K & K Trinity Pickup & Mic System

[DanvillRob]

I was looking for a good pick up for my old J-50.

Forum Member, Krasi, told me he uses the K & K Trinity system.

If it makes me sound half as good as Krasi sounds, it'd be a good deal!

I had it installed on my guitar, but I didn't have a stereo cable.

I got a cable, so I feed the guitar through my amp, (Princeton Reverb), and fed the mic through my Fender Passport 300 Pro PA system.

I think the system sounds great....but the guitar playing didn't seem to improve...and the mic didn't help my singing whatsoever!

Anyway here are two songs I recorded this morning.

Just an FYI for the youngin's.... "Gay" in 1939 doesn't mean what it means today!

 

[Jinder]

Loved these!! I haven’t heard South of the Border for a long time. Great performances and the Trinity is sounding fantastic!

What harmony pedal are you using? It sounds like it tracks really well.

[DanvillRob]

26 minutes ago, Jinder said:

Loved these!! I haven’t heard South of the Border for a long time. Great performances and the Trinity is sounding fantastic!

What harmony pedal are you using? It sounds like it tracks really well.

Thanks, Jinder.... coming from you that's a REAL compliment!

I heard South Of The Border a couple of days ago.  I was AMAZED that I never noticed what a absolute jewel of a song it is.... I nearly choke up when I sing it....one a foolish lost love because of his need to wander, the other becomes a nun because of he ran out on her....truly a wonderful song.

I use the Helicon H-2.   I really like it....if you play the guitar THROUGH IT, it tracks the key and does the appropriate harmony.   You can also select the key you wish.  Also, you can set it for a third above, a third below, a fifth above, a fifth below...and all the combinations...plus  you can adjust the amount of harmony you want.   I felt for a couple hundred bucks it was cheap.

[BluesKing777]

 

Aye Yi Yi Yi! 👌

Sounds good! I have a Boss VE8 with similar harmony trigger stuff and I practice with  that setup and always feel like I am playing in a bar - it is the reverb/delay setting - yours has a similar sound. Good stuff. I can imagine sitting in a bar and you playing away.... (P.S. the 'Aye Yi Yi's have stuck in my head - going to be singing it all day!)

What settings are you using on the Trinity pre? You have all the ingredients, if you turn up too much, there (in the video) for a big screaming guitar mic with the amp, PA, vocal mic. I have been experimenting with headphones, no monitor and plugged direct to mixer from the Trinity. I have the Trinity guitar mic on full. (I have the Trinity in 5 guitars now, one is the Trinity Onboard - great stuff. There are a lot of bits and pieces though - makes me appreciate my Matons with similar dual source thing with pickup/internal mic, but all the controls on the guitars....just plug 'em in! Except, you have to buy a Maton 😵 (unloved here on the forum, but so, so, so easy for pluggin' in!)

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by BluesKing777

[DanvillRob]

2 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Aye Yi Yi Yi! 👌

Sounds good! I have a Boss VE8 with similar harmony trigger stuff and I practice with  that setup and always feel like I am playing in a bar - it is the reverb/delay setting - yours has a similar sound. Good stuff. I can imagine sitting in a bar and you playing away.... (P.S. the 'Aye Yi Yi's have stuck in my head - going to be singing it all day!)

What settings are you using on the Trinity pre? You have all the ingredients, if you turn up too much, there (in the video) for a big screaming guitar mic with the amp, PA, vocal mic. I have been experimenting with headphones, no monitor and plugged direct to mixer from the Trinity. I have the Trinity guitar mic on full. (I have the Trinity in 5 guitars now, one is the Trinity Onboard - great stuff. There are a lot of bits and pieces though - makes me appreciate my Matons with similar dual source thing with pickup/internal mic, but all the controls on the guitars....just plug 'em in! Except, you have to buy a Maton 😵 (unloved here on the forum, but so, so, so easy for pluggin' in!)

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

Thanks,  BK.   I really like the dimension the harmonizer adds.   I suck at harmony...so this is a plus!

I  added the "Aye-Yi-Yi-Yi in between each verse just to make the song flow, (to my ear).

When I get earworms, I usually just learn and record the song!  This song is easy...here are my charts for it.

(I have to use 2 pages because my eyesight requires the writing be fairly large these days:

 

 

By the way...I have ALL my charts up on Facebook if anyone is interested....free for the taking....probably more than 350 charts there.

I have the mic on about 7 and the pickups on about 8-9.

I have volume controls on the amp and the PA so I can adjust to what  I like.   I'm still playing with it.

I'm thinking of putting this same system on my old Dove, (I won't touch the DIF or the 'Bird Custom Koa)

The 12-String came with a pickups in it... I don't know what brand..... I'll have to get a mirror and find out one day.

I won't bother with pickups in the Jubilee...I have a sound-hole pickup I might mount permanently in it.

I had to remount the mic in the J-50....is was kinda hokey... I put in a strip of industrial Velcro and the mic had one side with double-sided tape

and the other with Velcro....now it's secure!

I mostly just play in the music room.... I don't play out much anymore, (my last gig got cancelled about 2 hours before

my start due to COVID restrictions by the County...maybe 4 months ago).

