Gibson RMA experience

[gossmanster]

I want to document my experience with the Hummingbird I bought last year just so that others (including Gibson and Guitar Center) can hopefully learn from and have a better experience in the future. I must preface the story with a couple of points: everyone I talked to at Gibson and Guitar Center was friendly, professional, knowledgeable and tried to help; also I acknowledge the events here happened during the pandemic with the well-known problems of work and supply chain disruptions.

In November 2020, having not been able to visit an in-person guitar store in months, I found myself GASing for a Gibson Hummingbird, in particular a red one (red and blue being my favorite guitar colors). I don’t like to buy a guitar without putting hands on as I have many times found that a guitar that looked good on the internet, did not match my preferences for playability or sound. But by coincidence right at this time one of the Guitar Centers in the area listed a new Hummingbird Standard in Vintage Cherry Burst. I realized that if I didn’t like something about the guitar, I could take advantage of Guitar Center’s generous 45-day return policy. I called the store and arranged to come in-person for pickup. The staff were helpful and friendly and when we opened the case to look at it, we all practically gasped at what a good-looking instrument it was.

When I got home, things were even better: the guitar sounded wonderful, better than I expected, and was extremely playable. Being slightly OCD, I checked the relief and measured the action, and the setup seemed perfect: 5/64 on the low E and 3/64 on the high E. My daily driver is a Taylor 812 12-fret, which is the easiest guitar to play I’ve ever had, and this Hummingbird was not far behind.

It also was stunning to look at. I know not everyone likes the bright red, and even I find the pickguard a little eccentric, but I loved the color and it was cheerful in the winter of the pandemic. 

I started raving to my friends about the guitar and it became my go-to instrument. In the spring, I started to notice some buzzing, but I really didn’t see a problem until a friend of mine visited and commented the action was low. When he left, I re-measured and found that not only had the action dropped, but playing the high strings in the 7^th to 9^th frets were buzzing and even choking out. I assumed it needed a truss rod adjustment and took it to my local luthier (the highly respected Mike Lull Guitarworks for people who are familiar with them).

When the guys at Lull inspected the guitar, their immediate reaction was literally “Wow!”. The neck angle was much too high, and they asked if the guitar could still be returned. I was told that a truss rod adjustment would straighten the neck, but because of the angle the only way to normal relief was to raise the already high bridge and even then I was likely to have intonation problems and uneven action. Frankly, I was kinda gutted at this point. I was well outside GC’s return window, though I still had the Gibson Warranty.

When I reached out to Guitar Center, the salesman was gone, but the asst manager was very helpful. He asked to inspect the guitar himself and agreed with Lull that the issue was beyond a simple adjustment, and offered to ship the guitar to Gibson once I got an RMA. I called Gibson support and got a very helpful gentleman who understood the issue and issued an RMA number. Early in April with great sadness, I shipped off the guitar. This was the only real bad part of the experience: I really wish the original guitar was still with me. Beyond here things merely are annoying.

I was told it would take as much as 10 days for them to evaluate the guitar. After 3 weeks, I had heard nothing from Gibson, so I called and was told the guitar “had been sent back to the bench for inspection” and they would e-mail when they got results. After a few more weeks, I started calling. Over the next 2 months, I called every week, and every week the status was the same. I talked to several different gentlemen, all polite and helpful, and was told by one that I was best off just calling them every week rather than waiting for them to call. In fact, in the ensuing 5 months, I have never received a phone call, text, or e-mail from Gibson despite repeated promises they would get back to me.  

In late June, the status was finally updated to “replacement ordered” and I was frankly told they were very far behind because of increased demand and the difficulty of working in the factory under covid safety restrictions. I said I understood and continued to wait. At the end of July, I left for a long roadtrip through the national parks. Before I left, I called talked to the same gentleman I originally got the RMA from and we arranged that Gibson would NOT ship me a replacement guitar until I returned from the trip. He promised me he had put notes in the system and would personally call me and arrange things before shipment occurred.

