The P-90

[mihcmac]

 

[jdgm]

Yeah, but.......he missed a lot of things.

They should have at least shown a dis-assembled P90 so we could see the parts.  

He says almost nothing about usage during the 1st 30 years from when it was invented.  All jazz guitarists of the era recorded with P90 guitars (including Les Paul of course), also Scotty Moore with Elvis,  T-Bone Walker, Chuck, B.B., and in the 60s Townshend, Clapton and the Beatles who had Epi Casinos .  That's missing a LOT of important P90 history.

The clean tone of a P90 is where its unique quality starts.   It has a particular zing and more harmonic content than a humbucker though it is slightly 'thinner'.  It was found later on that humbuckers actually suppress or cancel not only the hum, but some harmonics as well.

Steve Jones recorded with a HB-equipped LP Custom according to many sources.

At 8.19 in the video the camera shows a fuzz pedal, and at 10 mins in he says he approximated Gilmour's "Another Brick" solo tone using an Axe effects III  which is a digital amp/fx modeller.   Using those obscures the P90 sound quite a bit too IMO. 

And he didn't mention the hum either.....how can you talk about distorted P90s without mentioning the hum?  It was the reason the humbucker was invented!  

But these are merely typical guitar player geek moans......I love my P90s (and 94s).

Edited April 27, 2021 by jdgm

[mihcmac]

47 minutes ago, jdgm said:

Yeah, but.......he missed a lot of things.

They should have at least shown a dis-assembled P90 so we could see the parts.  

He says almost nothing about usage during the 1st 30 years from when it was invented.  All jazz guitarists of the era recorded with P90 guitars (including Les Paul of course), also Scotty Moore with Elvis,  T-Bone Walker, Chuck, B.B., and in the 60s Townshend, Clapton and the Beatles who had Epi Casinos .  That's missing a LOT of important P90 history.

The clean tone of a P90 is where its unique quality starts.   It has a particular zing and more harmonic content than a humbucker though it is slightly 'thinner'.  It was found later on that humbuckers actually suppress or cancel not only the hum, but some harmonics as well.

Steve Jones recorded with a HB-equipped LP Custom according to many sources.

At 8.19 in the video the camera shows a fuzz pedal, and at 10 mins in he says he approximated Gilmour's "Another Brick" solo tone using an Axe effects III  which is a digital amp/fx modeller.   Using those obscures the P90 sound quite a bit too IMO. 

And he didn't mention the hum either.....how can you talk about distorted P90s without mentioning the hum?  It was the reason the humbucker was invented!  

But these are merely typical guitar player geek moans......I love my P90s (and 94s).

I have posted this before just a simple explanation plus about reverse coil P90's for hum cancelling..

If you take a P90 part and remove the magnets, you will notice that the magnets are held together in opposing fields trying to push each other apart creating  a single magnetic field at both ends of the pup.

Just as a note, in a reverse coil pickup the actual polarity is reversed, the coil (bobbin) and magnets are reversed creating an opposite magnetic field. The wiring is the same, if changed it will take the pickup out of phase creating an undesirable effect.

If you place a compass next to your pups the normal pup will swing the south end of the needle closest to it, on either end of the pup. The reversed  pup will swing the north end of the needle to it, on either end..

On a P90, if your compass swings to the same  pole on both pups, then they are in the same polarity.. Normal pups in the same polarity will normally swing the south end of the needle toward them..

If anyone should try to reverse a Gibson P90 is one of the most difficult because it is very substantially built. You will need a good soldering gun to desolder the cable shielding from the chassis so you can flip the coil, while being very careful not to damage the leads going to the coil. Also need to mark the magnets with something like nail polish so you know the original orientation.

Usually much easier to just acquire an aftermarket reverse polarity P90, most manufacturers are building them in sets this way..

Epiphone P90's are easier to reverse with no desoldering required, just mark the magnets, disassemble requiring the pole screws to be removed, flip the coil and reverse the magnets in an opposite opposing position, check  the polarity with a compass and finish reassembling.

There are a few other posts in the Epiphone thread explaining in more detail.  

****    Easy P-90 hum cancelling mod

Edited April 27, 2021 by mihcmac

[rct]

He failed to mention how overrated P-90s are.

rct

[mihcmac]

He's a fan..