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

[BluesKing777]

 

No gigs here either - it just looks like they are going ahead and they get cancelled after somebody breathes on someone, etc....a bit hard to sing in a mask anyway!

You are still happy with your new pickup system but I get annoyed with ...batteries......especially that half way point in their life when things start to act a little bit wonky. So, the K&K Mini part of your Trinity is passive...if your battery croaks on you and none around, just run a normal mono guitar lead out and you have just the pickup - no mic. The straight K&K can be used in an emergency direct to your mixer - needs an experiment or two.

Some people say the Trinity feeds back - they must be playing with a drummer at rock band volumes. Or facing a monitor speaker. I have been experimenting with the Tonedexter with running the straight K&K with a mono lead to it. It gets a VERY similar sound to the full Trinity with a fair bit of work and practice. Tonedexter won't feed back, or not as much as the internal mic will. (Perfect for this bar I used to play in - all windows and terrazzo floor, bar and low wall - an echo box waiting to feedback as soon as I plugged in.)

Here is a short recording of a Bob track fingerpicked on my CEO7 Martin with K&K run mono through my Tonedexter pre - I  put some strummy bits in now and again the to highlight the 'acoustic mic' sound:

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by BluesKing777

[DanvillRob]

5 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

No gigs here either - it just looks like they are going ahead and they get cancelled after somebody breathes on someone, etc....a bit hard to sing in a mask anyway!

You are still happy with your new pickup system but I get annoyed with ...batteries......especially that half way point in their life when things start to act a little bit wonky. So, the K&K Mini part of your Trinity is passive...if your battery croaks on you and none around, just run a normal mono guitar lead out and you have just the pickup - no mic. The straight K&K can be used in an emergency direct to your mixer - needs an experiment or two.

Some people say the Trinity feeds back - they must be playing with a drummer at rock band volumes. Or facing a monitor speaker. I have been experimenting with the Tonedexter with running the straight K&K with a mono lead to it. It gets a VERY similar sound to the full Trinity with a fair bit of work and practice. Tonedexter won't feed back, or not as much as the internal mic will. (Perfect for this bar I used to play in - all windows and terrazzo floor, bar and low wall - an echo box waiting to feedback as soon as I plugged in.)

Here is a short recording of a Bob track fingerpicked on my CEO7 Martin with K&K run mono through my Tonedexter pre - I  put some strummy bits in now and again the to highlight the 'acoustic mic' sound:

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

VERY nice!    I'll bet the girls LOVE your "Strummy Bits"!

I have played the Trinity with a mono cable.... it sounds just fine.... I think the pick-up system, (having multiple pick up points) makes it sound more 'natural'.

I thought about the batteries.... I have a stash of 9V batteries...but I'll have to pick up more at Costco.  

My finger-picking is weak (at best).   I've done a couple of songs that really require finger-picking....but I weenied-out and did them on the 12-String, (Freight Train & Dust In The Wind).

I really HAD to finger pick on "Time In A Bottle"....but it's simply NOT my strength, (even though I LOVE the sound of a good finger-picker).

I wonder why no one posts in the Acoustic Performances much?

[BluesKing777]

 

I have told this story a few times now, but will tell it from the different perspective of time passed....

OK, I heavily researched online a way to get my Cargill custom guitar 00 deep body to have a pickup as good as the dual source Matons. The K&K Trinity is a bit of a secret, mainly because the rep of the mic feeding back at volume. But I did read one guy who thought they were better than sliced bread, so after reading as much as I could, I decided to get the "K&K Trinity Pro Upgrade System"  - my Cargill already had the K&K Mini pickup and the Pro Upgrade System gives you all the other bits - Trinity Pro outboard preamp, Mic, Stereo Cable and some attachment parts.......

So I called the my trusty luthier, spoke about my hopes and dreams and got him to order the bits. Took months but the phone rang and he said the bits were in and haul that guitar over! And I did.

Week or so and I get the call that he has finished. I hasten to pickup my guitar but when he showed me, it had the wrong pickup. He had ordered the full ONBOARD K&K Trinity! Everything IN the guitar including the hated ..battery!

https://kksound.com/products/onboardtrinity.php

 

I wasn't sure whether to pass out or scream.......

Then he plugged it in for me to try it - straight to his large and loud test PA array thingy, BOSE.? Oh wow, it sounded sensational! So I took it home. First I asked him if he set all the preamp controls inside - gain, bass, mid, treb, vol.....and he replied that he thought it sounded so good as he first tried it that he "Could only make it sound worse if he touched it!" And he left it as factory default.

And it is still exactly like that today........and I have not had to change the battery (9V) as yet!

 

P.S. I ordered the Trinity Pro outboard systems myself and had them gradually installed by my luthier in 4 other guitars...CEO7, Lowden S35, Waterloos 1 and 2! Sensational and one preamp to share around.

P.S.S. My experience is girls don’t like strummy bits much and would rather dance to a disco beat in a club.....

