Who lives forever anyway?

[sparquelito]

The passing of Charlie Watts earlier today, and the demise of Dusty Hill a few weeks ago.
(And the death of David Bowie a few years ago, I must mention.)

It has given me pause to consider the question, who exactly lives forever?
Can any of us name somebody who has achieved lifelong immortality?

Let's set aside Christ and Buddha and Vishnu and all the other manifestation of our Almighty God.
I'm talking about human beings that we have come to know and love and cherish.

Can any of us name somebody who managed to live forever in the end?
(The verdict is still out on Keith Richards, let's admit that much.)

Further, if we admit that nobody lives forever, why exactly is it that we get sentimental and sad and out of sorts whenever our beloved family members and treasured rock stars pass and eventually release this mortal coil?

Is this a reflex action? (This expected mourning phase.)
Are we conditioned to be astounded by that which was expected all along?

Why do we feel the need to utter, "Oh my gosh, RIP, (insert name here)."?

We are ALL gonna die.
Why do we do this?

Is it out of simple respect for our heroes?
Or are we just on auto-pilot anymore?

😗

 

[Rabs]

I was gonna write a load of stuff... But on second thoughts, im not even gonna touch this one  🙂 

Its a huge question for which everyone has their own beliefs.. A lot of which we cant talk about on here anyway (thankfully 😄 ) 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Rabs

[jvi]

it is sad to lose something of value but  people are so  much more than just something...

it seems especially odd to me that folk who believe in an after life such as heaven dont celebrate a passing...

rip to everyone who has gone or will go....and thats everyone....

death sucks for the living....dont know how the dead feel about it tho....J

[kidblast]

The space they occupied is now empty, and no one is going to fill it.   It doesn't matter who that person was to rest the world, to the people who they have left behind, (kids, parents, spouse) they were their world.   That means something to everyone with a pulse.

 

 

[merciful-evans]

We are in denial about death. Mostly anyway. Some have had to confront their mortality head on, but most of us carry on as if we are going to live forever. 

[fortyearspickn]

10 hours ago, sparquelito said:

Further, if we admit that nobody lives forever, why exactly is it that we get sentimental and sad and out of sorts whenever our beloved family members and treasured rock stars pass and eventually release this mortal coil?

Sparky,  this seems to be the gist of your OP.     I think the reason you are confused is that you assume we 'get sentimental and sad'  at the same levels over John Denver (nice touch) and our Mothers, Fathers and children when they pass.     Anyone who mourns Charlie Watts in the same way as their own mother - has issues that are more significant than can be solved in a guitar forum. 

[fortyearspickn]

9 hours ago, jvi said:

it seems especially odd to me that folk who believe in an after life such as heaven dont celebrate a passing...

 

JVI,    I think you're walking on eggshells here.  You might wan't to consider attacking people's politics before you go after their religious beliefs.  

[jvi]

28 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

JVI,    I think you're walking on eggshells here.  You might wan't to consider attacking people's politics before you go after their religious beliefs.  

Forty I do NOT attack peoples politics OR religion. The part about the afterlife is something Ive  spent time thinking about my whole life,

You may want to try to understand a persons post and intent before you "advise".

[Hall]

2 hours ago, kidblast said:

The space they occupied is now empty, and no one is going to fill it.   It doesn't matter who that person was to rest the world, to the people who they have left behind, (kids, parents, spouse) they were their world.   That means something to everyone with a pulse.

 

 

Well put, kidblast.  Thank you.

[fortyearspickn]

26 minutes ago, jvi said:

Forty I do NOT attack peoples politics OR religion. The part about the afterlife is something Ive  spent time thinking about my whole life,

You may want to try to understand a persons post and intent before you "advise".

I'm just going on your words,  not trying to understand your 'intent'.    Specifically:      "people who believe in an after life"  and  "odd" .       

[kidblast]

56 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

JVI,    I think you're walking on eggshells here.  You might wan't to consider attacking people's politics before you go after their religious beliefs.  

Actually,  I don't think he was attacking anyone. 

