Mr. Natural Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, IanHenry said: ... I think there's got to be another crash soon. When the merry go round stops, someone is going to have to pay for the ride. I think the next ten years are going to be rough (economically, socially, culturally, politically) here in the U.S., if not the entire Western world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 When I see the prices of the new Gibson's here in the UK its ridiculous when you look at the poor finishing. Bad nut and fret ends being the main parts. When you look at comparison guitars like PRS, Knaggs etc, the finish is a league above. Then there is the new 'Murphy lab' guitars. Almost doubling the Custom shop prices and it's not even done by Murphy himself. They go on about how authentic they are. The body is authentic, But the plastics are new and the fretboard isn't aged. I can't see me buying a new Gibson for a long time, if ever, 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Supposedly Hank owned something like 39% of the place and, after he sold it, his net worth was like $800,000. Subtract out the other stuff he owns - 2 cars, 1/4 of his house and the SG he broke - and you can get the idea of how much Gibson was worth when it sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Natural Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, Fish Crumpet said: Too bad so many of the spiritually delusional quite happily see it as The End Times. That makes dystopia an inevitability for the rest of us. I don't think it's "The End Times". I just think things are going to be rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Natural Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Fish Crumpet said: I didn't infer that you did. I was responding to your imagined scenario. It might be worse than you think.👍 I didn't think that you were suggesting that I was of the "spiritually delusional". I suspect that most people here that have read my comments over the years have me pegged as a regular guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I know a guy who bought a house not long ago. 10% down & monthly pmts on a 30 year mortgage.. He had the best Tax deduction an average guy can have.. The pmts he made over the next few years didn’t come anywhere near the cost of the house... He just sold it at a $350,000.00 profit after paying off the balance he owed on the mortgage... He is married so that is a Tax free Capital Gain.. Credit used intelligently can be leveraged to be a very profitable means to wealth! There's a Mexican Restaurant in another town we haven’t been to for a while. We thought we’d go & hoped they survived the pandemic.. when we got there they had added 30, or so, outside Tables to stay open.. Now inside dining is allowed & the inside was packed. The outside dining area was also packed.. They expanded their business! There are tons of stories like these.. Guitar manufacturers had the best year they’ve ever had during the pandemic.. Record sales.. Gibson already went BK & survived... They seem to be selling Guitars as fast they can build them.. They can’t build them fast enough! There is no doubt this past year has been difficult for many.. But, there is always a way.. You might have to relocate, re-educate, change professions or whatever it takes.. To stand in one place & say the sky is falling, the sky is falling doesn’t get you anywhere.. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 If you look at the current Gibson line-up, they have slimmed it right down. There are no fat semis - jazz guitars, which were once a significant part of the catalogue. They don't sell nearly enough these days - special order only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I'm not worried. As long as the Minimum Wage keeps pace with inflation, I'll be able to buy new Gibsons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, Fish Crumpet said: Don't encourage them. Can you imagine a Super 400 covered in VOSnot? As it is, the only new guitar I'd buy (the 355) is only available covered in slime. After having a USA Casino on Order for more than a year I’d like the option to buy one that is a Spec correct version of a 1965 with or without a Bigsby. Not the new one that is full of incorrect Specs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01GT eibach Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Larsongs said: ... He just sold it at a $350,000.00 profit after paying off the balance he owed on the mortgage... He is married so that is a Tax free Capital Gain ... I believe it is only a tax-free gain if you re-invest the gain into a new house within 12 months. Otherwise, it is tax city ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 13 hours ago, 01GT eibach said: I believe it is only a tax-free gain if you re-invest the gain into a new house within 12 months. Otherwise, it is tax city ... A married Couple can take up to $500,000 Tax free Capital Gain on a Sale of a Private Residence... Anything over that can be Taxed if not reinvested in another Piece of Real Estate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 "I know a guy who bought a house not long ago. 10% down & monthly pmts on a 30 year mortgage.. He had the best Tax deduction an average guy can have.. The pmts he made over the next few years didn’t come anywhere near the cost of the house... He just sold it at a $350,000.00 profit after paying off the balance he owed on the mortgage... He is