Another Fake J-45?

[jibberish]

Hahaha...I know, I'm geeking out about this.

Ya clicked it. So you must too!

I see:

1) weird pickguard

2) no soundhole sticker

3) weird soundhole stamp

4) can't even tell if there is matching stamp on back of headstock

5) bridge inlays don't match

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254936891019?ViewItem=&item=254936891019

[jchabalk]

I don't know what that thing is but i don't think it's a 50's J45. I'm no expert though. For the most part it looks pretty good, with some odd repair work. That narrow nut was more of a Norlin era thing (early 70s i think?) but who knows, it could have been "customized" somewhere along the way.

[jibberish]

22 minutes ago, jibberish said:

Hahaha...I know, I'm geeking out about this.

Ya clicked it. So you must too!

I see:

1) weird pickguard

2) no soundhole sticker

3) weird soundhole stamp

4) can't even tell if there is matching stamp on back of headstock

5) bridge inlays don't match

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254936891019?ViewItem=&item=254936891019

On my 5th point, by happenstance I just shifted the J-45 on my lap, and the light angle made one bride inlay look white, while the other still pearl-ish.

So, just saying. Camera flash could nullify my 5th point.

[slimt]

I see a 55 Gibson J45.   I see a oversized pickguard.    Maybe to protect the finish or cover up wear.     I see a few cosmetic cracks.     
 W indicates a 1955.   

[jedzep]

Looks kosher to me too. Maybe the statement 'all original' given the oversized guard is pushing it. So is the price.

[j45nick]

Those of us who own and play vintage J-45s may look at this guitar differently from the original poster.

It looks like a 1955 J-45 with an oversized replacement pickguard to me.

A J-45 of this vintage would not have a sticker on the inside--only the FON stamped on the neck block, as we see in the photo. The W-prefix Factory Order Number (the "weird soundhole stamp") indicates 1955, as do most other visible features of the guitar.

You won't find a factory label inside a J-45 prior to the later Norlin era square-shoulder models, as most folks here know.

Not sure what you are referring to as a "matching stamp on the back of the headstock", but embossing the FON or serial number on the back of the headstock came in later than this guitar.

As has been mentioned, it is not unusual to see an oversized pickguard put on an older guitar to cover pick damage. I have one 1950 J-45 that has had four different pickguards on it in the 55 years I've owned it: the original tear drop, the 1968 batwing put on when it was re-topped, a Martin-style pickguard I made for it around 1970, and a new replica original celluloid tear drop made for it in 2010 as part of major work done on the guitar.

The narrow nut is unusual for the period. However, when my first 1950 J-45 came back from the factory in 1968 after a fretboard replacement, the neck had been narrowed to accommodate a new fretboard only 1 9/16"  (1.5625") at the nut, which was what they were putting on new J-45s at that time. Maybe this guitar had something similar happen, or maybe someone modified it along the way.

The narrower nut would make it less desirable to a lot of people, including me. Some folks, however, prefer it.

[62burst]

What first caught my eye on this old J-45 was the 'burst- how it has almost red-shifted to where it looks like one finished in another era. . . the forum's Lars68 has a beautiful '42 with a reddish tone, but the darker, outer area of the burst is wider. The darkening of the wear marks in the general area of the top is something often seen on oversprayed vintage guitars, and although factory sunbursts done in this era can have more of a tobacco burst, an overspray might've reacted with the brown->black area of the burst, allowing the red to show through. Looks cool, but it does devalue things. Of more concern might be the notorious Pickguard Crack, where as the top slightly expands/contracts with changing weather conditions, the original 'guard prevents the grain underneath move with those changes, pulling the grain open. It's visible north of the soundhole on the outside edge of the fretboard extension's treble side, and slightly so, on the bridge side, as well.

The narrower 'board might be a little cramped, but fretboard divots are a bigger turnoff, since they can cause the guitar to fret sharp if fretted with too much pressure. 

Still, a cool guitar- and it surely still has that old J-45 sound in there somewhere.

[zombywoof]

This guitar is also for sale on Reverb,  Here the guitar  is described as probably a special order instrument which would seemingly account for the oddities which in this description  include the oversized pickguard and a red spruce top. 

Perhaps though, as pointed out, the guitar was redone by Gibson. As was their habit they did not replace anything with what had been there but with whatever they were using at the time.  But based on my wife's 1960 J200 which went through this, it  also appears it was Gibson's habit to stamp the FON on the back of the headstock of any guitar which came in for extensive work. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by zombywoof

[zombywoof]

Oddly the one thing the OP did not list as questionable was the strangest of all which is the nut width.  The only Gibson I can think of which at the time which would have had a narrower nut is the LG2 3/4 size which I believe had 1 5/8" nut.   While general wisdom has it that the skimpier nuts go hand in hand with Gibson installing new automatic neck machines in 1965 I have run across claims of late-1950s and early-1960s Gibson having 1 9/16" nuts.  Whether they exist or somebody simply measured incorrectly though I do not have a clue as I have personally never held on in my hands. 

[slimt]

24 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

Oddly the one thing the OP did not list as questionable was the strangest of all which is the nut width.  The only Gibson I can think of which at the time which would have had a narrower nut is the LG2 3/4 size which I believe had 1 5/8" nut.   While general wisdom has it that the skimpier nuts go hand in hand with Gibson installing new automatic neck machines in 1965 I have run across claims of late-1950s and early-1960s Gibson having 1 9/16" nuts.  Whether they exist or somebody simply measured incorrectly though I do not have a clue as I have personally never held on in my hands. 

Maybe the 55 Gibson was sent back to Gibson in the mid 60s for a Neck replacement.    
 

I remember having a 64 J200 I bought used that had a large volute neck.  Which we know was not a standard thing on a 64.     Im going on a whim that it was sent back in the Norlin era and was replaced with Norlin stock. 
 

anything is possible with all those used Gibsons out there.