USA Firebird being discontinued?

[Coachmoe]

Greetings!

I am hoping some admin from Gibson can shed some light on this subject: Are USA Production Firebird models being discontinued for 2021 / 2022?

Scuttlebutt on several FB Firebird groups indicates that this is going to happen.  This would just be USA production as there are several CS models of Firebirds currently listed as available on the Gibson site.

Hopefully someone in the know has some inside info concerning this?

Thanks in advance.

[Rabs]

Unlikely anyone from Gibson will comment.

All I know is they said they are keeping the core line up the same and not changing it yearly like they were...  Still a USA Firebird up on the site, no reason to think they will stop making them but who knows.

Gibson | Firebird - Tobacco Burst

[Coachmoe]

Rabs, 

Hoping the scuttlebutt is just that. Speculation is that it will be discontinued based on the success / quality of the Epiphone Inspired By Gibson Firebird. SUPPOSEDLY, Mark Agnesi made some comments alluding to the fact that Gibson wants to strengthen the Epiphone line. 

Hopefully, somebody else will chime in at some point.

[Rabs]

Id say they have already done that with Epiphone... It depends on when exactly he was stated as saying this as Epi came out with the Inspired by Gibson line with the new more "Gibsony" style headstock and I think they pretty much mimic the USA line up.. Some threads on that in the Lounge a while back... So if it was after that and he says they want to do more then maybe.. I think Gibson will be a bit silly to let the Epis get too close or why would anyone bother buying  a Gibson?  The prices on guitars in general very much including the used market are getting silly. But at the same time theres now some really decent cheaper stuff out there probably more choice than there has ever ben before. So its all swings and roundabouts isnt it.

Epiphone Launches "Inspired By Gibson" - The Gibson Lounge - Gibson Brands Forums

Edited March 9, 2021 by Rabs

[SteveFord]

I would hope not.

They finally got the pick ups right and offset that by screwing up the head stock.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Is the Fire Bird X coming back. We need some more guitars to run over with Excavator.

[Larry W]

2 hours ago, SteveFord said:

I would hope not.

They finally got the pick ups right and offset that by screwing up the head stock.

That "new" flat head face is awful.   I would buy one if it had the normal head.  Loosing the banjo tuners was bad enough, but now this is even worse.

 

[Coachmoe]

21 minutes ago, Larry W said:

That "new" flat head face is awful.   I would buy one if it had the normal head.  Loosing the banjo tuners was bad enough, but now this is even worse.

 

I am not a fan of the flat headstock BUT, there were some originals in 65 that had the flat design.  My FB 1 has a flat one and I’m good with that.   This pic is an original 65 transitional. If they DO discontinue the USA Birds, the good news is that there are lots of used ones out there.

[Lamar Fandango]

Musicians Friend says that the 2021 Gibson USA Firebird will be available in July. But like a few others noted, they screwed up with the new "Inspired by Epiphone" headstock on a $2,000 guitar. Bad pickups can be swapped, a bad headstock design cannot be swapped. Off to the used market it is....

As an aside... I see that Gibson is focusing heavily on the Custom Shop Firebirds. Are they unaware that Kauer makes a much better bird, or is Gibson trying to take some of that market back with their Murphys Oil Lab? I'm a Gibson man, but I don't see Gibson making a guitar better than the Banshee, and definitely not for $3,000. 

[Coachmoe]

33 minutes ago, Lamar Fandango said:

Musicians Friend says that the 2021 Gibson USA Firebird will be available in July. But like a few others noted, they screwed up with the new "Inspired by Epiphone" headstock on a $2,000 guitar. Bad pickups can be swapped, a bad headstock design cannot be swapped. Off to the used market it is....

As an aside... I see that Gibson is focusing heavily on the Custom Shop Firebirds. Are they unaware that Kauer makes a much better bird, or is Gibson trying to take some of that market back with their Murphys Oil Lab? I'm a Gibson man, but I don't see Gibson making a guitar better than the Banshee, and definitely not for $3,000. 

