1996 Gibson Dove vs similar age SJ-200

[lhnewman]

I own a D-35 Martin, 1975....mellow, rich mid- ranges and a 2012 Guild D-55...I want to add a Gibson to the mix and wondering what anyone thinks about adding either of the Gibson's mentioned in the post?  I like finger-picking and some strumming, mixed and play songs of John Prine, Townes, Foley, ..some Petty ballads...not pure country, but country-folk.....some old Eagles, etc...any info would be helpful on tone difference on these 2 guitars...thanks....Dove vs SJ-200.....Newman

[E-minor7]

Oooohhh, , , impossible to answer or choose for you. 2 maple creatures, different yet related.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Only one factor decides : Your feeling, , , should we say soul. . 

[E-minor7]

That said there is a highly appreciated 1996 Dove in my herd.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             It has opened up wonderfully, offers 'deep projection' (a deficient self coined term) in spades and lots of character. To my ears more than the Jumbos.                                                           Sounds good, full, rich and a little sticky - you can hear the maple syrup -  especially when played acoustically, not so much on 'tape', , , though it records extraordinary well.                                                                                                                                       

Edited May 18, 2021 by E-minor7

[lhnewman]

16 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Oooohhh, , , impossible to answer or choose for you. 2 maple creatures, different yet related.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Only one factor decides : Your feeling, , , should we say soul. . 

never played a sj-200......any thoughts.....have played a 1996 Dove...nice! was wondering the difference

[lhnewman]

2 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

That said there is a highly appreciated 1996 Dove in my herd.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               It has opened up wonderfully, offers 'deep projection' (a deficient self coined term) in spades and lots of character. To my ears more than the Jumbos.                                                                                                      Sounds good, full, rich and a little sticky - you can hear the maple syrup -  especially when played acoustically, not so much on 'tape', , , though it records extraordinary well. .                                                                                                                                          

thanks for the input.....sticky?

 

[E-minor7]

Just now, lhnewman said:

never played a sj-200......any thoughts.....have played a 1996 Dove...nice! was wondering the difference

Think you wrote this as I posted the lines above.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Can't get further into a description of the difference - too difficult. You must try the stuff you normally play on both guitars to get wiser. A nice challenge this summer. 

 

[lhnewman]

Just now, E-minor7 said:

Think you wrote this as I posted the lines above.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Can't get further into a description of the difference - too difficult. You must try the stuff you normally play on both guitars to get wiser. A nice challenge this summer. 

 

its so hard to find a guitar from this era to play.....inventory slim....can't find a sj-200 in Florida !!

[E-minor7]

Just now, lhnewman said:

thanks for the input.....sticky?

 

😄 , , , hard to describe sound isn't it. We normally praise the Hummingbirds for the honey glazed dimension in their voice - the precious and treasured nectar.                                                                                         The Dove has it's own - and why not call it syrup-sweetness, , , , sticky just tried to illustrate that. .

[E-minor7]

3 minutes ago, lhnewman said:

its so hard to find a guitar from this era to play.....inventory slim....can't find a sj-200 in Florida !!

Understood - the Tube is your first guidance. Luck will be needed - hope you don't jumpstart the deal to come. All in all exciting. 

[lhnewman]

9 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Understood - the Tube is your first guidance. Luck will be needed - hope you don't jumpstart the deal to come. All in all exciting. 

sj-200's seem big sound...maybe best for live performance?.....Dove maybe better for small groups....like my girlfriend...lol

but many artists I like have played the SJ-200.......wonder what's better for fingerpicking...hope to play one soon

[lhnewman]

4 minutes ago, lhnewman said:

sj-200's seem big sound...maybe best for live performance?.....Dove maybe better for small groups....like my girlfriend...lol

but many artists I like have played the SJ-200.......wonder what's better for fingerpicking...hope to play one soon

thanks for responding....Newman

[EuroAussie]

I own both, early 2000's production. Between the two I prefer the Super Jumbo as it has a more balanced, lush tone which is simply perferct for strumming. I also like it a lot for figner picking. If you like a thicker bass, bottom end than the Dove should be a strong consideration.  

[Jinder]

Like EA, I also own both (although a ‘95 Dove and a ‘15 SJ200).

I love them both for different reasons...they are both superb guitars and, chances are, you would be happy with either. The Dove records better than any other guitar I have ever owned and is an excellent writing guitar. It has such clarity and note separation, a real cleanliness to the tone. Super balanced with a sweetness that’s irresistible.