Early in the trip, I was staying in a remote lodge with no internet or cell coverage. During a drive when we briefly had cell, my wife got a text from UPS saying they had attempted to deliver a package from Gibson. We drove to a nearby town and called friends and were able to arrange for someone to be at the house the next day. I did not get any notice from Gibson that they were sending anything. I find this to be very unusual, as I got shipping notifications with tracking numbers even from the smallest vendors I buy from. I wasn’t very happy about this, because not only was I not there to receive shipment, the guitar arrived on one of the hottest days of the year, and I didn’t like the idea of it bouncing around a hot truck for several days.

When I got back from my trip, I eagerly tore open the box. The new guitar and case are unblemished. The setup is again perfect and the guitar is very well made. It sounds great and plays great. However, it is the Heritage Cherry Burst, rather than the Vintage Cherry Burst, which means that rather than the red I was so happy with, it is a dull orange. I know the color names aren’t much different, but if you’ve seen pictures, in real life they are completely, very, extremely different. Vintage is a deep, almost wine or dark rose red, and Heritage is well...orange.

Sound and playability rate higher than appearance for me, but OTOH, I wanted a red guitar and would not have bought this color combination. I realize this is a pretty minor complaint all things considered.

I’m not completely happy, but the end result is at least not bad. The worst of it by far was that the original guitar turned out flawed and needed to be replaced. I really loved that guitar. Gibson employees were nice and helpful, but the communications were terrible. In retrospect, I should have made Guitar Center handle the entire RMA process, or given the high staff turnover at GC (none of the people I worked with are still there), next time I buy a Gibson I would work with a more hands-on, experienced dealer.

[rct]

I'm sorry that happened.  For that kind of money you should have the color you had replaced without thought.  You bought the guitar in the first place for a reason, a guitar company like Gibson should maintain an awareness of how guitar players operate, and the color is a part of that.  I would return it and get fully refunded and spend that money on a Martin, maybe a Taylor for you.  It's the only way this kind of crap will ever get to them, it's the only way to change how a company fundamentally operates.  If enough high dollar buyers do that and tell them why it is possible they will put it to good use in the company. 

I'm sick of covid excuses, supply chain problems, labor blah blah blah.  And I'd tell them that while getting my money back.

rct

[thegreatgumbino]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  I went through a similarly frustrating situation, but Gibson took care of me and then some.  I have to believe they will make things right.  You don't mention when you finally took receipt of the guitar or if you reached out to your contact at Gibson who handled your RMA.  Did you give them a chance to make it right?

[fortyearspickn]

Unless you documented in writing on the RMA that a replacement had to be the same exact shade of red,  or the same model/color  - they probably have a 'policy' that allows them the flexibility to provide you with something 'equal to  or  greater than'.     Many folks have to wait several months for  'standard production models'   during The Lockdowns.   I would guess a 'one off'   would take as long.    If you put it right back in the case and it is still  "mint"  and only a couple of days in your possession ...    I would call the guy you've been dealing with at Gibson (who promised not to have it delivered while you were out of town)  and ask him to work with you to get an exact replacement.    Might be a Nashville VS Bozeman snafu.  G'Luck.  

[gossmanster]

gumbino, did you work with a dealer or directly with Gibson on your issue? I only got home Friday before the Labor Day weekend and have not called them yet. Part of posting here is to figure out my chances of getting more than further frustration from calling. 

Do Gibson employees read/reply to anything in these forums? 

[thegreatgumbino]

52 minutes ago, gossmanster said:

gumbino, did you work with a dealer or directly with Gibson on your issue? I only got home Friday before the Labor Day weekend and have not called them yet. Part of posting here is to figure out my chances of getting more than further frustration from calling. 

Do Gibson employees read/reply to anything in these forums? 

I worked with both my local repair shop / dealer and Gibson Montana on my issue.   More info about my experience is available here:

 

 As far as I know, Gibson employees don't typically read/reply on the forum.  Many years ago I recall there being one that did.

Give them a call tomorrow, speak with your point of contact, express your concerns and draw to the red finish.  Give them the chance to make it right.  Hope it all works out for you.

