Gibson J-45: dark grain stripes on guitar top. Yes or No?

[E-minor7]

53 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Willie Nelson, for one would beg to differ with you.

RBSinTo

Don't think so - he (if any one) loves the way his tool, the legendary Trigger, looks, , , and looked. . 

[62burst]

8 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

I have come to realize that it is impossible for me to have a guitar that doesn't caress my eye. Regardless of sound and playability.   .   .   .                                                                                                                                                                   

 

7 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

Willie Nelson, for one would beg to differ with you.

RBSinTo

Ah, invoking the Willie Nelson's Guitar Extrapolation- always handy when the subject of guitar aesthetics arises.

6 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Don't think so - he (if any one) loves the way his tool, the legendary Trigger, looks, , , and looked. . 

. . . and the argument could be made that not only does he like the way Trigger looks, it fits his look, as well. (not that it's a prop, or anything)

Willie's songwriting, vocals, playing, and timing of delivery have made him a national treasure, but would he be as well known outside of country music circles if he still had his look from when he started out?

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by 62burst

[E-minor7]

55 minutes ago, 62burst said:

56 minutes ago, 62burst said:

. . . and the argument could be made that not only does he like the way Trigger looks, it fits his look, as well. (not that it's a prop, or anything)

Willie's songwriting, vocals, playing, and timing of delivery have made him a national treasure, but would he be as well known outside of country music circles if he still had his look from when he started out?

 

Yes, exactly - Nelson an the double-hole nylon went into a symbiosis-perfectos looong ago.                                                                                                                                                                                                              Trigger not only answered his musical calls, it matched his image and made him stand out as a dinosaur, a hobo and man who (a bit too late) had paid his last coin to the taxman. Couldn't be better.

Looks as if he enjoys the electric above immensely as well. . 

 

 

[JuanCarlosVejar]

I say if you love the tone .Keep it and embrace what nature has produced for you in that piece of Sitka Spruce.

you might get a perfect top next time that won’t blow your socks off .

 

Just my 2 cents 

 

 

JC

[E-minor7]

59 minutes ago, JuanCarlosVejar said:

I say if you love the tone .Keep it and embrace what nature has produced for you in that piece of Sitka Spruce.

you might get a perfect top next time that won’t blow your socks off .

I follow the almost spiritual idea in the line above though it can be very hard to use that philosophy in case an even burst has been on ones wish'n'dream-list for years.

The first Gibson I got this time around in 2010 had a top that blew my socks off : glossy cherry ready to eat. It soon became clear they had landed inside the sound-hole.                                                                                                   It was a 1968 SJ.

[MorrisrownSal]

The look of tops never bothered me… except in the Martin 15 Series. The real Sapele stripey ones bothered me.  I’d keep that J45 though.

[62burst]

4 hours ago, Salfromchatham said:

The look of tops never bothered me… except in the Martin 15 Series. The real Sapele stripey ones bothered me.  I’d keep that J45 though.

Yeah. I got one of the earlier ones (all mahogany).  I would've posted that same observation, but I didn't know how to spell stripey. 

[Wolfi]

Hey folks,

thanks a lot for your input! Many important points you've mentioned there. Over the last two days I did start to see the beauty in the way the grain looks. It's certainly not very common, but neither is it ugly.

The only thing that I'm still unsure about is whether there is enoug saddle for a brand new guitar. It measures 2.5mm at the high E and 4.5mm at the low E between the bridge and the strings popping over the saddle. The string height is at 2.6mm at the low E on the 12th fret; I'd like to bring it down to 2.4mm. Neck relief is just perfect. How much saddle would you say should I expect on a new guitar? Is there a rate at which you could predict how fast a neck reset would be needed dependent on how much saddle there is left? Here's an image to add to the numbers stated:



Also - something that I noticed is that the fretboard is leaned a little over the sound whole compared to the other J-45 where it's all matched. All still within reason?


versus



Thanks again,
Wolf

[62burst]

Sounds like you could come down to the 2.4mm that you wanted to get to. Can you lay a straight edge on the top of the frets & see where it contacts the bridge (at, or even better, just above it's rounded forward edge, where the strings run out towards the soundhole) .

[TomPhx]

I'm a little late but my opinion is your guitar top looks fine. It looks like natural wood is supposed to look. Some grain lines and different colors running through it. The saddle looks OK, several Gibsons I'm acquainted with look similar in height. A couple were lower, with a too low action to match. On those two I had to put in a taller saddle to raise the action. Try the straight edge along the fretboard, as 62burst suggested. It should come in right at the level of the bridge, ahead of the saddle.

