My New ES-175

[MBmusic]

Hey everybody. I just got a new old stock ES-175 from 1997. There are a few things about it that are making me a little uneasy. The intonation is really off, there is some buzz on a few frets, I did not receive a certificate of authenticity with the guitar. Are these technical issues normal for a new old stock guitar that has probably sat in a closet for 11 years? Also, the humbuckers are gold, but I think I've seen ES-175s with that before. I just want to be sure that I did not get a bad guitar. There are some links for pics of the guitar below. Let me know what you guys think! Thanks so much!

 

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[lkmuller]

I'd take it in for a set-up. If that doesn't solve the problem, at least the luthier could tell you what would. Pictures look good, though. After you get it all set up you'll have an instrument you can enjoy for a lifetime.

[MBmusic]

I'd take it in for a set-up. If that doesn't solve the problem' date=' at least the luthier could tell you what would. Pictures look good, though. After you get it all set up you'll have an instrument you can enjoy for a lifetime.[/quote']

I do plan to get it set up tomorrow. But just out of curiosity, how often does Gibson produce guitars that are lemons that can't be fixed, or is that never?

[lkmuller]

Hmmm...haven't really had any experiences with a Gibson lemon. I've owned 5 in my lifetime, an es345, a Trini Lopez Standard, a Trini Lopez full body, and two 335's and all have been good. I think the bigger issue is whether or not the person you bought yours from on Ebay is an authorized Gibson dealer, which would determine whether or not your instrument is under warranty. Even if yours isn't under warranty, a good luthier could probably take care of any problems it might have. You may have to pay him for it, but shoots, you got yourself a good guitar, that's the bottom line. Good luck tomorrow, I hope the luthier can take care of that fret buzz and intonation.

[MBmusic]

Thanks man. So since this is my first jazz hollowbody, I was wondering if you could recommend a good set of strings to put on/ get the guitar set up for. I'll be playing mostly jazz on her.

[MBmusic]

Also I can't find out when Gibson stopped making ES-175s the old way or when they started making the current reissues. And the Humbuckers on my guitar are gold, is this normal--did Gibson make a lot of guitars this way? Can anybody help me with that? I put some pics of the guitar below. Also, please take a look at the rest of the photos of the guitar at this link: http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj291/YanksMan/1997%20Gibson%20ES-175/

I'd love to hear what you guys think of it!

 

[MBmusic]

So I got the guitar set up yesterday. The intonation is all better, but there is a very noticeable buzz that is really bothering me. It is not a typical fret buzz, but it is almost a rattling type noise and I can't figure out what it is. Also, there is a high ringing noise that accompanies it, but I guess most electric guitars do have this noise. These sounds are coming from the instrument itself of course, and can not be heard through an amp. Any help?

 

MB

[Ignatius]

So I got the guitar set up yesterday. The intonation is all better' date=' but there is a very noticeable buzz that is really bothering me. It is not a typical fret buzz, but it is almost a rattling type noise and I can't figure out what it is. Also, there is a high ringing noise that accompanies it, but I guess most electric guitars do have this noise. These sounds are coming from the instrument itself of course, and can not be heard through an amp. Any help?

 

MB[/quote']

 

Both of those issues sound odd to me. I had a rattling noise in my ES-125 that ended up being a loose part inside the guitar. I can't place the high ringing noise, but if it only accompanies the rattle, then my initial diagnosis is that the two are from the same cause. The ringing could be something clunking against a metal part.

 

To be honest, this should have been caught in the set-up work done if you had it done at a shop. And if so, I would take it back to the shop ASAP so they can hear it and fix it. It could be (and likely is) something minor that just needs to be tightened or moved. But a new guitar should sound like a new guitar: you deserve that.

 

Ignatius

[MBmusic]

I think the high ring is coming from a vibration response in the parts of the strings that are after the bridge. The reason I think this is because when I mute this spot on the string, the high ring noise goes away.

[jsmidt]

I think the high ring is coming from a vibration response in the parts of the strings that are after the bridge. The reason I think this is because when I mute this spot on the string' date=' the high ring noise goes away.[/quote']

 

The high pitched ringing sound like it would be sympathetic vibration. And it looks like you found where it is coming from.

 

The rattle could be loose switch or knob nuts inside, a wire making contact inside, the bridge, or the tailpiece. Take some time to pluck the strings and put your ear near the body to see if you can find where the rattle comes from. If you do, your luthier or tech may be able to remedy it. It's probably not an issue - just an irritation

 

Beatiful guitar.

[MBmusic]

So here's the official diagnosis from my luthier. He said the neck is a bit warped. Also, the pickguard and frets are causing some rattling. He said he's pretty sure fixing it shouldn't be a problem. Not great news, but seems fixable.

[MBmusic]

So I'm going to the luthier to pick up the guitar today! He says it's all good and better, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I post how it is.

[MBmusic]

So I picked the guitar up from the luthier and he sure did a fine job. The neck was warped so he did a major truss rod adjustment. He oil what had been a very dry fret board, he adjusted the nut, he fixed the rattle which had been coming mostly from the pickguard, he polished the entire body and headstock which was very nice, adjusted the action and put a new set of flat wound 11's and she plays pretty sweet to say the least.

