Pins???

[asmith9509]

More random musings on this topic, from a former design engineer:

 

- obviously there is some debate over how much pins contribute to tone. I believe there is a small but meaningful contribution. However, I would put forth that the aethetics of the guitar are also critical. If it were only about tone, many of us would be playing Taylor 110's or Epiphones with exposed screws, satin finish, no bling, etc.

The previous analogy about a Porsche with fabric seats and a plastic dash was totally accurate.

 

- it is possible to make plastic parts that look nice. I hate to hold Taylor up as the standard for success, but let's face it; their instruments are usually flawlessly made. They use TUSQ for nuts and saddles, but they are always perfectly made, smooth, lined up perfectly, etc. They also use inlaid ebony bridge pins on their nicer guitars.

 

- The bridge pins that came with my Gibson look like the two halves of the injection mold were misaligned by 1/2mm; the parting line that runs along the pins goes all the way around the part, there's flashing hanging all over them, etc. If the parts were properly molded and finished, they wouldn't look half as bad.

 

- I suspect that their tendency to use corian or plastic instead of bone, ivory, etc. comes down to manufacturing scale. They make hundreds of instruments a day, and buy things in large quantity. They have always been criticized for their lack of consistency from instrument to instrument. Using plastic is probably one way to ensure that the guitars leaving the manufacturing line are more consistent, because it is hard to get "biologics" in consistent supply. Trust me on this- I've had to design medical devices out of human bone in the past.

 

In a way it's unfair to compare Gibson to the super high-end manufacturers; they manufacture 10x more instruments, and have to meet a more competitive price point. I think the "Legends" series is the "Lexus" to Gibson's "Toyota". They are meant to compete with the high end stuff.

 

Me- I like to work on my instruments almost as much as I like to play them. The "good" Gibson acoustics are perfect DIY machines. I got my J-45 for 1/3 of what I would have paid for a similar Collings, Bourgeois, Santa Cruz, etc. Yes, it is a cheaper instrument but it started with pretty good aesthetics and comparable tone. I have since added the kinds of appointments you would find on the nice stuff- Waverlies, hand-made bone nut and saddle, firestripe pickguard, bone bridge pins. I'm about to rip out the UST and replace with a K&K. Consequently, the tone has improved further to be at least equal to the expensive guitars, and the looks are killer; made exactly to my preferences.

 

So yes I think that the plastic pins are chintzy. But I guess as long as they let Gibson sell great guitars for a low price, I'll take the deal.

[kazzelectro]

Modoc. My comment about Taylors seals nothing... I purchased both my Taylors impulsively and didn't spend a lot of time decided whether I liked the tone or not. They were pretty and they were Taylors and at that time that wall all that I needed to know. I changed the saddles and pins on both Taylors and tried various types of strings. The result was that I could not find anything to really like about either model....they were just okay. I do not think that at the time I knew how they were made. After giving both guitars a fair chance it was time for me to part ways with my Taylors. So I ain't following the crowd, rather I believe I have a keen ear and love well made quality built items. The pins have an effect. I am not saying plastic sounds terrible...I am saying that I can feel and hear a difference with bone vs plastic vs wood pins...and so on. I occasionally replace my bone pins with the original plastic pins and there is definitely a difference.

[modoc_333]

Modoc. My comment about Taylors seals nothing... I purchased both my Taylors impulsively and didn't spend a lot of time decided whether I liked the tone or not. They were pretty and they were Taylors and at that time that wall all that I needed to know. I changed the saddles and pins on both Taylors and tried various types of strings. The result was that I could not find anything to really like about either model....they were just okay. I do not think that at the time I knew how they were made. After giving both guitars a fair chance it was time for me to part ways with my Taylors. So I ain't following the crowd' date=' rather I believe I have a keen ear and love well made quality built items. The pins have an effect. I am not saying plastic sounds terrible...I am saying that I can feel and hear a difference with bone vs plastic vs wood pins...and so on. I occasionally replace my bone pins with the original plastic pins and there is definitely a difference.[/quote']

 

perhaps, i misunderstood, or perhaps you weren't clear... but what i read was that you liked them until you learned about their construction. that was the basis for my comment. if that was not accurate, then so be it.

[fortyearspickn]

Having replaced the plastic with the bone, and not heard any difference. ('cause I change the strings when I change the pins !) I decided back then to just take some medium grit sandpaper to the plastic pins to remove the mold panty line and flashing and the tell-tale plastic sheen. Somehow, I don't think my playing is at all affected. And I know I can't hear, feel or otherwise sense any difference.