Monkee farewell tour

[cookieman15061]

6 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I have no issue with that, but when you are thought to be a band and play the music on the albums you make and you don't . . .  its deceiving. Did Rush or Yes have people play on their albums and take credit for it or try to pass it off as if they did. NO.

Come on, I was 6 when they debut and I knew it was a TV show. They were ripped by the media for doing nothing worse than the Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys and Birds were already doing.  They did eventually play all the instruments on their third album.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by cookieman15061

[jaxson50]

Nesmith is a good song writer and IMO was the most musically talented member of the Monkees.  The success he had as one ofbthe cast of the made for tv band did more damage to his music career because many people thought, mistakenly that none of members were capable musicians.  

He wrote Different Drum,  Linda Ronstadt's first hit, and well over 20 songs that as many artist recorded.  

 

[cookieman15061]

1 hour ago, jaxson50 said:

Nesmith is a good song writer and IMO was the most musically talented member of the Monkees.  The success he had as one ofbthe cast of the made for tv band did more damage to his music career because many people thought, mistakenly that none of members were capable musicians.  

He wrote Different Drum,  Linda Ronstadt's first hit, and well over 20 songs that as many artist recorded.  

 

I don't know. He's been an extremely successful producer of movies, music and videos along with his songwriting. I'm not buying the being a Monkee was a curse BS. Of course when your Mom invents White Out and becomes a millionaire it softens any career missteps you might have made

[Retired]

3 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

Nesmith is a good song writer and IMO was the most musically talented member of the Monkees.  The success he had as one ofbthe cast of the made for tv band did more damage to his music career because many people thought, mistakenly that none of members were capable musicians.  

He wrote Different Drum,  Linda Ronstadt's first hit, and well over 20 songs that as many artist recorded.  

 

Yes, He was actually good. Deb and I saw Micky Dolenz play with the orchestra downtown by himself. They were great. He was the only one we saw so Yes, If they play close around here we will go. I'd like to see Michael Nesmith. 

[jaxson50]

3 hours ago, cookieman15061 said:

I don't know. He's been an extremely successful producer of movies, music and videos along with his songwriting. I'm not buying the being a Monkee was a curse BS. Of course when your Mom invents White Out and becomes a millionaire it softens any career missteps you might have made

He is a talented producer as well.  Nobody took the Monkees seriously each member struggled to overcome the image of a talentless group that had to have studio musicians do all the work on records while they were still learning to play.   This method was perfected buy the Beach Boys long before the casting call went out for the Monkees tv show 

[Sgt. Pepper]

11 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

Nesmith is a good song writer and IMO was the most musically talented member of the Monkees.  The success he had as one ofbthe cast of the made for tv band did more damage to his music career because many people thought, mistakenly that none of members were capable musicians.  

He wrote Different Drum,  Linda Ronstadt's first hit, and well over 20 songs that as many artist recorded.  

 

Other than him holding a nice Martin that was pretty underwhelming.

[jdgm]

I saw Nesmith live twice, once with Red Rhodes.  He's a fine songwriter and made some excellent country-rock albums in the early 70s - with his 1st National Band  - but overreached himself with "The Prison" IMO.  He is also more or less responsible for MTV apparently.

[Sgt. Pepper]

8 hours ago, jaxson50 said:

He is a talented producer as well.  Nobody took the Monkees seriously each member struggled to overcome the image of a talentless group that had to have studio musicians do all the work on records while they were still learning to play.   This method was perfected buy the Beach Boys long before the casting call went out for the Monkees tv show 

Yeah, Brian Wilson was the brains behind that group. Those guys could sing though. Pet Sound for as great as it is must be realized it was Brain and the Wrecking Crew with the other guys just doing their vocal parts.

Its a bummer finding who you though played the music was a load of BS, but then again I guess the music is much better for it in the long run.

[Larsongs]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Yeah, Brian Wilson was the brains behind that group. Those guys could sing though. Pet Sound for as great as it is must be realized it was Brain and the Wrecking Crew with the other guys just doing their vocal parts.

Its a bummer finding who you though played the music was a load of BS, but then again I guess the music is much better for it in the long run.

You should research how the Music business was run back in those days... Most Songs came from Publishing Houses with Staff Writers. The Record Companies chose the songs Artists & Bands recorded. They molded Artists & Bands completely & made them into the Image they wanted them to be & sold them like Toothpaste....  It was an Assembly Line.. Music moved at the speed of light in the 50’s & 60’s... There was a new Artist, Band, Song & Record every other minute!