Celebrating ones life, verses being consumed with grief at their passing I think is what he's getting at.

It's a hard thing to do, and at the time, it's just about impossible to not be overwhelmed with grieving. 

As a catholic..

I'm "supposed" to believe in resurrection.  That if you follow Christ, you'll have a place for you in the great beyond.   That's what we are taught from the moment we're old enough to understand.  

Believing that or not, makes it no easier to work through the hard reality that someone you loved, maybe more than your own life, has passed on.

The worse I think I've ever seen is when my 21 year old nephew was run down by a campus bus at UCONN.  My brother in-law has never quite been the same, and his wife, pretty much lost her mind that day, and she never really came out of it.   They are now divorced.  It was David's death that also killed their marriage. (It was not a great one from the start anyway)...

 

 

[jvi]

5 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

I'm just going on your words,  not trying to understand your 'intent'.    Specifically:      "people who believe in an after life"  and  "odd" .       

and you feel that was an attack ? it wasnt....

[fortyearspickn]

 

2 minutes ago, jvi said:

and you feel that was an attack ? it wasnt....

OK.  Good to know. 

 

[jvi]

9 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

 

OK.  Good to know. 

 

thank you , have a great day and I hope it may it be free of grief ....

[fortyearspickn]

9 minutes ago, kidblast said:

Actually,  I don't think he was attacking anyone. 

Celebrating ones life, verses being consumed with grief at their passing I think is what he's getting at.

It's a hard thing to do, and at the time, it's just about impossible to not be overwhelmed with grieving. 

As a catholic..

I'm "supposed" to believe in resurrection.  That if you follow Christ, you'll have a place for you in the great beyond.   That's what we are taught from the moment we're old enough to understand.  

Believing that or not, makes it no easier to work through the hard reality that someone you loved, maybe more than your own life, has passed on.

The worse I think I've ever seen is when my 21 year old nephew was run down by a campus bus at UCONN.  My brother in-law has never quite been the same, and his wife, pretty much lost her mind that day, and she never really came out of it.   They are now divorced.  It was David's death that also killed their marriage. (It was not a great one from the start anyway)...

 

 

KBlast,    I am very sorry to hear of the tragedy your brother in law and his wife experienced.   I have read, and believe, that the worst psychological harm a person can experience is the untimely death of their child.   And, because of that, when it happens - approximately one in four marriages don't last.   We don't realize how tenuous our hold on 'reality' is until we lose it.    Our next door neighbors had a similar experience - son the same age in college.  I think their faith kept them from going off the deep end.    And I worked with a young woman who lost her teenage sister -   I do not know how you deal with such a loss.   Or if I could.  

[badbluesplayer]

11 hours ago, jvi said:

it seems especially odd to me that folk who believe in an after life such as heaven dont celebrate a passing...

I'm not religious, but I believe they do celebrate.  They actually call it a celebration of life.  I've been to a few.

You just don't think it's a celebration 'cause you're not religious like them.  Double check my logic.  I've already been dead once, and I've been working on this stuff, lol.

[jvi]

2 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said:

I'm not religious, but I believe they do celebrate.  They actually call it a celebration of life.  I've been to a few.

You just don't think it's a celebration 'cause you're not religious like them.  Double check my logic.  I've already been dead once, and I've been working on this stuff, lol.

Havnt been to a celebration of life,,  just old style funerals . In the 60s I lost both grandparents, my mother, 3 aunts and uncles, and a grade 9 friend, ( funerals suck for young people)  then the 70s started and I lost a lot of my musical heros, the 80s  my dad. I have wondered ever scince why IM not happy for them if they are somewhere better .....

[jaxson50]

From the day we are born, we are preparing to die. It's as much a part of our human experience as birth is, and in both cases, it's something we only experience once.  We may witness the birth and death of others,  but we only experience both one time.

I have said goodbye to my parents,  siblings,  cousins, uncle's and aunts, many of my oldest acquaintances and friends and to my only child.  I do celibate the fact that I was blessed with each in my life.  I seldom talk about these losses, but I do occasionally speak of experiences I shared with some of those who passed through my life.