[gossmanster]

26 minutes ago, thegreatgumbino said:

I worked with both my local repair shop / dealer and Gibson Montana on my issue.   More info about my experience is available here:

Thanks for the information and inspiring story. Ultimately, this is one of my root problems: because GC had a guitar in stock in the middle of the pandemic, I bought it from them, and the entire staff has turned over there. I have never been able to get through to Gibson Montana, and gather the support folks in Nashville have a hard time communicating with them too (ironically, I was in Bozeman 2 days before they dropped the guitar to me...). I'm kinda mad at myself, because I resisted both GC and Gibson over the years because of their reputation for poor service, and then walked right into this situation. Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes.

[rct]

Just now, gossmanster said:

Thanks for the information and inspiring story. Ultimately, this is one of my root problems: because GC had a guitar in stock in the middle of the pandemic, I bought it from them, and the entire staff has turned over there. I have never been able to get through to Gibson Montana, and gather the support folks in Nashville have a hard time communicating with them too (ironically, I was in Bozeman 2 days before they dropped the guitar to me...). I'm kinda mad at myself, because I resisted both GC and Gibson over the years because of their reputation for poor service, and then walked right into this situation. Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes.

I get what you are saying.  But it is not us the guitar consumers that need to learn from this.

rct

[bobouz]

I’ve purchased quite a few new Gibsons (acoustic & electric).  The one time I needed to use the warranty (five years after purchase), it was determined that the guitar would need to be replaced, and I was given a choice of any equivalent model in current production.  You may be facing a similar scenario, but I would ask if Nashville CS can connect you to someone in Bozeman who might be able to hand pick a guitar for you, send you photos, and discuss build/spec specifics.

Your return & refund option with GC is effectively gone.  Continue working with Gibson, and hopefully you’ll end up with a keeper.  As for Covid, it remains a valid factor in all of this, as everyone has been hammered by staff shortages & turnover problems, which can lead to the ball being dropped over & over again.  Best bet, imho, is to find one good contact person in Bozeman if Gibson’s structure will allow you to deal directly with them - I know people have in the past, but these are very unusual times & many things are not as they were.  Best of luck to you in getting it sorted out.

[fortyearspickn]

OP:   "Do Gibson employees read/reply to anything in these forums?"

As the GreatGumbino stated - No.   If they were to, it would open up the proverbial Chinese Fire Drill: There are many who come here to complain about issues that are not covered by their warranty.  Glue drops inside,  unusual wood grain, etc.  I doubt there are many companies that try to piggy back using a social media forum to address customer service / warranty questions. The first stop is usually the dealer.    The next stop is Gibson's Customer Service, which is where you're at.    As I wrote earlier, given your unique situation,  you might be best served if you get in touch again with  the person who was working with you and point out the importance of color as it pertains to your decision to originally purchase the guitar you did.   They apparently did not understand that was a 'deal breaker' and thought a close shade of red would pass the sniff test.    I believe Bozeman is a smaller, hands on production site, compared to what you would find Martin and Taylor have.   And getting the specific shade of red you had would probably introduce the need to insert a 'one-off'  or 'custom build'  in the middle of Bozeman's  scheduled production runs.  Which also include 'custom shop'  and "limited run"  shots of around 50 for their Five Star Dealers.      They could not stay in business if they had to disrupt the efficiency of their production line to insert replacements that had special specs.   Point being,  a new replacement  would take time, and you've already been inconvenienced for a long time.   That is why, I'm guessing that - as I wrote - if the color is not guaranteed in a replacement - you may be SOL.    Possibly you can get Guitar Center to take your brand new 'mint' H'Bird  for a full credit and, as RCT suggested, if you purchase  a Martin or a Taylor  from them in the shade of red you had in your H'BIrd. 

[gossmanster]

33 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

OP:   "Do Gibson employees read/reply to anything in these forums?"

As the GreatGumbino stated - No.   If they were to, it would open up the proverbial Chinese Fire Drill: There are many who come here to complain about issues that are not covered by their warranty. 

 

 They apparently did not understand that was a 'deal breaker' and thought a close shade of red would pass the sniff test.    I believe Bozeman is a smaller, hands on production site, compared to what you would find Martin and Taylor have.   

1) 1000s of other companies at least have their support staff read the forums on their own website. A community manager is far cheaper than running bespoke phone support. 