Musicians weren’t even allowed in Control Rooms in Studios like Abbey Road in the early days before The Beatles came along.... It was very different then....

Rush & Yes had a couple great songs... Great Musicians but to most are 1 or 2 Hit Wonders who don’t hold a high place in the Annals of Music... Ask a 16 year old today & they won’t know who you’re talking about... Ask them if they know Elvis or Sinatra most will...

Edited May 10, 2021 by Larsongs

[Sgt. Pepper]

49 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

Rush & Yes had a couple great songs... Great Musicians but to most are 1 or 2 Hit Wonders who don’t hold a high place in the Annals of Music... Ask a 16 year old today & they won’t know who you’re talking about... Ask them if they know Elvis or Sinatra most will...

They may know who Elvis and Sinatra are, but I doubt your average 16 year old is listening to them.

[Whitefang]

19 hours ago, Larsongs said:

I guess you have issues with Sinatra, Peggy Lee, Dean Martin & most other Artists & Bands of the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s etc & even now......

By the 60’s the Music Business was a real Assembly Line machine... It was common for Session Musicians to do the Instrumental Studio Recordings. They were fast, good & cheap. No Royalties to worry about.. The Singer would then sing to the Tracks & the Band would learn to Cover the music... Then the Suits sent the Groups on tours.. That’s how it was done.. Probably 80-90% of the Hits you heard on the Radio were done that way....

Then Artists became hip to Publushing & Writers Roylaties! Then everyone was a Writer! Which explains why Music has become increasingly worse over the years... Most people can’t Write Hits... Most people write poor to mediocre songs... Writing Hits takes Talent & Magic... That’s rare..

Through most of the '50's and shortly into the '60's most popular music was kind of like an assembly line, with most of the music coming from the Brill Building in New York, among others in a collective referred to as "Tin Pan Alley".  Singer Bobby Darin came from that background as well as singer/songwriter Carol King and husband Gerry Goffin( as a team also wrote songs for The Monkees as well as The Everly Brothers earlier along with many others)  

As it went on, it wasn't uncommon for some studio musicians to also meld into bands(Booker T and the MG's a good example)  And too some label's top performers to become staff songwriters for that label(think Smokey Robinson and Marvin Gaye  at Motown)  And other songwriters to strike out on their own and some finding great success(Neil Diamond for instance).  I'd say the singer/songwriter "boom" in the '60's only served to make music much better.  At least for a good run, but I agree Lars....  it eventually did lead to a glut of mediocre artists who could either sing but not write or vice-versa.  But I'd mostly blame the suits in charge, who never really listen to the music figuring they could make the public like whatever trash they push if pushed hard enough.  

I rather enjoyed that period when music was judged by the public by other measures than the beat(  "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it, so I'll give it an 85 ****" ) 

Whitefang

[Larsongs]

48 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

They may know who Elvis and Sinatra are, but I doubt your average 16 year old is listening to them.

Or Rush & Yes.... 

Point being about the real Music Business reality, as Whitefang mentions above, not the Fairy Tales most of us believe.... 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Larsongs

[Sgt. Pepper]

5 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Other than him holding a nice Martin that was pretty underwhelming.

Here we go again with the sad emoji's. I've heard a ton better county rock type stuff than that. But that is me. If whoever sadded me,  that may just be your cup of tea.

[Twang Gang]

Don't think I would go across the street to hear a Monkees reunion.

[Retired]

11 hours ago, Larsongs said:

You should research how the Music business was run back in those days... Most Songs came from Publishing Houses with Staff Writers. The Record Companies chose the songs Artists & Bands recorded. They molded Artists & Bands completely & made them into the Image they wanted them to be & sold them like Toothpaste....  It was an Assembly Line.. Music moved at the speed of light in the 50’s & 60’s... There was a new Artist, Band, Song & Record every other minute!

Musicians weren’t even allowed in Control Rooms in Studios like Abbey Road in the early days before The Beatles came along.... It was very different then....

Rush & Yes had a couple great songs... Great Musicians but to most are 1 or 2 Hit Wonders who don’t hold a high place in the Annals of Music... Ask a 16 year old today & they won’t know who you’re talking about... Ask them if they know Elvis or Sinatra most will...

Debbie & I were talking about that very subject today. We didn't think many kids would know about the Rat Pack?  I mentioned to her, when Nancy played with Elvis in Speedway, she was terrible at acting. Deb said, she couldn't sing either. She just got by on Daddy's fortune.  

[Retired]

On 5/7/2021 at 1:24 PM, kidblast said:

thx I figured as much, (Davy Jones gone and all,) that leaves P. Tork as the odd man out??   anyway,  Nesmith did write most of that stuff if I recall correctly..

