Bad sounding G string on Gibsons - is there a fix?

[Robzoid]

So, in my experience, an unwound G string has always had a bad sound on Gibsons. I really want to fix this issue because otherwise, Gibsons have THE best tone imo. I would describe the G string sound as an unpleasant metallic thud. It gets worse with a higher gauge the G string. It's only for fretted notes and seems to get worse as you go higher on the neck. I've encountered this on TOM bridges and with wraparounds. 

With a set of 8s, I can almost get rid of it. For some reason, with Fenders, I don't have this issue. Although, I imagine I would if I used some really heavy strings like 12s or 13s. On a Fender, with a set of 9s or 10s, the G string "snaps" just like the B and E string. On Gibsons, with a set or 9s or 10s, the G string thuds. 

Does anyone know of the cause of this? And is there a fix? My thoughts of what it could be: 

-shorter scale length
-Gibson frets (all the ones I've played have had short, rounded frets)
-neck angle / break angle at the bridge (maybe the neck angle and the pressure it creates on the bridge makes it harder for the G string to snap like the B or E so it "thuds" instead)
-string getting snagged in someway inside the slot of the bridge. 
-string break from the nut to the tuner causing the issue somehow

Thankfully I found a video demonstrating it: 

You can hear it at: 

0:37 - 0:40
0:54 - 0:57
2:29 - 2:31
4:56 - 5:01 - maybe the best example

Also, I'm pretty confident it's not the pickups' magnetic field and I don't want to switch to wound G strings to avoid the problem. 

 

[rickc]

Nice guitars Robzoid.  I can hear the same on your Strat.  Sounds like the string is choking/buzzing a little on both guitars.  How low do you go action wise?  I've owned my 87 LPC since new and set it at factory specs (3/64" - 5/64") with EB 009 or 008 sets and do not experience G string issues.  I find the LPC more sensitive to weather changes than my Strat and probably tweak the action two or three times a year to correct.  I have an ES-335 that  is the same but an ES-Artist that is solid as a rock.  It has a 3-piece neck.  I think this may help with stability.   Check my other G string issue response: could be a saddle notch issue or slightly collapsed bridge if your LP is older.  I enjoyed your video; great playing; nice amp.

[Robzoid]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for not specifying. I just happened to find that video on Youtube. I believe the Strat may have some higher gauge strings on it, which is why it has that sound. So if it is a saddle notch issue, would you recommend some sanding/filing to widen the notch to give the G string more space?

[vinnier6]

Yep, my 2021 slash G string has the same thud almost muted/choked sound

[merciful-evans]

11 hours ago, Robzoid said:

So, in my experience, an unwound G string has always had a bad sound on Gibsons. I really want to fix this issue because otherwise, Gibsons have THE best tone imo. I would describe the G string sound as an unpleasant metallic thud. It gets worse with a higher gauge the G string. It's only for fretted notes and seems to get worse as you go higher on the neck. I've encountered this on TOM bridges and with wraparounds. 

With a set of 8s, I can almost get rid of it. For some reason, with Fenders, I don't have this issue. Although, I imagine I would if I used some really heavy strings like 12s or 13s. On a Fender, with a set of 9s or 10s, the G string "snaps" just like the B and E string. On Gibsons, with a set or 9s or 10s, the G string thuds. 

Does anyone know of the cause of this? And is there a fix? My thoughts of what it could be: 

 

Heavier gauge strings may snag / bind in the nut. This is common with Gibson's. It generally is the G string too. So are you also experiencing tuning issues with the G? 

As the string path is angled at the nut, the string is pulling sideways as it is tensioned by the tuner. 

If so you may need to carefully widen the slot and maybe 'round' the exit point of the slot to ease this.

[Robzoid]

1 hour ago, merciful-evans said:

Heavier gauge strings may snag / bind in the nut. This is common with Gibson's. It generally is the G string too. So are you also experiencing tuning issues with the G? 

As the string path is angled at the nut, the string is pulling sideways as it is tensioned by the tuner. 

If so you may need to carefully widen the slot and maybe 'round' the exit point of the slot to ease this.

The tuning isn't terrible but it could be better.  Do think widening the G string nut slot would affect the sound of fretted notes?

[rct]

13 minutes ago, Robzoid said:

The tuning isn't terrible but it could be better.  Do think widening the G string nut slot would affect the sound of fretted notes?

Yes, Merciful-Evans is right about that.

If the nut isn't stopping the string at the fretboard side, and is instead stopping the string at that point where it goes off to the t00ner, it will thunk out, especially on modern day plastics.  The string needs to stop firmly at the fretboard side of the nut, get a tad deeper towards the headstock, and make a little driveway apron out of the nut and off to the tuner.  Most do both sides of the string center just a bit, looks better than just the side the string goes to.

rct

[rickc]

All is now clear Robzoid.  A dead fretted string does suggest an issue between the fret and bridge or maybe just a bad string.  Lots of quirks with Gibsons and other guitars too.  I spend a lot of time playing my guitars unplugged while watching TV or just hanging out at home.  When unplugged, there's nothing hiding/masking string issues; every sitar, fret buzz and rattle is much more obvious; fix them and make them go away!  Other than my weather related issues described earlier, I've been lucky with my guitars.  One other thing I forgot to mention is the hump in the neck around the 16th fret and higher on some set-neck guitars; I've never experienced this but it is mentioned in many forums.  Instead of a slight drop in the fret level after the 16th fret, the frets can hump up a little, usually worse in the middle as I understand, so a buzzing G can result.  However, this doesn't explain the overall deadness you and others describe.

