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Made some improvements to my EL-00


Zippydog

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Hello all, haven’t posted in a while but thought I would comment on a couple of changes I made on my natural finish EL-00 Pro.

I have been wanting to replace nut, saddle and bridge pins with bone and finally did all at once.

I messed up my first attempt with the nut and had to purchase another one. The second one turned out well and so did the saddle that I mirrored from the original. I knew I might have an issue with the size of the bridge pins as I did not order make and model specific. They were too thick but that was easily fixed by inserting the pin head into my cordless drill and using some sandpaper to shape the diameter to fit properly. I actually formed each one to fit as the hole diameters were not uniform. This worked out great!

At the same time I took care of the fretboard with some mineral oil and polished all frets using my favorite metal polish Simichrome.

I'm here to tell you all that if you have not made this exchange, you should. My EL-00 sounded good as stock. With the bones added, it sounds way more lively. The mids are rounder and the lower strings sound deeper.

I swear it was such a noticeable change, I keep finding spare time to play it. Feels and sounds like a different acoustic.

Surprisingly, the action and relief did not have to be touched. I worked real hard at setting the string height properly at the nut and the results were positive.

Now, it is possible that the last change I made,  going from stock 12 ga. strings to 13 ga. may have resulted in the biggest change in sound, but I don’t care. I really enjoyed making these modifications and I think that everything done resulted in a successful project.

 

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All this is good to hear.  Thanks for sharing. I too replaced the stock saddle on my EL-00 Pro (in sunburst), only I replaced it with a tight fitting and dense tusq saddle that, like your bone replacement saddle, made a significant difference.  I also replaced the 12s with 12.5s and like yours the heavier gauge strings also made a big difference in the sound/tone.  (I have a dwindling new old stock of discontinued Martin 80/20 Bronze SPs in light-medium gauge.  When my dwindling stock of 12.5s runs out, I plan on going to 13s on it.). I too also replaced the stock bridge pins, in my case to ebony (wood) pins that I fit quite well with a little bit of sanding.  Those too made a difference IMHO.  The only thing I didn’t change was the nut, which I plan to leave.  I also made similar changes to my Ltd Edition EL-00 Pro in Natural Mahogany with similar good results.  These EL-00 Pros are good guitars…and as you experienced, with these minor changes, really become REALLY good guitars.   On both of mine, to mic  it, I  use a Fishman Humbucker Soundhole pickup (with the cord hanging out) instead of the stock pickup in the guitars, although I’ve left it in as a backup pickup.   I find the aftermarket soundhole pickup I use is superior to the stock built in pickup.

Again, thanks for sharing.  Good to hear your improvements made a big difference.

 

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

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Thanks Jazzman,

Hey, speaking of pick ups, what’s your thoughts on the saddle resting directly on the pickup wire?

What (if any) does this do to sound thinking in terms of sound resonance?

Would it make a difference if the saddle was resting directly on the wood bridge?

I rarely plug in and I’ve been toying with the idea of replacing the saddle (again) with another one taller to compensate for the missing wire.

Its the thought of the saddle sitting on the wire that makes me wonder.

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The original 1930s L-00 is one tough act to follow.   But after 55+ years of playing and having tried every saddle, pin and nut material on the face of the earth (including a bakelite bridge and bridge pins) I have never heard any real appreciable difference in any of my guitars.   Generally I just go with whatever my repair guy uses in his setups which is bone.  If you think about it though the nut in particular is taken out of play as soon as you fret a note.  Generally I do stick with a bone saddle but have, as example, been going with Antique Acoustics hard plastic pins.  It has nothing to do with sound but everything to do with aesthetics.

Edited by zombywoof
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11 hours ago, Zippydog said:

Thanks Jazzman,

Hey, speaking of pick ups, what’s your thoughts on the saddle resting directly on the pickup wire?

What (if any) does this do to sound thinking in terms of sound resonance?

Would it make a difference if the saddle was resting directly on the wood bridge?

I rarely plug in and I’ve been toying with the idea of replacing the saddle (again) with another one taller to compensate for the missing wire.

Its the thought of the saddle sitting on the wire that makes me wonder.