[sparquelito]

I have owned plenty of P-90 equipped guitars over the years, including some Gibsons. 

Nothing stuck with me. 
They were great, but they didn't do any one thing good. 
I sold 'em, in the end. 

Now. 
The Yamaha Revstar RS502T that I got much earlier this year;

MAN. 
It's a beast. 

I can't qualify or quantify why it kicks aS$ in so many ways, but it just does. 
Yamaha got the P90 right with this one. 

🙂

 

[zigzag]

I really like a P-90, and though I don’t currently own a guitar with them, I own several modded with pickups designed to have similar characteristics... Fralin P-92s in a Dot, Fralin Steel Pole 42s in a Tele, and Carvin stock S-20s in an SH550.

[mihcmac]

On 4/27/2021 at 1:56 PM, sparquelito said:

I have owned plenty of P-90 equipped guitars over the years, including some Gibsons. 

Nothing stuck with me. 
They were great, but they didn't do any one thing good. 
I sold 'em, in the end. 

Now. 
The Yamaha Revstar RS502T that I got much earlier this year;

MAN. 
It's a beast. 

I can't qualify or quantify why it kicks aS$ in so many ways, but it just does. 
Yamaha got the P90 right with this one. 

🙂

 

Nice Revstar

 

[mihcmac]

My favorite Tele..... (Modeled after my Blueshawk).

My other favorite Tele...

Edited April 29, 2021 by mihcmac

[Retired]

On 4/27/2021 at 4:07 PM, jdgm said:

Yeah, but.......he missed a lot of things.

They should have at least shown a dis-assembled P90 so we could see the parts.  

He says almost nothing about usage during the 1st 30 years from when it was invented.  All jazz guitarists of the era recorded with P90 guitars (including Les Paul of course), also Scotty Moore with Elvis,  T-Bone Walker, Chuck, B.B., and in the 60s Townshend, Clapton and the Beatles who had Epi Casinos .  That's missing a LOT of important P90 history.

The clean tone of a P90 is where its unique quality starts.   It has a particular zing and more harmonic content than a humbucker though it is slightly 'thinner'.   .....I love my P90s (and 94s).

Yes, For this reason alone, I love my P90's. I mostly play with those clean tones, I call the one, Bell like tones to describe it. About any guitar can get you the heavy metal tones or the Humbucker sound. 

[mihcmac]

3 minutes ago, Retired said:

Yes, For this reason alone, I love my P90's. I mostly play with those clean tones, I call the one, Bell like tones to describe it. About any guitar can get you the heavy metal tones or the Humbucker sound. 

One of things I love about my Blueshawk is that its a tone machine, it can do any style....

[Retired]

6 minutes ago, mihcmac said:

One of things I love about my Blueshawk is that its a tone machine, it can do any style....

Very beautiful guitar. 

[merciful-evans]

P90s puzzle me.

I don’t recall using P90s until 2015 when I was checking out Gibson DC LPs for the first time. I really wanted to like them. I couldn’t because I didn’t like the sound. That sound is present on the posted video (during first 5 minutes anyway).

Oddly, the sound is very close to the sound I crave. But its like it’s reached beyond the sound & gone too far. Then the strings sound like rubber bands.

If not for that, I might have bought an older DC LP (carved top) goldtop I found at my local store.

P90s can sound great on other guitars though. I was very taken with the ES-390, and even bought a Epi Casino Coupe later that year.

The Fender TC90 I briefly had, came with high output SD P90s. I felt sure I was going to have to replace those PDQ. Never had a good experience with any SDs, didn’t like overwound pickups & still nervous of P90s. However they sounded superb. I’d love to get that sound again.

So yes, they puzzle me.

[Larsongs]

On 4/27/2021 at 2:07 PM, jdgm said:

Yeah, but.......he missed a lot of things.

They should have at least shown a dis-assembled P90 so we could see the parts.  

He says almost nothing about usage during the 1st 30 years from when it was invented.  All jazz guitarists of the era recorded with P90 guitars (including Les Paul of course), also Scotty Moore with Elvis,  T-Bone Walker, Chuck, B.B., and in the 60s Townshend, Clapton and the Beatles who had Epi Casinos .  That's missing a LOT of important P90 history.

