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I purchased a J-15 new at Sam Ashe in Tampa. When I changed strings I noticed a large yellow X in magic marker on the back of the headstock. It signifies a reject. I didn't know why, it played great. Some time later while cleaning if my wife saw places on the back. Upon inspection it appears to have been rejected because someone buffed thru the clear coat on the back. After many attempts I reached Terry Greene who said to ship it to them along with purchase receipt and pictures. I shipped it in case for $83. Then get an email from Terry Greene and Timothy Tucker it was assigned to a tech. He says pick guard was loose. I'm not worried about pick guard. The issues are on th back. Terry says it happened after it left he factory. BS. Why would I put a large yellow X on the back of the headstock, buff trough two places on the back, then clear coat over it leaving over pray all over. They just don't want to admit selling a defect at full price. I have pictures. They still haven't returned my guitar. 

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I see those.   Why would they use  wax marker?    They must have bad lighting issues in Bozeman.   Those look terrible.  And yes. I could see that happening.  Ive seen pencil marks under clear finishes from there. 

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24 minutes ago, slimt said:

I see those.   Why would they use  wax marker?    They must have bad lighting issues in Bozeman.   Those look terrible.  And yes. I could see that happening.  Ive seen pencil marks under clear finishes from there. 

From the serial number the guitar is a few years old … Any number of things could have happened to that guitar especially at Sam Ash. 

 

JC

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54 minutes ago, Perry Mattingly said:

I purchased a J-15 new at Sam Ashe in Tampa. When I changed strings I noticed a large yellow X in magic marker on the back of the headstock. It signifies a reject. I didn't know why, it played great. Some time later while cleaning if my wife saw places on the back. Upon inspection it appears to have been rejected because someone buffed thru the clear coat on the back. After many attempts I reached Terry Greene who said to ship it to them along with purchase receipt and pictures. I shipped it in case for $83. Then get an email from Terry Greene and Timothy Tucker it was assigned to a tech. He says pick guard was loose. I'm not worried about pick guard. The issues are on th back. Terry says it happened after it left he factory. BS. Why would I put a large yellow X on the back of the headstock, buff trough two places on the back, then clear coat over it leaving over pray all over. They just don't want to admit selling a defect at full price. I have pictures. They still haven't returned my guitar. 

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What year did you purchase the guitar ? 
 

 

 

JC

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I don't know where you got the yellow x signifies a reject, that is the first I ever heard that.

I have to ask, and I'm not breaking your bawls.  How did you leave the store without seeing this yellow x and the clearcoat farts on the back?

rct

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35 minutes ago, rct said:

I don't know where you got the yellow x signifies a reject, that is the first I ever heard that.

I have to ask, and I'm not breaking your bawls.  How did you leave the store without seeing this yellow x and the clearcoat farts on the back?

rct

Probably by placing on foot in front of the other repeatedly, until he was outside.

What difference does it make?

He missed it, and now he wants the store to provide good customer service and rectify the situation to his satisfaction, which is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

RBSinTo

 

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9 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Probably by placing on foot in front of the other repeatedly, until he was outside.

What difference does it make?

He missed it, and now he wants the store to provide good customer service and rectify the situation to his satisfaction, which is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

RBSinTo

 

 

What else did he miss?  If it says CLEARANCE ALL SALES FINAL or it says AS IS on the tag and he missed it, it is going to make a really big difference.