To SJ200 is big and bold, very lush but still with the directness of Maple. A great stage guitar and records very well. I used both on my last album. For reference, here is the Dove recorded with a stereo pair of Sontronics STC-1 pencil condensers:
 

 

...and here is the SJ200 recorded with an SE Electronics R1 ribbon mic:

 

[lhnewman]

thank you for your input......really appreciate it

[DanvillRob]

7 hours ago, Jinder said:

Like EA, I also own both (although a ‘95 Dove and a ‘15 SJ200).

I love them both for different reasons...they are both superb guitars and, chances are, you would be happy with either. The Dove records better than any other guitar I have ever owned and is an excellent writing guitar. It has such clarity and note separation, a real cleanliness to the tone. Super balanced with a sweetness that’s irresistible.

To SJ200 is big and bold, very lush but still with the directness of Maple. A great stage guitar and records very well. I used both on my last album. For reference, here is the Dove recorded with a stereo pair of Sontronics STC-1 pencil condensers:
 

 

...and here is the SJ200 recorded with an SE Electronics R1 ribbon mic:

 

Jinder, Both sound great...how do you pick?    I personally like the sound of the SJ-200, but as I've said many times here....it's just too danged big for me.   I have five Dreads, two Doves, two Hummingbirds and the J-50.     I love and appreciate each of them for their own contributions.... you really have to play the Dove and SJ-200 and compare.... For me, the deciding factor wasn't the sound...it was the 'fit' of the guitar for me.

[Jinder]

1 hour ago, DanvillRob said:

Jinder, Both sound great...how do you pick?    I personally like the sound of the SJ-200, but as I've said many times here....it's just too danged big for me.   I have five Dreads, two Doves, two Hummingbirds and the J-50.     I love and appreciate each of them for their own contributions.... you really have to play the Dove and SJ-200 and compare.... For me, the deciding factor wasn't the sound...it was the 'fit' of the guitar for me.

Usually the guitar that gets the nod is the Dove for more “busy” strumming as it has a natural compression to it (as you know!) but retains clarity. The SJ200 works well for big, ringing chords and slower paced stuff. The Maple AJ is a step more strident and brash (in a good way) than the Dove, so gets used for either fingerstyle stuff that requires detail (‘Shawcross’ from my last album) or a rhythm motif that really punches through (‘Overthinkers Anonymous’ from my last album but one). My Hummingbird 12 is on a lot of my stuff providing a textural wash/sheen, and my ‘67 J45 comes out for more bluesy work. 
 

A really interesting addition recently is my Kif Wood maple and cedar 16” Jumbo. It is incredibly light and resonant and should be very useful. My producer Pete and I are in the foothills of a new album and have just cut a track using the Kif. I’m excited to see if we keep it in and how it will sit when we build the track a little more.

[DanvillRob]

1 hour ago, Jinder said:

Usually the guitar that gets the nod is the Dove for more “busy” strumming as it has a natural compression to it (as you know!) but retains clarity. The SJ200 works well for big, ringing chords and slower paced stuff. The Maple AJ is a step more strident and brash (in a good way) than the Dove, so gets used for either fingerstyle stuff that requires detail (‘Shawcross’ from my last album) or a rhythm motif that really punches through (‘Overthinkers Anonymous’ from my last album but one). My Hummingbird 12 is on a lot of my stuff providing a textural wash/sheen, and my ‘67 J45 comes out for more bluesy work. 
 

A really interesting addition recently is my Kif Wood maple and cedar 16” Jumbo. It is incredibly light and resonant and should be very useful. My producer Pete and I are in the foothills of a new album and have just cut a track using the Kif. I’m excited to see if we keep it in and how it will sit when we build the track a little more.

Just great stuff!    "I Still Believe" still knocks me out!   Tell us what was used on that song.

[zombywoof]

I would go for the guitar which sounds more chocolatey.

Attempts to describe sound often bring to mind Justice Potter Stewart's quip that while he could not use words to describe pornography he knew it when he saw it.

The only wisdom I have to share is that my wife is a strummer and plays similar stuff to you.  While I do not recall if there was a Dove or two in the number she has kicked the tires of, in 20 some odd years she has not found any guitar,  Gibson or otherwise, she has liked better than her 1960 J200.  

Edited May 19, 2021 by zombywoof

[BoSoxBiker]

I'm in that club now, just gotten the Dove a couple weeks ago. I've not recorded with it yet, but I can tell it's going to be good for it.