 

The guitar sounds, looks and plays beautifully, but one really minor thing is still seems like it could be a potential problem. The wiring inside isn't tied up and secured like it should be. The wires are just sort of loosey goosey inside the guitar. Does anyone know of a good way to tie the wires together and secure them inside the guitar, or does this not really matter? Thanks a lot.

[MBmusic]

I'm sorry to keep re-posting on this thread but it would be great to find a solution to my minor issue.

 

The wires inside my ES-175 seem to be just loose and all over the place. Is this normal or should the wires inside be neat and tied together or something? Anyway, if anyone thinks it would be a good idea to fix this "problem," please share. Thanks so much!

[TheLiveSoundGuy]

One Solution

 

 

[MBmusic]

That does look like a good solution. But just as a general inquiry-- do most people have their wires tied together inside the guitar or is it O.K. if they are loose?

[roadhog96]

That does look like a good solution. But just as a general inquiry-- do most people have their wires tied together inside the guitar or is it O.K. if they are loose?

No, most people do not have their wires tied up nice and neat, it comes just the way yours did. By the way, that is one fine looking guitar. I am positive the reason you have Gold hardware on it is because it is a Custom. They came with Gold and have the split inlays on the neck. I think it came with 57 Classic Pick ups. It also has an ABR-1 style bridge and sometimes the screw retainer wire can cause a buzzing noise so you have to play with it to stop it. These were available from Musicians Friend a while ago I remember looking at them in the book and thinking how nice it looked. Flat wound strings with a wound 3rd string will make that guitar sound great.

[MBmusic]

Roadhog96, wow. You really know your stuff. I always wondered why it came with gold hardware but that answers my question. What/where is the screw retainer wire? And by the way, I totally agree with you about the flat wounds--they sound so nice on this guitar. It's a great guitar and I'm really liking it. Thanks for your insight.

[roadhog96]

The retainer wire is on the same side as the saddle intonation screws on the bridge. Looking at the pictures, it would be on the side facing the bridge Pick Up. It's a thin wire that runs over the top of the screws to hold them saddles in place. If it was not there and you should remove the strings or ever break one, the saddles will fall out. The wire is held in place by the screws heads and the ends of the wire are stuck into little holes at each end of the bridge. They are notorious for causing buzzing, sometimes the guitar can sound like a Sitar. There are a few aftermarket companies that make replacement ABR-1 style bridges that do not require the wire to hold the saddles in place and have a wider range of intonation adjustment than the stock Gibson bridge.

[MBmusic]

Hey roadhog, so it turns out that it was in fact the wire on the bridge. What would you suggest I do to this wire to stop buzzing? Thanks for your help as I have already been able to tame the buzzing noise.

 

I also have one more question.-- When I restring, I like to take all of the strings off at once to oil the fret board, polish the frets, etc. Is it bad to take all of the strings off at once? Someone said this isn't a good idea as the bridge will move. How does one go about doing this? Thanks again.

[roadhog96]

Know problem taking all the strings off at once. Just remember that stopbar will fall off the post without string tension on it so you might want to hang on to it maybe even protect the body of the guitar with a towel so if it does fall off it will be cushioned and not mark the guitar up. You can always loosen all the strings at the tuning pegs and swing the stopbar with all the strings still in it out of the way so you can have access to the fretboard then just reverse the procedure. The bridge will fall off if you turn the guitar upside down or up on it's side. It just sits over the post. If you turn the adjustment wheels it will change the height of the bridge so be careful not to move these or mark them in case you do. The Tone Pros products lock to the post and studs with allen set screws so this can not happen.

[MBmusic]

I'm not that familiar with names of the parts of the guitar so can you help me out with what parts of the guitar the post and stop bar are? And when you said not to turn the adjustment wheels, did you mean while the strings are off, or at all. I have already adjusted this to raise the action. Please Let me know what you meant by this. Thanks a lot and I really do appreciate your wonderful help.

[MBmusic]

Well, anyway, I restrung today. I took off all the strings at once, oiled the fretboard, etc... I put on some D'addario nickel wound 11's. The nickel wound 11's seemed to be much thinner and lighter than the flat wound 11's I had on before. I think it's safe to say I liked the flat wound strings better so I think I'm going to switch back to flat wounds. But in your experiences, are flat wound strings heavier and fatter than nickel wounds?... they just have totally different feel--nickel's are much lighter and tinnier--what do you guys think? Thanks so much.

[Ignatius]

Hey MB--

 

I'm sorry I didn't post sooner. It has been deader than a doornail around here, and I got bored and lately have tended to check only once every couple of days so I missed your question. I own an ES-125, and although it is a lot older than your guitar, it uses the same basic system for strings and bridge.