At age 11  I watched my grandfather die, I watched as my father tried to revive him,  it really was a turning point in my life journey.  Death is as much a part of life as life itself. 

[kidblast]

47 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

KBlast,    I am very sorry to hear of the tragedy your brother in law and his wife experienced.   I have read, and believe, that the worst psychological harm a person can experience is the untimely death of their child.   And, because of that, when it happens - approximately one in four marriages don't last.   We don't realize how tenuous our hold on 'reality' is until we lose it.    Our next door neighbors had a similar experience - son the same age in college.  I think their faith kept them from going off the deep end.    And I worked with a young woman who lost her teenage sister -   I do not know how you deal with such a loss.   Or if I could.  

Forty, I believe every word of what you have read on this.  I can't imagine how any one can deal with a tragic, sudden death like David's, but sadly this happens every single day.

21 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said:

I'm not religious, but I believe they do celebrate.  They actually call it a celebration of life.  I've been to a few.

You just don't think it's a celebration 'cause you're not religious like them.  Double check my logic.  I've already been dead once, and I've been working on this stuff, lol.

I have been to a few too, they are uplifting events and seem to help.  I don't like funerals,..  who the heck does?

12 minutes ago, jvi said:

Havnt been to a celebration of life,,  just old style funerals . In the 60s I lost both grandparents, my mother, 3 aunts and uncles, and a grade 9 friend, ( funerals suck for young people)  then the 70s started and I lost a lot of my musical heros, the 80s  my dad. I have wondered ever scince why IM not happy for them if they are somewhere better .....

Funerals are just sad events, you can't get around it.  It's how they are wired.  

[Whitefang]

I've been dealing with the passing of some loved ones over the last 22 years(Mom in '99,  my brother in '11,  wife just two 1/2 years ago, and her older sister just last May)  So in those cases it's easy to see why we mourn regardless of spiritual bent.  They were people we were close to, loved dearly and their deaths leave a hole in our existence.  And having endured those losses and their effect on me, I can understand the grief others might feel at a similar loss.  So I can then offer truly sincere condolences.   As for any of them being in a "better place" well, I have my own thoughts and beliefs in that regard,  so I'll not address them here for now.  But will digress a bit----

I don't care for people who give what I consider lame excuses for not visiting a sick and dying loved one, or eschews their funeral.   Like;  "Funerals make me sad" (really?  Sadder than the death of the person? ).  Or;  "I wanted to remember him( or her) they way he/she was."   Notice how both excuses start with "I" or contain "me".  But the fact is, the illness and the subsequent funeral wasn't about them!   And all the people I lost that I mentioned up there are always remembered by me.  AND, wouldn't you know....   always the way they were.  And at different points in their lives.   And this is true in both the cases of my Mother and wife.   I cared for and helped care for both of them up until  they died.  At their sickest and most debilitated.   And yet when I think of them, it's always the best times with them I recall.     OK......

Back to O topic:   As for the passing of our musical heroes or in the case of Watts, a member of a well loved or favorite band,  well in my case it's empathy for his family and friends and long time bandmates I feel.   I doubt I'll gnash any teeth over his passing,  but like the old online saying goes....   "Don't be sad that it's over, rather be happy that it happened."  (like:  be glad to have had the experience of Charlie Watts' existence).    

Whitefang

[Larsongs]

Question for the OP; Have you ever lost someone you loved & weren't affected or felt the pain of loss? 

[jdgm]

7 hours ago, kidblast said:

The space they occupied is now empty, and no one is going to fill it.   It doesn't matter who that person was to rest the world, to the people who they have left behind, (kids, parents, spouse) they were their world.   That means something to everyone with a pulse.

This sums it up IMO.

My younger brother was killed on his motorbike in the Spring of 1978; my Dad had passed away in Sept 1977.

My Mum never got over my brothers death.

It is a hard and unnatural thing to have to bury ones own child.