 

I heard, Peter Tork was very talented and could play several  instruments.  Deb said he was friends with David Crosby, Is that true? 

[Sgt. Pepper]

12 hours ago, Retired said:

I heard, Peter Tork was very talented and could play several  instruments.  Deb said he was friends with David Crosby, Is that true? 

Lots of those dudes lived in Laurel Canyon. Joni, Zappa, a few of the Monkees and Stills I think. Could be very true.

[Whitefang]

12 hours ago, Retired said:

I heard, Peter Tork was very talented and could play several  instruments.  Deb said he was friends with David Crosby, Is that true? 

I mentioned earlier in this thread that Peter was friends with Stephen Stills and a bunch they both hung out with at The Troubadour.  And that Stills and the others goaded him into trying out after Stills didn't pass the audition due to his jenky teeth,  saying he resembled Stills enough to possibly get the gig.  

Whitefang

[fretplay]

I'm not sure about this nostalgia stuff but there's more of it now then ever. Image if in the sixty's the big thing was 1910s music ! However I must admit I have seen a few of the cover bands which I enjoyed but have come away well, slightly sad.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, fretplay said:

I'm not sure about this nostalgia stuff but there's more of it now then ever. Image if in the sixty's the big thing was 1910s music ! However I must admit I have seen a few of the cover bands which I enjoyed but have come away well, slightly sad.  

The real AC/DC and Rolling Stones are the world best tribute bands.

[jvi]

3 hours ago, fretplay said:

I'm not sure about this nostalgia stuff but there's more of it now then ever. Image if in the sixty's the big thing was 1910s music ! However I must admit I have seen a few of the cover bands which I enjoyed but have come away well, slightly sad.  

I believe the 60s guitar greats were listening to music from the 10s and 20s, ( got a lot of us boomers into the old stuff as well, ....)   my folks too  , hee haw and grand ol oprey were old time country, the blues greats were starting to earn....Marx Bros were still on the airwaves with Flash Gordon....I think big things stay big to a lot of folks, and  still can   have revival times exposing new generations  to the art ... have a nice day 

[cookieman15061]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:28 AM, jaxson50 said:

He is a talented producer as well.  Nobody took the Monkees seriously each member struggled to overcome the image of a talentless group that had to have studio musicians do all the work on records while they were still learning to play.   This method was perfected buy the Beach Boys long before the casting call went out for the Monkees tv show 

The difference was Brian Wilson had complete control in the studio from the start. Don Kirshner ran the show on the early Monkees records and had the music for the first album and TV season in the can waiting for the newly hired band to put the vocals on.                Tork told the story of how he showed up with his guitar for the first session and Kirshner asked him what he was doing?  Of course a line was eventually drawn with show execs Rafelson and Schneider siding with the band and giving them total control to make the music.

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, jvi said:

I believe the 60s guitar greats were listening to music from the 10s and 20s, ( got a lot of us boomers into the old stuff as well, ....)   my folks too  , hee haw and grand ol oprey were old time country, the blues greats were starting to earn....Marx Bros were still on the airwaves with Flash Gordon....I think big things stay big to a lot of folks, and  still can   have revival times exposing new generations  to the art ... have a nice day 

The popular music of the day in the '10 and '20 was Jazz, and not Miles Davis's Jazz. Here are some for the big ones from the '10's and '20's, Louis Armstrong, Scott Joplin, Jelly Roll Morton, Enrico Caruso,  Al Jolson Benny Goodman, and Tommy Dorsey.

['Scales]

4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

The real AC/DC and Rolling Stones are the world best tribute bands.

Our drummer went to see Queen last year and reckoned it was a great show - and definitely not a case of 'roll out the oldies and let them play acoustic guitars in front of an orchestra and band' type nostalgia thing - it was a full on stadium gig.

I was too young for the Monkees but vaguely remember reruns on TV around 1980. I didn't know their songs but the covers band I was in a few years ago used to often open with a pumped up version of Stepping Stone.

[Larsongs]

4 hours ago, jvi said:

I believe the 60s guitar greats were listening to music from the 10s and 20s, ( got a lot of us boomers into the old stuff as well, ....)   my folks too  , hee haw and grand ol oprey were old time country, the blues greats were starting to earn....Marx Bros were still on the airwaves with Flash Gordon....I think big things stay big to a lot of folks, and  still can   have revival times exposing new generations  to the art ... have a nice day 

Definitely a lot of the early Blues Cats from the 20’s.....