rct

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To answer a few of your questions. How did I leave with that x on it. I asked the Manager at Sam Ashe for the best acoustic I could get for $1500. He handed me Martin Taylor, Gibson and let me play. My dad played Gibson during his touring days in Texas and I liked the scale length and look. So I decided on the J-15. He went to the back and brought me a new one in a case. He opened it at the check out and I looked at it. Never took it out of the case. Some of you may have dozens of guitars and think $1500 is chicken feed. I'm not in that category. I brought it home, played it and loved it. I played it everyday for a month. Changed strings and saw the X. I didn't go over it with a magnifying glass and didn't see anything wrong. I went in case and stayed there 3 years. I have Epiphone PS350SR I like to record with and I play that usually. I have a Epiphone Joe Pass I play occationally, and an Alvarez Baritone that just sits there. I didn't want to wear out the Gibson because I planned on giving it to my son when I check out. I'm old. My wife suggested just playing it because I loved it so much and won't live long enough to wear it out. So I did. Recorded several songs and the neck was sticky. I cleaned it and waxed the neck. When I was doing that my wife asked what those spots were. I held it to the light and saw all the flaws. Thats when I knew was a reject. Most likely failed inspection, was sent through again, camflauged and got sent out. I just happened to be the unfortunate fool who got it. I really didn't wat to hand down. a reject to my son so I called Gibson. I had a hard time even finding a person. Then I reached Terry Greene customer service. He said send pictures. I did. He said ship it up there but I pay shipping. $83. Shipped in case with recipe and in a Gibson J45 box I got from Sam Ashe. The refereed it to Timothy Tucker and then Terry Greene said It didn't leave factory that way and would not repair it. They said they would ship it back. It has never arrived but I assume it will one day. The facts simple. It should have never been sold. 

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Well, that's a long story and a sad one I'm sorry to say.

I don't know about the Yellow X thing.  That looks like some sort of finish burble blurp of some kind.

The clearcoat stuff on the back is not warranted in any way.  If the Yellow X is finish, it is also not warranted in any way.  The finish of a Gibson guitar is not in any way under any warranty.  I'm sorry that happened to you.

rct

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5 minutes ago, Perry Mattingly said:

RCT what else did he miss???? I paid full priced $1637 and sent recipe with guitar as instructed. If it was clearance I wouldn't be on here complaining. 

 

Ok well, I was answering the question "what difference does it make"?  It makes a lot of difference.  You have a guitar that has flaws or problems that are not warranted and that's what they are going to tell you.  Where did you get this Yellow X Reject thing?  Who told you that?   That mark looks more like some kind of case/lining glue thing, which is unfortunate because again, the finish is not warranted.

It sucks all around.  BUT.  It plays well and sounds good, you are not handing your son a reject in any way.  It has character that no other J-15 has.

rct

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Gibson may have shipped a guitar with flaws, their final QC should have caught any issues and sent it back. But it is the responsibility of the dealer to have inspected it, caught them, rejected it and sent it back.  You, as purchaser should have inspected it, caught it and Not Purchased it.   Once walk out the door - there is always the possibility they can say it was clean when they sold it to you.  Someone at Gibson or SAsh put that yellow X on the back of the headstock for a reason.   JCV asked when you bought it: If it took you more than a couple of days to notice it and report the issues to Sash,  you may be pushing on a rope.  If it was sitting in Sash for several years - the damage (which doesn't look like a buffing issue, but I can't tell from the photos) could have occurred there. Strange they didn't take it out of the case and encourage you to play it.  Lots of questions.  Don't think you'll get any answers here. 

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I get when you buy a guitar online you don't get the opportunity to inspect it or play it first. But who buys a guitar from a music store without playing or inspecting the guitar first.

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I agree with others that the discoloration looks like it interacted with something possibly in the case.    Trying to piece the chronology together on this one though will have me running for some aspirin (or something stronger).  But if I have it right:

You purchase a Gibson at a big box store.  Not the one you tried out but one brought out from the back room which nobody pulls out of the case.  Odd that because  in over half a century of walking into music stores in maybe  six states I have never not had a sales person bring out a guitar they did not pull from the case and hand to me.  

Then you play it daily for a month without noticing anything out of the ordinary.  Upon seeing the discoloration or whatever it is on the back of headstock  rather than contact the store you stash the guitar away in its case for three years.

At you wife's suggestion you resurrect the guitar upon which she notices more flaws in the finish.   It is then you contact Gibson customer service.  

My opinion?  If the flaws bothered me to the point it distracted me from enjoying the guitar I would have a stinger painted on the back of the headstock.  But if nothing else you have a guitar with a rather strange back story to give your son.

Edited by zombywoof
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I’ve never heard of a yellow “X” (or an X of any color) being used to signify a reject or factory second. It makes no sense. 

As far as the back goes, maybe the finish hadn’t fully cured when it left the factory and all that time sitting in the case caused some sort of reaction.