On mine, I left the whole stock pickup mechanism in place, including the piezo thing under the saddle, even though I don’t use it.  I like the way the guitars sound, so I’m not tempted to remove the under saddle thang.  I doubt it has any significant effect on the sound as so many guitars these days have the under saddle piece.  If it was a major issue, we’d have heard of a major amount players constantly complaining,  although I’m sure there are some who feel in principle that it might slightly take away from the sound.   I personally am of the opinion that a tight fitting saddle helps the sound, but by tight fitting I’m referring to how the saddle fits into the two sides of the slot…as sound translates not only from the bottom of the saddle to the guitar but also from the two sides of the saddle to the two sides of the slot to the bridge.   And, if the bottom sits tight against the wire, the wire sits tight against the bottom, so there’s a sound transfer taking place in that tight place.   On one of my square neck resonator guitars, I have a cut sixth string  stuck under the saddle in the bridge to slightly raise the action…that I did about ten years ago as a temporary makeshift way to raise the saddle.  It sounds so good with it under there that it’s still there after all these years.   So I can’t really conceive that a little piezo wire in there can be detrimental to the sound.

Just my opinion.

 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

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17 hours ago, QuestionMark said:

On mine, I left the whole stock pickup mechanism in place, including the piezo thing under the saddle, even though I don’t use it.  I like the way the guitars sound, so I’m not tempted to remove the under saddle thang.  I doubt it has any significant effect on the sound as so many guitars these days have the under saddle piece.  If it was a major issue, we’d have heard of a major amount players constantly complaining,  although I’m sure there are some who feel in principle that it might slightly take away from the sound.   I personally am of the opinion that a tight fitting saddle helps the sound, but by tight fitting I’m referring to how the saddle fits into the two sides of the slot…as sound translates not only from the bottom of the saddle to the guitar but also from the two sides of the saddle to the two sides of the slot to the bridge.   And, if the bottom sits tight against the wire, the wire sits tight against the bottom, so there’s a sound transfer taking place in that tight place.   On one of my square neck resonator guitars, I have a cut sixth string  stuck under the saddle in the bridge to slightly raise the action…that I did about ten years ago as a temporary makeshift way to raise the saddle.  It sounds so good with it under there that it’s still there after all these years.   So I can’t really conceive that a little piezo wire in there can be detrimental to the sound.

Just my opinion.

 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

You’re probably right.

After all, why would a guitar company that has been making acoustic guitars for 140 years want to hurt sound quality?

Sometimes I think that I think too much!

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  • 3 months later...
1 hour ago, Paul14 said:

Anybody know what the original saddle material is?  Mine is a 2011 EL00 not a pro. The nut looks to be plastic, but the saddle appears to be something else?

It’s some kind of synthetic.    They called it synthetic bone on both the EL-00 and EL-00 Pro.  Probably it’s some form of tusq.  Although, I changed mine out from its original saddle to a tusq saddle that cost about $15 that seemed to have more density to it and gave it more depth and volume to the sound, and seemed to fit tighter.

I’m not aware that the EL-00 and the EL-00 Pro differed in their saddle.  My understanding is that the main differences between the non-Pro and the Pro was that the Pro (which replaced the non-Pro) had a pickup and a D shaped neck while the non-Pro had no pick up and a C shaped neck.  Plus, the Pro had a slightly wider nut than the non-Pro’s 1.6875’ nut.  BTW, there originally was a different EL-00 shape circa or pre-2005 for a year or so that had a slightly different body shape than the EL-00 or EL-00 Pro shape of the ones we haven’t accustomed to normally seeing these days.  (Jinder, on this forum used to own one of the different shaped EL-00s.)

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

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43 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

It’s some kind of synthetic.    They called it synthetic bone on both the EL-00 and EL-00 Pro.  Probably it’s some form of tusq.  Although, I changed mine out from its original saddle to a tusq saddle that cost about $15 that seemed to have more density to it and gave it more depth and volume to the sound, and seemed to fit tighter.

I’m not aware that the EL-00 and the EL-00 Pro differed in their saddle.  My understanding is that the main differences between the non-Pro and the Pro was that the Pro (which replaced the non-Pro) had a pickup and a D shaped neck while the non-Pro had no pick up and a C shaped neck.  Plus, the Pro had a slightly wider nut than the non-Pro’s 1.6875’ nut.  BTW, there originally was a different EL-00 shape circa or pre-2005 for a year or so that had a slightly different body shape than the EL-00 or EL-00 Pro shape of the ones we haven’t accustomed to normally seeing these days.  (Jinder, on th is forum used to own one of the different shaped EL-00s.)

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

Thanks for the info. I was thinking to do the same with mine. (Changing to a tusq saddle). I’ve  used Graphtech  in the past.  Pretty reasonable on eBay.

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  • 1 year later...

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