A few of the girls:

https://imgur.com/463bfUm

Edited August 8, 2021 by rickc

[Robzoid]

14 hours ago, rickc said:

All is now clear Robzoid.  A dead fretted string does suggest an issue between the fret and bridge or maybe just a bad string.  Lots of quirks with Gibsons and other guitars too.  I spend a lot of time playing my guitars unplugged while watching TV or just hanging out at home.  When unplugged, there's nothing hiding/masking string issues; every sitar, fret buzz and rattle is much more obvious; fix them and make them go away!  Other than my weather related issues described earlier, I've been lucky with my guitars.  One other thing I forgot to mention is the hump in the neck around the 16th fret and higher on some set-neck guitars; I've never experienced this but it is mentioned in many forums.  Instead of a slight drop in the fret level after the 16th fret, the frets can hump up a little, usually worse in the middle as I understand, so a buzzing G can result.  However, this doesn't explain the overall deadness you and others describe.

A few of the girls:

https://imgur.com/463bfUm

Actually now that you mention it being between the bridge and the fret, I've never bothered to notch my bridge saddles. Maybe the notch hasn't been wide enough for my g string this whole time. 

[ken374]

no problems with my 2020 Paul and 2017 I use a TC tuner I did a have a bad G string that woulnt intonate so I replace it all good.

[rickc]

Robzoid: The bridge saddles only need enough of a notch to stop the string moving across the top of the saddle.  I've seen vids of folk tapping an old string with a hammer just hard enough to make a little notch.  Factory saddles have notches but if you have replaced yours with a new one, it may not have any.  You have to be careful with the non wound strings; if the notch is too wide, sitar-like buzzing can occur at the saddle.

[vinnier6]

The solution to my “perceived” g string issue is a lighter 16 gauge g string…I had 10’s on the guitar because that’s what it came with and I decided to go with a set of 9.5’s which has a 16g g string….low and behold the g string now rings out beautifully!  
 

I say perceived problem because I think it’s how my brain is hearing the heavier g string….maybe, anyway I should probably just make the switch to a full set of 9’s, but for now I am going to stick with the 9.5’s

[merciful-evans]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:02 PM, vinnier6 said:

The solution to my “perceived” g string issue is a lighter 16 gauge g string…I had 10’s on the guitar because that’s what it came with and I decided to go with a set of 9.5’s which has a 16g g string….low and behold the g string now rings out beautifully!  
 

I say perceived problem because I think it’s how my brain is hearing the heavier g string….maybe, anyway I should probably just make the switch to a full set of 9’s, but for now I am going to stick with the 9.5’s

A different gauge string may sit in the slot (bridge and/or nut) differently & sound better or worse if the slots are imperfectly cut. 

[vinnier6]

On 8/4/2021 at 8:14 AM, Larsongs said:

Evidently he’s beyond the Return & Exchange period or wants to keep it. In that case, If the OP has an excellent Set up & the problem persists this would be the next thing I would do…. Have a new quality Bone Nut installed & have it Custom Cut for his Guitar…

 

On 8/20/2021 at 2:52 AM, merciful-evans said:

A different gauge string may sit in the slot (bridge and/or nut) differently & sound better or worse if the slots are imperfectly cut. 

Absolutely 

[AndyC66]

Hi there - I’m following up on this as I bought an ES-339 (lifelong ambition as a Freddie King fan) but the G string is kind of dead and buzzy despite a good set up. I’ve narrowed it down to the bridge…but now I don’t know what I can do…is the slot maybe to wide?? I play 11-50s so not light.

[Eracer_Team]

@AndyC66  this probably should be in it's own thread

Are you sure you mean bridge and slot too wide?

With thicker strings; nut needs to wider to move freely. Bridge only needs a slot so it doesn't move.

If the nut is cut too low then the string will buzz open on first couple of frets only. 

Bridge won't. 

But you can always raise the bridge with thumb wheels if you absolutely feel it's the bridge 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I read somewhere it has to do with the 24.75” scale that Gibson Heads have to have due to tradition. Fenders are 3/4” longer and don’t do that.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[SteveFord]

For 11s you'd want to widen the slot a little bit.

Try putting a little relief in the neck, it sounds like the truss rod is too tight.

[AndyC66]

2 hours ago, SteveFord said:

For 11s you'd want to widen the slot a little bit.

Try putting a little relief in the neck, it sounds like the truss rod is too tight.

Thanks guys for your info! I’ll loosen the neck a little and have a look at the nut…anyone have an online guide to widening the nut slots? I can of course search, but if anyone can send me straight to a great vid that would be great!

[SteveFord]

I use a welders tip file, you can get them on Amazon for under $10.  You just want to make the slot a little wider, not deeper.

If the neck doesn't have enough relief it'll fret out on the first 3 or 4 frets on the G string, that kind of sounds like what you're describing.

If the nut isn't wide enough you'll hear a "plink" when you're tuning the string.

I use 11s on all of my Gibson electrics so run a file through the nut slots as soon as they'd show up (along with Lemon Oil and new strings, of course).