I really like a couple of the terms already used. "Lush" for the SJ-200 and EM7's "Deep Projection" for the Dove. There is a distinctive immersive feeling I get when playing my SJ-200's. I feel like it's coming from deep behind the guitar as opposed to in front of me and in the guitar. The SJ-200 experience is a special one. 

The Dove, by comparison, seems to send out a growling directness as if I'm shooting off a beam of tone instead of emanating from within. I also get much more of that Maple glimmer with the Dove than the SJ-200.

I find it easier to compare & contrast my Dove to my Hummingbird. My Dove shoots out dead ahead while the Hummingbird's sound blooms open like a big flower. The growling sub-1.2kHz tone that comes straight out of the Dove is quite definitive. Both are very vocal or boisterous in their own ways. And sure, sometimes that "nectar'or maybe the "syrupy" thing of the hummingbird can make one feel all warm and gooey, it doesn't come from as far back as my SJ-200's do to invoke that sense of feeling immersed or engulfed.

"Chocolatey". Now that I can dig.

Edited May 20, 2021 by BoSoxBiker

[lhnewman]

1 hour ago, BoSoxBiker said:

I'm in that club now, just gotten the Dove a couple weeks ago. I've not recorded with it yet, but I can tell it's going to be good for it.

I really like a couple of the terms already used. "Lush" for the SJ-200 and EM7's "Deep Projection" for the Dove. There is a distinctive immersive feeling I get when playing my SJ-200's. I feel like it's coming from deep behind the guitar as opposed to in front of me and in the guitar. The SJ-200 experience is a special one. 

The Dove, by comparison, seems to send out a growling directness as if I'm shooting off a beam of tone instead of emanating from within. I also get much more of that Maple glimmer with the Dove than the SJ-200.

I find it easier to compare & contrast my Dove to my Hummingbird. My Dove shoots out dead ahead while the Hummingbird's sound blooms open like a big flower. The growling sub-1.2kHz tone that comes straight out of the Dove is quite definitive. Both are very vocal or boisterous in their own ways. And sure, sometimes that "nectar'or maybe the "syrupy" thing of the hummingbird can make one feel all warm and gooey, it doesn't come from as far back as my SJ-200's do to invoke that sense of feeling immersed or engulfed.

"Chocolatey". Not that I can dig.

interesting post , thanks....I want a guitar thats different from my D-35 1975 Martin...which is lush, warm with lots of mid-ranges ( Rosewood ) and my Guild ( Rosewood ) but brighter than my Martin....

[zombywoof]

I think what most folks like about square shoulder Gibsons and in particular the maple body Doves  is the reason I have kept them at arms length.  To my ear they ring out longer and are richer in overtones and chime in the upper end.  I lean more to guitars with a quick decay and with clear but less overtone trebles.   

[Jinder]

On 5/19/2021 at 5:53 PM, DanvillRob said:

Just great stuff!    "I Still Believe" still knocks me out!   Tell us what was used on that song.

I can’t remember what we used on I Still Believe! I think it was the SJ200 but I can’t quite recall. Thanks for the kind words by the way!

[Sgt. Pepper]

21 hours ago, lhnewman said:

interesting post , thanks....I want a guitar thats different from my D-35 1975 Martin...which is lush, warm with lots of mid-ranges ( Rosewood ) and my Guild ( Rosewood ) but brighter than my Martin....

A Dove won't sound like your D-35.

[lhnewman]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

A Dove won't sound like your D-35.

good....can you expand? what will it sound like?

[BoSoxBiker]

21 minutes ago, lhnewman said:

good....can you expand? what will it sound like?

It will sound like a guitarist playing a song called, "I Beat Analysis Paralysis". 🤣   (I'm just kidding!!! - It's a joke. Take it easy!)  I actually played that song twice in the past year. Once (last July) I landed on a Rosewood SJ200 and the next time (last month) I landed on a Love Dove. The Dove came in 2nd or 3rd twice before I landed on it. 

Have you seen thing thread from last year that's made it back to the 1st page? I've long forgotten about it. There are a bunch of examples of a Dove in there, including one used on stage by one of our own. It's about 12 posts in. Take away the ambient spacial sounds of the room, echoes and any airy effects he might have on it and you can plainly hear it. A new one will need to age, but if you're looking at a 25 year old Dove already, I can't imagine that using the right pick/fingers/strings/capo/tuning will land you a million miles away from it, and that's based on my new one. A few others are in that thread, too.