Lamar, with all due respect, there were Firebirds built in the 1965 year with flat headstocks. Obviously, the flat headstock is aimed at cutting production costs and many people don't like banjos. I have no problem with the flat headstock, I've got a 2019 FB I and one of the Epiphone Inspired by Gibsons Birds and it's cool. I also have an 02, 09 and 17 with traditional carved headstock and banjos. Do not close your thinking towards the 2021 Gibson Bird. Additionally, the Custom Shop Birds are excellent guitars. I have played several and they are very true to the originals. Let's face it, Gibson Custom shop guitars, any model are seriously overpriced. I've felt that way for may years. The Kauer is a great guitar but they are going in the mid 4's last time I looked. Certainly,  there  are used Custom Shop Birds out there and they sell for decent prices.  I am a man on the dreaded retired fixed income and realistically, I can't afford a Custom Shop anything, but I'm ok with that. Years ago, I had 8 Historic Les Pauls when they were very reasonably priced, but they are gone now. If you want to go used, great, you'll find something out there below 2K, but not much below. One last thing. The ceramic pickups in the older Birds are actually great pickups if you take the time to dial them in with your amp settings, tweak your OD pedals and finally, USE YOUR TONE CONTROLS!!!

[FirebirdMan]

I just picked up a used white 2008 Firebird V by chance at GC. I went in to buy an Orange cab and they just hung it up. I picked it up today. I also have a 2017 burst with Steinberger tuners. The ‘08 has banjos. I like them both. My question is why Gibson doesn’t have white in their lineup anymore. They are freaking hard to find. I sold one 10 or so years ago so I am glad to have gotten another.

Dave - Seattle

[Coachmoe]

There appears to be no reasoning for the finish options on recent Firebirds. Some years, like 2021, they offer two, Sunburst and another color like Cherry Red. In 2018, I think it was Ebony only. 2017, Sunburst and Pelham Blue.  I would think that white would get  an appearance in the not too distant future. Like I said, no rhyme or reason. 

[Malchik]

I suspect the demand for Firebirds is low and it is more profitable for Gibson to focus on LPs and SGs. Once they get enough orders they'll make some. They do have to retool and switch some materials to make a Firebird and the supply line is probably compromised so you might as well focus on what sells.

[Larsongs]

I’d buy a reissue ‘65 Vintage Sunburst Reverse Firebird VII with Maestro Lyre & Gold Hardware.. If they don’t get crazy on pricing… I’d give a Deposit right now…

Edited September 11, 2021 by Larsongs

[SteveFord]

They haven't done a proper VII since 2006?  

I think of mine as Fester as I found it funny that Uncle Fester's wife asked if I had finally gotten it yet.

[classicaxe]

GIBSON PLEASE is the 2021 and 2022 Gibson USA Firebird being discontinued ? Very simple YES or NO ! I am a GIBSON PLAYER and we deserve a answer please ? Many Gibson guitars I have and spent a lot ! I want to buy a 2021 or 2022 Gibson USA Firebird ! Explain please !

[Coachmoe]

2 hours ago, classicaxe said:

GIBSON PLEASE is the 2021 and 2022 Gibson USA Firebird being discontinued ? Very simple YES or NO ! I am a GIBSON PLAYER and we deserve a answer please ? Many Gibson guitars I have and spent a lot ! I want to buy a 2021 or 2022 Gibson USA Firebird ! Explain please !

Classic,

the word from a Gibson employee is that the reverse Firebirds are temporarily being discontinued. They are going to bring out a USA production non reverse Firebird, most likely in 2022.  The same employee said that the reverse models will come back in a couple of years. 

[Coachmoe]

9 hours ago, Coachmoe said:

Classic,

the word from a Gibson employee is that the reverse Firebirds are temporarily being discontinued. They are going to bring out a USA production non reverse Firebird, most likely in 2022.  The same employee said that the reverse models will come back in a couple of years. 

Classic,

 

To further explain, the following post came from The Les Paul Forum. The name of the Gibson guy I mentioned in my previous post is Mat Koehler. Mat works in Product Development for Gibson. Here is part of my original question and his reply to my question about Firebirds being discontinued.

My question pertains to USA Production Firebirds. Rumor floating around that they are going to be discontinued. What can you tell us about that? Additionally, how were the finish choices selected for the recent Birds, going back to say 2015? One year only Ebony, other years, Vintage Sunburst and a custom color. 