I get it that a $1,600 guitar represents a big chunk of change to you. Does to me, too. All the more reason to sit with the guitar IN THE STORE, playing it, looking it over closely, even putting an inspection mirror inside before you lay down your hard-earned cash and walk out with the guitar. To me, that is very basic stuff and there is just no excuse for not doing it. You don’t have to be an expert to sit with the guitar and answer the questions “Does this guitar sound good to me?” and “Are there any apparent defects or signs of sloppy workmanship in this guitar?”

I don’t want to sound unsympathetic, but I keep coming back to the phrase caveat emptor.

Also, I don't understand calling out the Gibson customer service reps by name for ridicule. That doesn't get you anywhere. I have no dog in this fight; I've never dealt with either guy that I know of but they're just guys doing their job. They deal with numerous complaints/issues a day (I'm sure they have all kinds of stories...) but I'm willing to bet they know more about what can go wrong with guitars -- and what the warranty covers -- than you do. I know some folks want to demonize customer service reps when they won't agree with us, but sometimes we just have to face reality.

Edited by dhanners623
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Well I've read  few more comments and it appears if you love Gibson you're going to side with Gibson. That's fine. You can blame me and that's fine too. But not being accustomed to purchasing $1600 guitar or going to 6 states or using mirrors I errored. As far as Sam Ashe being anything but helpful, I commend them for helping me find the invoice, recipe, transaction record off the register. The record was kept in New York, they searched and found it. I thank them for that. Zombywoof, you have the story pretty much as accurate as it can get with my memory or lack thereof. I didn't understand Sting on the back part though. channels623, You must buy a lot of guitars, I don't. It took me 2 years to save up for that one. I do visit  a lot of guitar stores and have never seen anyone use a mirror. As far playing it, I played the display of each brand, it had the normal pick scratches and he said I'll go in back and get a new one. I thought it was normal. Thats what they do with golf clubs. I can accept no help from Gibson, heck if I made a guitar and it looked like, I wouldn't want to admit it was my fault either. They yellow X part keeps coming up, it doesn't wipe off because it appears to have the clear coat finish over it. Hence done at the factory. Breaking through the clear coat with sandpaper or buffing wheel would require extensive time to refinish. Lacquer would need to be sanded down to wood evenly across the back, resealed, resprayed. Along with neck and headstock ( to remove yellow X) Not a huge deal at a factory but next to impossible at a Big Box Music store. But I'm beating a dead horse here and won't comment further. I appreciate some of your comments and understand some of the less than needed statements. BUT, Gibson is in error. Customer service is horrid, Regardless of you opinions. Most of the numbers for Gibson on the internet are not in service or disconnected, when you reach customer service it should be just that, customer service. Not a cold,  aggravated , unsympothetic,  crafty blame dodger.  The phone call should have been something like this. Hello sir, I'm sorry you had an issue with one of our products could you be more specific as to the issue. Could you send pictures so we can discuss it further. I do see where the finish is blemished and has over spray. Did you purchase the guitar new ? Do you have the recipe ? I apologize again for your inconvenience. We would need to inspect it further to make a determination of how this happened. Please ship it to us at ..... Upon inspection or the back and head stock, a phone call would have been made about hat they saw. Not an email talking about the front of the guitar and a pick guard being raised up. No mention of X, no explanation of how I was supposed to have obtained the exact same wood stain and use the same exact lacquer to respray it. Ok, I'm off the soap box, Gibson is not what I expected quality wise or diffenately customer service wise.  Terry Greene is anything buy customer service, Timothy Tucker isn't much help either. Enjoy your Gibsons and if need a mirror to see if it is built right, well your buying the wrong brand.

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Few people can list more complaints about Gibson than the folks on this forum. We have lived through some really disappointing guitars out of that company and we've been pretty vocal about it. We've also found some truly inspiring instruments that are among the best production-line guitars ever made by anyone.

I'm sorry you had issues, but here's the deal: When you buy a guitar in a store, you play and inspect THE ACTUAL GUITAR YOU ARE BUYING before leaving the store with it. It takes all of 10 minutes. That applies whether you're a beginner or experienced player. That applies to any guitar, no matter the price. If you're buying online, deal with a retailer who has a return policy.