2) It is not a custom red nor did they substitute with a "close shade of red". The original was the Cherry Burst they have been making the Hummingbird in since 1960, and the substitute is orange.  In either case, rather than guessing, they could have called, e-mailed, or texted me, which would have made especial sense given the fact that I made specific arrangements that they would call me before shipping a guitar when I was out of town.

[gossmanster]

Just an update. Gibson is "checking with Bozeman" on options. 

Original color

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HI_IYCVbgggBB1mlsaqoznXGF8DKGTU3/view

Replacement color

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R0mtcNeBZXUq_UOmDj0mnMIgC26vNDTK/view

[Paul14]

1 hour ago, gossmanster said:

Just an update. Gibson is "checking with Bozeman" on options. 

Original color

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HI_IYCVbgggBB1mlsaqoznXGF8DKGTU3/view

Replacement color

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R0mtcNeBZXUq_UOmDj0mnMIgC26vNDTK/view

These require,,,,log in,,,,,then it says request access? Would like to see the photos but……

[Paul14]

I have found the Nashville help line to be useless. If I need any info I call Montana.

[gossmanster]

Sorry. These should be shareable:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HI_IYCVbgggBB1mlsaqoznXGF8DKGTU3/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R0mtcNeBZXUq_UOmDj0mnMIgC26vNDTK/view?usp=sharing

[gossmanster]

Backs are even more dramatically different:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18wlyzN_rB_In1I0fcU3msweUE2qjKI-f/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f1tpK7NXo7tPzRTcJlIwFZ9PRZjncM7-/view?usp=sharing

 

And yes, that is a John Walker Ruby in the background

[rct]

I'd call that a god dam shame if they'd let me.  I wouldn't buy the orange one and I'd tell them that.  Can't help but think the worst, they are unloading one they know won't sell.

rct

[Paul14]

19 minutes ago, rct said:

I'd call that a god dam shame if they'd let me.  I wouldn't buy the orange one and I'd tell them that.  Can't help but think the worst, they are unloading one they know won't sell.

rct

Yep.  The "Levi guy" appears to have lost control. 

[BoSoxBiker]

When I went through my RMA, the most consistent source of frustration was the horrible response time. It was downright maddening. It masked what was an otherwise positive scenario. A win for any company that wants to be known for taking care of their customers that spend thousands at a clip. I dread the day I ever have to contact them again for any reason at all. To that end, I guess maybe the plan is working.

Anyhow, gossmanster, I hope they are able to get your color situation worked out. I'm with you on that one. If they cannot, perhaps someone out there has a gently used one that would like to trade with you. Some prefer that orangeish color.

[Dave F]

Last time I had an RMA I was constantly updated via CME. They took care of everything. Even sent me the shipping label. No issues. 

[fortyearspickn]

Never having had an RMA ...   what's a CME ?  

[thegreatgumbino]

51 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

Never having had an RMA ...   what's a CME ?  

Chicago Music Exchange.  He most likely purchased through CME and had them handle the RMA for him.

[Dave F]

Chicago Music Exchange

Return Merchandise Authorization

The big 5 star dealers have more continuity with their employees and the owners are usually hands on and they have daily/weekly contact with the Gibson people  and can get things done  

 

[BoSoxBiker]

Dave F - Was this a guitar you had for over a couple months, or was this a recent purchase?

[Dave F]

39 minutes ago, BoSoxBiker said:

Dave F - Was this a guitar you had for over a couple months, or was this a recent purchase?

It was one that I received and immediately wanted to return. Gibson fixed the issue I had with it and I was satisfied. Turned it around in about 6 weeks. 
Another one I had was from a smaller local store. The experience was not as good. Had a J200 with issues. Contacted the store with whom I had done a lot of business, they didn’t offer much assistance. The guitar was fixed and returned but within a year the problem returned. On my own, I contacted Gibson Montana, got a RMA and shipped it. This time they replaced it. Needless to say, I don’t buy much from that store anymore. 
I’ve had my best luck with CME, Bailey Brothers, The Music Outlet, and Rainbow guitars. I’ve tried dealing with Wildwood, Sweetwater and Music Villa but they just don’t budge much on their pricing for me and the service I get from the others is excellent.