBSinTo]

41 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Yeah but regardless if Gibson did it or the store it came from. I'm sending it back. You might not.

Would any of you take possession of a brand new car with the front fender dented? Or accept a pair of pants you bought on Amazon with the a-ss ripped out? I'll bet the answer is NO, so why would anyone accept that on a new guitar regardless of it was the builders fault or the store it came from?

Chief,

I couldn't have said it better myself. Oh wait. I think I did.

RBSinTo

[E-minor7]

18 hours ago, jeffroel said:

I've asked for a replacement and I'm expecting to solve this issue in the next days.

Well, as it seriously annoys you, the only right thing to do. I look forward to hear how close the 2 guitars will be to each other soundwise. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Well, as it seriously annoys you, the only right thing to do. I look forward to hear how close the 2 guitars will be to each other soundwise. 

It doesn't annoy you cause it didn't happen to you, and you are probably one of the "I would just keep it" guys.

The J-45 has been in constant production since 1942 unless I am wrong. So its not like he took possession of the only one that has ever been or will be on this planet. Mars may only have one. I'll have to ask an astronaut if I see one walking around the place I work.

[RBSinTo]

8 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Well, as it seriously annoys you, the only right thing to do. I look forward to hear how close the 2 guitars will be to each other soundwise. 

And exactly what method do you recommend he use to make that comparison and convey it in words (no less) so we can all understand?

Is there an an agreed upon standard model guitar for the sound of spruce/mahogany guitars kept carefully locked away in a vault at The Bureau of Standards, whose electronic voiceprint we use to judge and compare all others?

Or are we to assume it will be by the owner expressing more of the nebulous and essentially meaningless, silly phrases we've seen in other threads here  explaining in words how a musical instrument sounds, in somewhat in the same mode as the pretentious wine-loving crowd use words to explain the taste of wine?

My vote goes to " I liked the sound of the dinged one, and I like the sound of the replacement just as much".

RBSinTo

[kidblast]

until it's setup, the chances are it really wouldn't matter one for another.  Like I said, I had two new 2016 J200s,, the only differences were in the cosmetic aspects with the degree of flame with the maple back and sides.  

[bobouz]

Guitars are not cookie cutter, and value is in the eyes, ears, and hands of the beholder - with each of us having our own unique criteria.  For those of you whose criteria in considering a new instrument requires visual perfection, there's a high probability that you someday will or have passed on a instrument that is, imho, significantly superior where it counts - tone and/or playability.  If a guitar sounds & feels like a keeper, but has a visual flaw and I want to keep it, I've already stated that I would - and in fact have - asked for a 15% discount and received it.

I've played way way way more guitars that did nothing for me, compared to the few that make me weak in the knees with their tone, or feel perfect in hand.  I paid $400 more for my 2012 natural finish ES-330 VOS compared to the going price of all the sunburst & red ones I played.  $400 was the markup for the natural finish version at that time.   After playing a bunch of them, I immediately knew that particular guitar would end all my 330 lust, vintage or new.  To this day, it remains my most treasured electric.  Was I thrilled to shell out $400 more for the natural finish version?  Of course not, but it was the right guitar & I fortunately had the opportunity to buy it.  Same with my 2002 J-45 Rosewood.  Even though there are a bazillion J-45s out there, and it feels like I've played a million of them, this one guitar has a tone that appeals to me like no other example I've ever come across, and it also just happens to have the neck profile I prefer.  This guitar too will never leave my side.

So flip the equation on it's head.  Would you be satisfied paying, let's say, $2500 or more for a dime-a-dozen mediocre but visually perfect example?  Not me.  Those are the ones I pass on every time.  Of course if you don't play enough of them, you'll have a limited frame of reference & can remain in blissful ignorance.  Put your trophy-wife on a guitar stand & stare at her all day.

The examples of any model that register at the high end of the bell curve are far & few between.  They don't come along often, but when they do, you want to be smart enough to realize it.         

Edited March 11, 2021 by bobouz

[Dave F]

38 minutes ago, bobouz said:

Guitars are not cookie cutter, and value is in the eyes, ears, and hands of the beholder - with each of us having our own unique criteria.  For those of you whose criteria in considering a new instrument requires visual perfection, there's a high probability that you someday will or have passed on a instrument that is, imho, significantly superior where it counts - tone and/or playability.  If a guitar sounds & feels like a keeper, but has a visual flaw and I want to keep it, I've already stated that I would - and in fact have - asked for a 15% discount and received it.

I've played way way way more guitars that did nothing for me, compared to the few that make me weak in the knees with their tone, or feel perfect in hand.  I paid $400 more for my 2012 natural finish ES-330 VOS compared to the going price of all the sunburst & red ones I played.  $400 was the markup for the natural finish version at that time.   After playing a bunch of them, I immediately knew that particular guitar would end all my 330 lust, vintage or new.  To this day, it remains my most treasured electric.  Was I thrilled to shell out $400 more for the natural finish version?  Of course not, but it was the right guitar & I fortunately had the opportunity to buy it.  Same with my 2002 J-45 Rosewood.  Even though there are a bazillion J-45s out there, and it feels like I've played a million of them, this one guitar has a tone that appeals to me like no other example I've ever come across, and it also just happens to have the neck profile I prefer.  This guitar too will never leave my side.

So flip the equation on it's head.  Would you be satisfied paying, let's say, $2500 or more for a dime-a-dozen mediocre but visually perfect example?  Not me.  Those are the ones I pass on every time.  Of course if you don't play enough of them, you'll have a limited frame of reference & can remain in blissful ignorance.  Put your trophy-wife on a guitar stand & stare at her all day.

The examples of any model that register at the high end of the bell curve are far & few between.  They don't come along often, but when they do, you want to be smart enough to realize it.         

Total agreement. My Nick Lucas bought new was sent back to the factory for a new bridge plate replacement because I felt it was special compared to other guitars I have played. Within the year the bridge lifted but I had my local luthier fix that. He also pointed out the internal flaws of the purfling but again this guitar feels, plays and sounds special to me. The OP pictures showed me a very poor repair job. Personally I would send it back or if it felt that special I would get my luthier to look at. The visual does not concern me but a small chunk possibly coming off would plus I would be concerned about possibly selling it sometime in the future. 

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

And exactly what method do you recommend he use to make that comparison and convey it in words (no less) so we can all understand?

Don't recommend any special type, style or design of review. If I should suggest anything it would be that the owner of the then 2 slopes uses his own words to describe his subjective experience of the variations - sonically, feel-wise and regarding appearance . They may differ or they may not - all possibilities are realistic, , , and exciting. It can be a challenge to get things like that down on paper, but there should be a lot of inspiration to be found on these pages. Perhaps not needed at all.   

Edited March 11, 2021 by E-minor7