married so that is a Tax free Capital Gain.. " Without more detail - I can only question your definition of 'an average guy'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01GT eibach Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 9 hours ago, Larsongs said: A married Couple can take up to $500,000 Tax free Capital Gain on a Sale of a Private Residence... Anything over that can be Taxed if not reinvested in another Piece of Real Estate.. Thanks for the correction. Clearly, my info was at least a little out of date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01GT eibach Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 On 5/30/2021 at 7:31 AM, Mr. Natural said: I don't think it's "The End Times". I just think things are going to be rough. I don't think that. In early 2020, the USA's economy was set to explode (and in a good way, I mean). Then the pandemic hit which derailed everything. Right now we are experiencing an inflationary speed bump as we exit (God willing) this pandemic period, for sure. But I think that too will right itself in a short amount of time, with the economy capable of solid positive growth (even though being reined-in by the new administrations energy and regulation policies). That all being said, the USA has been taking on scary amounts of debt, that -- with a robust economy -- we will be able to ignore like we Americans as the economy (hopefully, anyway) roars onward. However, if there ends being a major war somewhere, another pandemic, etc., the story could be the exact opposite with that USA debt being the albatross around our neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 The Stimulus Trillions we are spending on top of budget over-runs and proposed budgets that are $6 Trillion - will result in something more painful than an inflationary speed bump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 seems like they stay in business by finding new owners. ( just so long as they make good product I care not )... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Economies & Markets always have Ebb & Flow.. Its never Constant.. Even in this Twilight Zone Period of Time I will continue to bet on the USA.. As for Gibson, like everything else, they’ll never be perfect but I’ll continue to bet on their Guitars.. I believe them to be Collectible Musical Works of Art... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 They'd do better if they slashed prices by 1/4-1/5. At least that's what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I agree with P on price, I would buy more if the base price of a J 45 was 2 k not over 3k, (cdn ) I believe selling basic models at 1999.00 cdn would generate more $ in sales and SURLEY with modern equipment a j 45 or LP standard could be an affordable git. Hype shouldnt add to cost. Credit financed sales wont save the shoppers , it benefits just the corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I just read the last few posts and I am now fully anointed Capital Gains Attorney / Lawyer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: I just read the last few posts and I am now fully anointed Capital Gains Attorney / Lawyer. I’ve been in the Real Estate business for 30+ years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I don't know what Gibson's profit margins are. But most companies are lucky to make 10%. If Gibson cut their prices by 20% - 25%, they would experience a Net Loss and would be back in bankruptcy. As JVI noted, their alternative would be to try to produce more guitars ( {sarcasm font enabled} to offset their loss per unit by increasing production {sarcasm font disabled} ). Assuming they are smart enough to be using their full capacity efficiently, the only way they could offset a 20% reduction in Cash Coming In - would be to reduce quality. Cheaper Materials, Labor, Etc. by trying to produce 20% - 25% more guitars. Believing Gibson can just tweak their 'modern equipment' to get it to crank out 25% more guitars is ... well, like believing they can acquire 25% more aged tone wood at the same price. Can you say "sapele" ? Option 2 is to a subset of 'reduce quality' - move all production offshore. Of course, that is why we have Epiphone as an alternative. Either way - if Gibson went out of business or reduced quality to offset a 20% - 25% reduction in revenues - the 'value' of the Gibsons we currently posses would drop. Probably by the same rate. So - if you want a $4000 guitar for $3000 ... buy a used one in "excellent' condition. If you want a used $3000 guitar for $2400 - buy one in 'fair' condition. And so it goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Larsongs said: I’ve been in the Real Estate business for 30+ years.... I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and read a few posts on a guitar forum. See what you can learn here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Are Gibson's prices too high? Yes. Have they always been too high? Yes. But they make the best electric guitars you can get so you suck it up and do it. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 most companies make more than 10% as forty suggests, they would go out of business if the margin was 10%, and, how have the high prices worked for G in the last number of years ? (sell a 3k git for 3 k not 4 k as it seems to be. if asia can do it so can we. have a nice day .... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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