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by BluesKing777

[DanvillRob]

On 4/22/2021 at 6:07 PM, BluesKing777 said:

 

P.S.S. My experience is girls don’t like strummy bits much and would rather dance to a disco beat in a club.....

 

 

 

 

Yeah.... at my age my "strummy bits" at set on 'slow waltz' anyway!

 

After my luthier put in the mic, it came loose.... I remounted it using industrial-strength velcro, and it's secure now....but I don't have it right up in the middle of the sound hole....it's back towards the bass bout just behind the sound hole....should I move it?

 

 

[BluesKing777]

 

Like I mentioned above, I now have 5 guitars with Trinity systems, and my luthier put each mic in a different place! It depends on the guitar bracing and where you can find a good spot to hang the mic arm.

I put Humidipaks in all my guitars - you get 3 bags - one in the case in the headstock area and two in a supplied bag that hang over the strings in the soundhole. The mic arm in my CEO7 is right where the Humidipak wants to go, so of course the mic fell off a couple of times. No biggie as long as you are not playing when it falls! (Sounds of world ending). Just stuck it back.

My Matons have a modular dual source pickup system that they install as the guitar is built. The mic is on a movable boom arm that is attached permanently to the pickup preamp/controls on the driver side of the guitar. This mic can swing in an arc under the strings, so if you want more bass strings - move it towards the bass, want more treble strings - move it towards the treble strings! Most Matonisers have the mic between the second and third string.......near the bass strings can get real boomy. It is really easy to experiment with this system, but the stick on Trinity mic....hmmm.......could take a while to get the balance. I can tell if I like it immediately as I run the mics on FULL through my preamps to headphones on in ear monitors. Some Matonisers swear on turning the mic right around so it is behind the bridge (under) and not facing out to feedback. Matonisers also use feedback plugs in the soundhole. Trinitites could use a feedback plug too!

Nothing to do with Trinities.......I have a Martin OM Authentic that I don’t want to alter so have tried various soundhole pickups that have built in mics and guess what? The famous names don’t fit the soundhole of OMs. So when I recently bought my 2007 Clapton Martin 000-28ec, out came the 3rd pickup I ever bought years ago - the old Fishman Rare Earth Blend. It has a mic on a boom arm off the pickup and it FITS in the OMs!!! 

So into the Clapton it goes, hang the lead out front, 50% blend pickup to mic and Voila! Sounds great! Took it out and tried it in a few other guitars. The mic is the key! The pickup alone is the usual soundhole pickup..........sound!

Thought you might be interested.

 

BluesKing77.

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by BluesKing777

[DanvillRob]

2 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Like I mentioned above, I now have 5 guitars with Trinity systems, and my luthier put each mic in a different place! It depends on the guitar bracing and where you can find a good spot to hang the mic arm.

I put Humidipaks in all my guitars - you get 3 bags - one in the case in the headstock area and two in a supplied bag that hang over the strings in the soundhole. The mic arm in my CEO7 is right where the Humidipak wants to go, so of course the mic fell off a couple of times. No biggie as long as you are not playing when it falls! (Sounds of world ending). Just stuck it back.

My Matons have a modular dual source pickup system that they install as the guitar is built. The mic is on a movable boom arm that is attached permanently to the pickup preamp/controls on the driver side of the guitar. This mic can swing in an arc under the strings, so if you want more bass strings - move it towards the bass, want more treble strings - move it towards the treble strings! Most Matonisers have the mic between the second and third string.......near the bass strings can get real boomy. It is really easy to experiment with this system, but the stick on Trinity mic....hmmm.......could take a while to get the balance. I can tell if I like it immediately as I run the mics on FULL through my preamps to headphones on in ear monitors. Some Matonisers swear on turning the mic right around so it is behind the bridge (under) and not facing out to feedback. Matonisers also use feedback plugs in the soundhole. Trinitites could use a feedback plug too!

Nothing to do with Trinities.......I have a Martin OM Authentic that I don’t want to alter so have tried various soundhole pickups that have built in mics and guess what? The famous names don’t fit the soundhole of OMs. So when I recently bought my 2007 Clapton Martin 000-28ec, out came the 3rd pickup I ever bought years ago - the old Fishman Rare Earth Blend. It has a mic on a boom arm off the pickup and it FITS in the OMs!!! 

So into the Clapton it goes, hang the lead out front, 50% blend pickup to mic and Voila! Sounds great! Took it out and tried it in a few other guitars. The mic is the key! The pickup alone is the usual soundhole pickup..........sound!

Thought you might be interested.

 

BluesKing77.

 

 

 

Well, BK...you seem like the guy with the answers!    The way I mounted my mic it's easy to move around....so far, I kinda like where it is....but I can easily move it.

Post some stuff with you playing your various guitars.   I have HUNDREDS of videos up on YouTube using all 11 of mine, (including the P-Bass, both pianos and the Loar Mandolin)....so anyone can listen to my stuff anytime.  I made a commitment to post EVERY song I do or have done for my very young grandsons, (who will inherit all my instruments one day).   I want them to be able to relate the guitar to their grandpa!   So, I'm recording some stuff now I haven't played in over 25 years....it's actually a blast!

Bob