If the Firebird will continue to be a regular USA production model in 2022 and beyond, any chance one of the finishes would be White?

Great questions! So a bit of historical context here...the original style Firebird (reverse) was designed outside of Gibson (by Ray Dietrich but you know this) in 1962 and it was up to Larry Allers and his team to figure out how to build the thing. They hadn't done anything like it, and the 9-ply centerpiece came about after two-piece centerpieces literally came apart. There was a wing redesign too. Anyway with the length of wood required for the neck-through and the complexity of the build made the model the scourge of the factory. It impeded throughput and with the introduction of the Thunderbird bass, the factory literally had to rearrange how they channeled these extremely long models through production. However players loved it and it was a commercial success, based on how many they were able to produce with such complexity.

When all was said and done, the original style Firebirds and Thunderbirds were not made for more than two years. The Non-Reverse Firebird took its place as a much easier-to-build model with the classic set neck construction. It too was a commercial success, even moreso given the ability to fill an order book efficiently.

Cut to today. Still a very difficult guitar to build. So difficult that it prompted that headstock change at USA (not at Custom Shop where a Historic Reissue is a Historic Reissue) and eventually let to the *temporary* discontinuation of it and the Thunderbird as you said. But we will have reverse Thunderbird artist models coming up, and we introduced Non-Reverse Thunderbirds which are killer. Non-Reverse Firebirds are next. The goal is to have a more manageable product life cycle...it helps the overall mix. So in a couple years we'll go back to the classic Firebird at USA, perhaps with some concessions like fewer body ply and definitely different tuner spacing. Great idea there, so thank you.

White is the hardest color to get through a nitrocellulose guitar factory, bar none. But we are hard at work trying to make that and all lighter opaque colors factory-friendly at Gibson USA. Although white paint has been a battle since the Les Paul Custom in '61. Just very susceptible to airborne debris and aniline dye floating through the air and it's not easy to repair and rework. But people expect perfection, and that is what we aim for...just going to take some careful planning (and cleaning).

That said, Custom Shop went through the same woes with white paint and came out on the other side better than ever. We're running a lot of white guitars there. AND I'm happy to announce that we have a Polaris White Johnny Winter Firebird V out of Murphy Lab dropping later this year which may be of interest to you. They are turning out killer!

 

Classic, hope this sheds more light on your question.

[SteveFord]

Why would they work so hard on getting the color to turn out correctly and then turn it over to somebody to beat the snot out of it?  

[Coachmoe]

4 hours ago, SteveFord said:

Why would they work so hard on getting the color to turn out correctly and then turn it over to somebody to beat the snot out of it?  

There are people out there that are willing to pay the price . It’s that simple.  Additionally, this thread is about the reverse Firebird being discontinued, NOT the viability of relic’d guitars.

[SteveFord]

Pardon me for intruding, I will not do it again.

[Sgt. Pepper]

4 hours ago, SteveFord said:

Pardon me for intruding, I will not do it again.

How dare you go off topic Steve.

Now back to some Zappa.

[Tom Uttaro]

The Firebird sounds like no other guitar and has been a favorite of mine in the recording studio.  I previously owned a Custom Shop, which was OK but not great, huge neck, ceramic pickups, overpriced.  I just acquired a 2020 USA model in Cherry and the sound, stability, and set up of the guitar are excellent.  Gibson hit it out of the park with these pickups.  I had a difficult time finding one fairly priced.   I suggest returning to the traditional headstock design, although this flat design is acceptable, especially with cost considerations.  The spacing on the tuners is a bit tight, I think there is enough room to remedy this.  Overall, the sound and playability of this guitar is really outstanding.  This guitar may not be hugely profitable for Gibson USA but I strongly recommend a return to production at Gibson USA, perhaps adding a version of white.  The Firebird is an essential guitar and historic design, and should not only come in very expensive Custom Shop versions.   

[SteveFord]

The current Firebird picks ups are really good.

Go back to the old head stock with the banjos, support the headstock better in the case and use the new pick ups are my suggestions.

[merciful-evans]

I really like the FB design. I hope they do produce them again this year. 

They are big though. I find that slightly off putting.  Someone recently said they once bought one and immediately returned it when it wouldn't fit in his car backseat.