 

So first off: based on your pictures, you don't have a stopbar tailpiece. You have what they call a trapeze tailpiece, which means that the place where the strings anchor near the base of the guitar body is a piece of metal that swings back and forth on a hinge, like a trapeze that an acrobat uses. That is the large gold almost-trianglular piece that attaches to the bottom of your guitar.

 

You also have a floating bridge (if I am seeing it correctly in your pictures). This means that your bridge does not stay attached to the guitar in any way except through string pressure. If you take off all the strings, you can move the bridge wherever you want on the body.

 

This is why you should never remove all the strings at once from your guitar!

 

It won't damage the guitar to do this unless you let the bridge fall over and scratch the finish or if you let the trapeze tailpiece slam into the body of the guitar and damage the finish. No damage issues here, except to your pocketbook and your patience because if the bridge moved while you had your strings off, you just ruined the intonation work that you paid the luthier to do when he set up your guitar last week. You see, the placement of the bridge determines the intonation of the strings: if you move the bridge (or raise or lower its height), you change the way each individual string is tuned in relation to the neck of the guitar and to each of the other strings.

 

There is an easy way to check whether you did this. First, tune up your guitar. Then pluck the low E string at the twelfth fret. Pluck it several times until you hear the note and know it. Now, lightly tap the twelfth fret harmonic on the low E string.

 

These two tones--the fretted note at the twelfth fret and the twelfth fret harmonic--should be the exact same.

 

If they are off at all, your guitar intonation is off. Do this for each of your six strings, one by one. The twelfth fret harmonic will ALWAYS agree with whatever pitch the string is tuned to as an open string. But, if the twelfth fretted note (i.e., the octave of the open string) is sharp or flat from the harmonic, then it is also sharp or flat to the open string, which means that the string is out of tune in relation to the distance set between the nut and the bridge. The bridge moves in order to adjust the length of the string so that the twelfth fretted note matches the twelfth fret harmonic, or to put it another way, we adjust the intonation of the string so that a perfect octave of notes (E to E, A to A, etc.) occurs between the nut and the twelfth fret.

 

I am assuming this got messed up when you took all the strings off of your guitar. No problem; it is one of those live and learn moments of owning a hollow-body guitar that the Les Paul people will never experience. In the early days of playing guitar, I learned how to do intonation the hard way: by trial and error. You either can take the guitar back to the luthier, or you can try it on your own. I wrote a piece in the old forum on this very point, and I moved a copy of it to the new forum for just these situations: Setting Correct Intonation on a Hollow-Body Guitar. It will be worth it to try to set intonation on your own at some point because then you can take all the strings off at once, or better yet, you can try different string gauges (because heavier or lighter strings change intonation).

 

How do you remember where the bridge belongs? If you have to remove all the strings, use two post-it notes. Before loosening the strings, stick the sticky ends flush with the right and left bottom sides of the bridge, and mark on each note where the left- and right-most edges of the bridge are. Then loosen or remove the strings and feel free to set the bridge aside so it won't slide and damage the finish of your guitar. When you're ready to replace the bridge, line it up with the marks on the post-it notes. Then restring. Only remove the post-its after you are sure the strings are tuned up to where you want them.

 

The great bonus is that you have a bridge in which you can adjust each saddle individually (the six little screws on the bridge, when turned, will each move their respective little triangular saddle forward or backward within the bridge). I have added one of these to my ES-125, and man, it speeds up the process of fine-tuning intonation immensely. But fine-tuning assumes that you can remember where the bridge belongs in the first place. That's why it is best to never remove all your strings at once. Even just three strings will be enough to keep the bridge in its proper place. Two might, and one never will, so if you take them all off, I am willing to be the farm that the bridge moved.

 

I hope this helps. Check your intonation right away. Bad intonation makes guitar playing really hard because you keep wanting to retune. People start thinking the guitar's tuning gears aren't working and all sorts of other garbage. But good intonation brings out the best in a hollow-body, and with a bridge like yours, you can get it almost perfect. Aim for close now, but as your ear gets better, demand more, and you will soon hear a real sweetness in that guitar.

 

Last little advice: no need to oil the fretboard and stuff like that at this point. The best way to take care of a new guitar's fretboard is to get playing! The oil in your skin will oil the fretboard, especially if you work on scales and chord structures that move all over the neck. I change strings once every couple of months; unless you really are sweating, I don't think you need to do much other than wipe down the strings with a clean soft cloth after every practice. Don't over-polish a nitro finish like yours; you'll just wear it out. When your fretboard starts looking gunky from hundreds of hours of play, then worry about oiling and cleaning it. In the meantime, just play and enjoy that beautiful guitar!!

 

Good luck!

 

Ignatius

[MBmusic]

That's really helpful, thanks a lot. I also read your post on intonation. I already had restrung my guitar and oiled the fretboard when I read your post so oh well. But there is still good news. The strings I put on are too light for me and I don't really like them. I'm going to switch back to flat wound strings later today. When I switch the strings I will do an in-depth intonation adjustment to get the guitar just right for the new strings. I think it would be better to try doing the intonation myself because it's not worth it to take it back to the luthier to fix something that seems relatively easy to fix myself. I'll post how it goes later.