The clean tone of a P90 is where its unique quality starts.   It has a particular zing and more harmonic content than a humbucker though it is slightly 'thinner'.  It was found later on that humbuckers actually suppress or cancel not only the hum, but some harmonics as well.

Steve Jones recorded with a HB-equipped LP Custom according to many sources.

At 8.19 in the video the camera shows a fuzz pedal, and at 10 mins in he says he approximated Gilmour's "Another Brick" solo tone using an Axe effects III  which is a digital amp/fx modeller.   Using those obscures the P90 sound quite a bit too IMO. 

And he didn't mention the hum either.....how can you talk about distorted P90s without mentioning the hum?  It was the reason the humbucker was invented!  

But these are merely typical guitar player geek moans......I love my P90s (and 94s).

There’s a great 50’s performance of Carl Perkins doing “Matchbox” & he’s playing an early 50’s LP Goldtop with P90’s & Bigsby on YouTube... after seeing & hearing it I became a huge P90’s addict! I don’t know how to post YouTube’s but if you like P90’s you gotta check it out!

[SteveFord]

 

[SteveFord]

For the P90 sound, think Live At Leeds or Aqualung (guitar tip came courtesy of Leslie West).

I really like P90s, especially in a Les Paul Standard.

[Larsongs]

54 minutes ago, SteveFord said:

For the P90 sound, think Live At Leeds or Aqualung (guitar tip came courtesy of Leslie West).

I really like P90s, especially in a Les Paul Standard.

Yeah, those are great too as are The Stones & Beatles with their Casinos with P90’s.... But, definitely Carl Perkins way back in the mid 50’s Rockin that cool Goldtop LP with P90’s & Bigsby! Him & Scotty Moore were the inspirations for most who followed..

 

[Larsongs]

1 hour ago, SteveFord said:

 

Yeah! That’s the one.. So Cool! Thanks for posting...

[mihcmac]

One of the things I have found about P90's is that you really do need to use the Volume and Tone control on the guitar, specially for clean tones. Typically I back off the tone control a bit as a starting point and found that I use neck PU for lead more than I expected, specially when using my Vox Wah.

I have 4 guitars that I wanted to love in their original configuration with humbuckings, my kit built Explorer, a G400, an RG421 and my new Epi 339. They now have Mean 90's, that I first installed In a Dot in 2006, thinking it was too muddy. Anyway they all do what I want them to now..

Edited April 29, 2021 by mihcmac

[SteveFord]

It's not the P90s, it's the matching shoes that do it for me.

[mihcmac]

4 hours ago, SteveFord said:

It's not the P90s, it's the matching shoes that do it for me.

Hmm, are those black & white, brown & white or cordovan & white wingtips?

Epiphones 2015 Blueshawk, no wingtips though.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by mihcmac

[mihcmac]

 

[Twang Gang]

I'm glad you guys like them and find use for them.  My first electric had a single P-90 and was not very versatile.  My second was a LP with P-90s and I eventually had the top routed out and humbuckers put in it.  I just never liked P-90s at all.  For me they were too noisy and mid range heavy, not clear and clean.  Different strokes for different folks.

Even the Carl Perkins vid doesn't sound great to me - love the shoes though!  

Edited April 29, 2021 by Twang Gang

[Larsongs]

2 hours ago, Twang Gang said:

I'm glad you guys like them and find use for them.  My first electric had a single P-90 and was not very versatile.  My second was a LP with P-90s and I eventually had the top routed out and humbuckers put in it.  I just never liked P-90s at all.  For me they were too noisy and mid range heavy, not clear and clean.  Different strokes for different folks.

Even the Carl Perkins vid doesn't sound great to me - love the shoes though!  

Different strokes! I like HB’s in my LP’s & ES335. IMO both P90’s & HB’s are great... Both for different reasons.... I also like the Pickups in my Firebird V..  I just learned they aren’t Mini Humbuckers? New one on me!

Edited April 30, 2021 by Larsongs

[Notes_Norton]

After playing a P90 guitar exclusively for a year, everything else just sounds dull.

There is a spark in the attack and a sensitivity to your picking that no other pickup offers.

Notes