 

One of my half-sisters (fathers 1st marriage) died from several strokes in March this year.  I could not go to the funeral because of lockdown.   But there is going to be a celebration of her life at some point in the near future and I will be there. 

 

No-one lives forever which is a very good thing when you really consider it. 

And in the entire life and evolution of the Universe there is only ONE of you (as far as we know) unless perhaps you are an identical twin.

Best wishes to all.

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by jdgm

[kidblast]

1 hour ago, Whitefang said:

I've been dealing with the passing of some loved ones over the last 22 years(Mom in '99,  my brother in '11,  wife just two 1/2 years ago, and her older sister just last May)  So in those cases it's easy to see why we mourn regardless of spiritual bent.  They were people we were close to, loved dearly and their deaths leave a hole in our existence.  And having endured those losses and their effect on me, I can understand the grief others might feel at a similar loss.  So I can then offer truly sincere condolences.   As for any of them being in a "better place" well, I have my own thoughts and beliefs in that regard,  so I'll not address them here for now.  But will digress a bit----

I don't care for people who give what I consider lame excuses for not visiting a sick and dying loved one, or eschews their funeral.   Like;  "Funerals make me sad" (really?  Sadder than the death of the person? ).  Or;  "I wanted to remember him( or her) they way he/she was."   Notice how both excuses start with "I" or contain "me".  But the fact is, the illness and the subsequent funeral wasn't about them!   And all the people I lost that I mentioned up there are always remembered by me.  AND, wouldn't you know....   always the way they were.  And at different points in their lives.   And this is true in both the cases of my Mother and wife.   I cared for and helped care for both of them up until  they died.  At their sickest and most debilitated.   And yet when I think of them, it's always the best times with them I recall.     OK......

Back to O topic:   As for the passing of our musical heroes or in the case of Watts, a member of a well loved or favorite band,  well in my case it's empathy for his family and friends and long time bandmates I feel.   I doubt I'll gnash any teeth over his passing,  but like the old online saying goes....   "Don't be sad that it's over, rather be happy that it happened."  (like:  be glad to have had the experience of Charlie Watts' existence).    

Whitefang

well said brutha..  I do remember when you told us that had lost your wife,  I'm sorry for that still.  I can't imagine.  

[Rabs]

I have seen a celebration of life at an old school funeral.. It is possible...

A bit of a story.. My ex wife is South African..  Went over there when her mum died..  The night before I was with her family and her father brought out this suitcase full of pictures of his wife..  Hundreds of them..  It turns out he was a pretty closed man when it came to his emotions (just an old school guy) and it was the first time my ex had heard these stories her father was telling about her mum..

Anyway, my ex's brother is an artist and got an idea.. That night he went to the church and set up boards all around the room filled with these pictures of his mum.. Almost literally wall to wall.

After the service we all went in to this room to have some food and stuff and because of the pictures on the wall EVERY person in there was reminiscing and laughing. I have never quite seen anything like it.. In the end it did become a total celebration of her life.

Of course even with that, it still doesnt change that afterwards, when her father went home, he went home to an empty bed..  As mentioned above. It leaves a hole in your life that no one else can really fill. That takes time to get used too.. I am not sure you ever get over it, you just learn to live with it...

And this is all only about people  close to you who are part of your life. When I see someone like Charlie Watts pass, its a bit sad but is nothing like what I described above..  He was 80 and had a great life and we all do gotta go some day (until we learn how to move human consciousness into a robot and then we can live forever 😄 ).

Edited August 25, 2021 by Rabs

[Rabs]

Also one other thing the OP doesn't talk abut..  

This mass hysteria....  Its a modern day internet thing mostly... Fuelled by social media..  People just seem to want to join in with this sort of thing, gives them something to do and talk about other than posting pictures of what they had for dinner or their cat..

You are either in to that stuff or you aren't..  This is a forum. It gives us something to talk about, it doesn't mean we are all grief stricken.. Its just people sharing what they think about everything and anything. 

Personally I am not in to it at all.. This and one other guitar forum the my limit for social media in my life.

Ignore it if you aren't interested, thats what I say.