Edited July 11, 2021 by TomPhx

[BoSoxBiker]

1 hour ago, 62burst said:

Sounds like you could come down to the 2.4mm that you wanted to get to. Can you lay a straight edge on the top of the frets & see where it contacts the bridge (at, or even better, just above it's rounded forward edge, where the strings run out towards the soundhole) .

Has there ever been a spec or rough suggestion on that for Gibson acoustics? I've seen some grumpy conversations to that end.

2 hours ago, Wolfi said:

Also - something that I noticed is that the fretboard is leaned a little over the sound whole compared to the other J-45 where it's all matched. All still within reason

My HB is like the first picture. Just a teensy bit of top showing between. A 45 I'm having examined & set has just a bit more. Not much different.

Edited July 11, 2021 by BoSoxBiker

[bobouz]

Admittedly, aesthetics are important to me - and to my eye, that top is flat out gorgeous!

Bold grain lines with no runout..... perfect.

[Dave F]

I think it looks great.

I had a J200 that had some distinct grain.

 

[62burst]

5 hours ago, BoSoxBiker said:

Has there ever been a spec or rough suggestion on that for Gibson acoustics? I've seen some grumpy conversations to that end.

Do you mean the practice of laying a straightedge on the fretboard to check neck angle, and seeing where it contacts the bridge? I thought that was just one of the things (like measurements) that are looked at before doing setup work on a guitar. But I don't recall any grumpy conversations on the matter.

[BoSoxBiker]

8 hours ago, 62burst said:

Do you mean the practice of laying a straightedge on the fretboard to check neck angle, and seeing where it contacts the bridge? I thought that was just one of the things (like measurements) that are looked at before doing setup work on a guitar. But I don't recall any grumpy conversations on the matter.

Those grumpier of the conversations have been elsewhere, but the basic argument is that some companies use thicker bridges than others, which changes the look at one end of that test. I've seen some numbers thrown around, but I don't dare repeat them as they seemed logically derived at the time rather than shared by makers or professionals. 

That doesn't even get into the variability entered into the whole thing in the form of sufficient top bow.  

 

[Wolfi]

On 7/11/2021 at 8:55 PM, 62burst said:

Sounds like you could come down to the 2.4mm that you wanted to get to. Can you lay a straight edge on the top of the frets & see where it contacts the bridge (at, or even better, just above it's rounded forward edge, where the strings run out towards the soundhole) .

 

On 7/11/2021 at 9:17 PM, TomPhx said:

I'm a little late but my opinion is your guitar top looks fine. It looks like natural wood is supposed to look. Some grain lines and different colors running through it. The saddle looks OK, several Gibsons I'm acquainted with look similar in height. A couple were lower, with a too low action to match. On those two I had to put in a taller saddle to raise the action. Try the straight edge along the fretboard, as 62burst suggested. It should come in right at the level of the bridge, ahead of the saddle.

The straight edge contacts the bridge just slightly below the level of the saddle. I measured the distance between the guitar top and the low E string; that's about 11.5mm. Based on this article on http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html that's apparently not ideal, but still within reason? There's no way I can turn this one down. The whole body wants to vibrate and resonate by the slightest touch; it plays so effortlessly and fills the whole room. I've played well over 25 upper class (>2000$) guitars over the past few years in the big stores here and maybe one or two were on that level soundwise (as far as I can recall). Yes, I've certainly held ones in my hands that I felt like were much prettier. But you can imagine how excited I am to have found an instrument with such tonal characeristics. Would be too bad to turn it down over these issues.

Cheers, Wolf

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Wolfi

[Boyd]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:37 PM, Paul14 said:

My J-50 has very similar grain pattern. I love it . I think that J-45 is awesome.

I just got a 2020 J-50 1960's Original and it also has a similar grain pattern. I think it looks (and sounds) great and it's one of the nice things that sets it apart from my 2008 J-50 which doesn't have such a noticeable grain pattern. 

[Paul14]

Still trying to figure out posting pics????

[Paul14]

2 hours ago, Boyd said:

I just got a 2020 J-50 1960's Original and it also has a similar grain pattern. I think it looks (and sounds) great and it's one of the nice things that sets it apart from my 2008 J-50 which doesn't have such a noticeable grain pattern. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Paul14

[Paul14]

Mine is a 2001.