You wouldn't buy a car without first sitting in it or taking it for a test drive. It is really that simple.

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Guitars are not golf clubs........each is an individual, often as different as night and day.  It's on you for not removing the second guitar from the case and doing a thorough inspection before laying down your money.  And then, after discovering cosmetic issues, you put the guitar away for three years before deciding it's time to bring them to the attention of the dealer and Gibson.  It's you for not attending to your concerns immediately.........how could you expect a dealer or manufacturer be accountable for cosmetics after three years?  That's just wrong thinking.

Who told you an "X" on the headstock indicates a reject?  That's nonsense.  I have seen many factory seconds with a "2" stamped in the headstock just below the serial number and those are shipped and sold by dealers at reduced prices.   Seconds generally have some cosmetic issue that most would be hard pressed to find.

I'm all for calling a spade a spade when that is in fact the case, but from the story you have told here this is all on you and attempting to shift blame to Gibson is.....well......bullshit.

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1 hour ago, Perry Mattingly said:

...and he said I'll go in back and get a new one. I thought it was normal. Thats what they do with golf clubs....

So if you take home a new set of clubs, which can be really expensive from what I understand, you haul them out on the links and the 9 Iron is twisted a bit and the 3 Wood has a dodgy grip on it, do you put them away for three years and then try to do something about it?  Seriously.

Nobody here is taking Gibson or your side.  Guitars are guitars, facts are facts.  It is a bad story, and I'm sorry this happened to you.  Yes, every guitar has to be evaluated as an individual, and that's precisely because of the limits of any warranty and the difficulties dealing with a company like Gibson.  Good luck with it.  I think it will make a nice heirloom, little warts and all.

rct

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Perry,     Nitrocellulose is the final finish they use - it is still 'sticky' when the guitar is brand spanking new.  You remember that from 3 years back.   It will absorb stains and will ripple and waffle if something foreign is left on it.  Skinny Boy Jackson above may have discovered the origin of the mystery X.  It is not a 'reject' mark: if you didn't leave a tuner or capo on, someone might have in SAsh.  Again, that's why you inspect the guitar in the store and go over it with a 10x the day you bring it home.  The marks on the back - I still don't believe they are from buffing  -  more likely something in the case interacting with the nitrocellulose. Maybe a couple of rolled up strings?     You  praise the guitar specialty  store that sold you an allegedly defective guitar for providing you with the receipt.  Why did you need that receipt?   Did you not register your new purchase with Gibson 3 years ago?     Your final complaint is that Gibson said they'd return it  but you haven't received it.  You didn't mention how long you've been waiting.   Sorry -  this is all on you.  

You came here for support from the forum members and to embarrass Gibson on social media.  Didn't work - so you dismiss our objectivity.  Fine.  Ask yourself honestly - if you took this case as you laid it out here, to Small Claims Court -  do you think you'd have a snowball's chance in he1i  of winning ?  How about the Court of Popular Opinion?    I submit  "there's not a court in the land..".     Do you think even "AmazingAmazon" would back you?  

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Thanks everyone for your input. I apologize for my awful spelling. I also apologize if this is my own fault for not inspecting it. Not making excuses here but I am 80% vision impaired from diabetes. I would never have seen the spots if not for my wife pointing them out. I can feel them though.  It is well made structurally. The yellow X is the only thing I saw wrong when it went into the case. If I had seen the other spots I would have taken it back. The yellow X was a mark of being rejected only in my presumption, I couldn't think of any other reason for it to be there. Thanks for everyones opinion, and I concide you may be correct but in my heart I feel I am. Have a great day and sorry for the rant. 

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12 minutes ago, rct said:

No apology needed to this crowd.  Clean it up, play it, pass it on to family.  It's a great guitar even with some cosmetic flaws.

rct

+1 on this- your son isn't going to love it because you kept it in a case and it's in great shape- he'll love it because it will remind him of you playing it and the music and times shared together. See this thread for an example of how this ends up happening. Everyone gets mad at themselves when they make the first ding in something expensive but after that the honest wear becomes a badge of honor. they're instruments meant to be played. 

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