Eras to avoid?

[dallasblues]

Okay… AvoId isn’t the right word. Perhaps, I meant to say… Are there particular eras in which a closer examination of an instrument might be needed? 

Did the acoustic guitars from Gibson fall from grace during the Norlin years like their electric brethren did?  Are there things to look out for when considering an instrument made during that time period? What are some things you like about these guitars? Things you don’t like?

And finally… Do you think these are as good, better or inferior to the guitars made in Bozeman these days? 
 

Thanks!

 

[E-minor7]

To avoid throwing the worn kliché into the ring, let instead try : Depends on what you're after.

If you want a more bastant and focused acoustic expression that doesn't seem over-loose and at the edge of aged-boomy, but still like the old sound, a Norlin guitar could serve you very well.        I have tried some nicely broken in acoustics from that era - the 1970s - that impressed a lot. They weren't offering that clazzic vintage Gibson thing so many of us treasure so dearly, but they worked in their own right and still tasted of Gibson, no doubt.   
The heavier construction that Norlin represents - 2 thick X's under the hood - was actually started as early as 1968. There the first fat braces were introduced, but the X stayed single for a couple of years. Then the fortified, stiff, strange ones, which some people claim are full-of-socks, took off in 1970 and rolled for approx 15 years. So heavy they were, that the proud acoustic Gibson ship came close to sinking. A drama then before our very ears and eyes. Due to luck, vision, skills and brains that didn't happen - what a blessing, , ,                                                                                                                                                                                                       , , , , for the individual player as for the entire planet. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by E-minor7

[Boyd]

My son in law is in his late 30's. He's had my 1974 J-50 Deluxe on permanent loan for the past 5 or 6 years now. Whenever they would come visit, it was the first guitar he would pick up - he liked it better than my 1965 and 2008 J-50's. I told him about the complaints people have raised about the Norlin guitars and he thought that was very funny. 😁 

A few years earlier, I had some major repairs done to that guitar which had gradually become un-playable. The luthier was able to avoid a neck reset by planing the fretboard and doing a re-fret, he also fixed some cracks. When it was ready to pick up, I asked the luthier if he had any problems fixing it. He said the only "problem" was that he enjoyed playing it so much, he didn't want to give it back. He just shook his head when I mentioned the complaints about 70's Gibsons. He did a great job on it,  I think it sounded much better than it did when I bought it in 1974.

Personally, I still like it but it's not all that special for me, which is why I was willing to part with it. But some people do just like that sound. For one thing, it is really LOUD - much louder than my other Gibsons. But "loud" doesn't necessarily mean "good"... I'd say it doesn't have some of the subtlety of my other Gibsons. So, I'd suggest that you just play any guitars you can find and make your own decisions instead of relying on what other people tell you.

[fortyearspickn]

You will, of course, get anecdotal responses to your era query.  But from what I've absorbed over the years - during the period from the late 60s to the early 80s  -  many acoustic makers were not at their best.  I guess like wine, there are good vintages and not so good.  But if I found one I liked from that period - I'd want to follow the adage 'Play Before You Pay'.     Further, many here who are cork sniffers have concluded that Bozeman guitars produced during the Ren Ferguson years were/are very good.   I am a not a cork sniffer, more of a pop top popper. So, take my input with a grain of Beer Salt.   

Edited September 17, 2021 by fortyearspickn

[zombywoof]

1971 was the first year I actually was making enough money to lay out $300 to $350 on a brand spanking new guitar.   So I went out looking at Gibsons.  Every shopping trip ended with me coming home empty handed.  It was not a matter of good or bad but different.  I had spent enough time with 1950s Gibsons ("used" guitars were all I could afford) to know what I liked about them.  I just did not hear that in the new ones.  Had I been unwashed when it came to Gibsons who knows.  I might have jumped on a new one.  But if I was inclined to buy a 1970s Gibson today the only contender for me would probably be a Gospel.  That laminate arched back did make a difference.

Gibsons problems though really began in 1965 when their parent company CMI came under the control of a college educated bean counter rather than somebody who knew to leave the business of building guitars to those who knew what they were doing.  Gibson  became  obsessed with solving engineering problems which more often as not meant doing away with potential warranty issues regardless of their impact on sound.  The result was guitars starting to be more heavily braced in 1968.  This trend continued until 1971 when it culminated in the now infamous Norlin Double X bracing.  

[RBSinTo]

Many say Gibsons from the Holocene Era are suspect and should be avoided.

RBSinTo

[jvi]

hadnt heard of the Holocene Era till now so good one ! ( I wonder how  the pre-Holocene gits sound and play  ? )

[RBSinTo]

jvi,

During the Pleistocene (which immediatley preceded the Holocene) Gibson was only making wood and bone Atlatls and Clubs, but no guitars, as strings had not yet been invented.

RBSinTo

[jvi]

Education starts here ! 

 

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

During the Pleistocene (which immediatley preceded the Holocene) Gibson was only making wood and bone Atlatls and Clubs, but no guitars, as strings had not yet been invented.

Aha, , , thought strings made their entrance extremely early - and that they almost gave themselves every time a prey was taken down.  

[jt]

My first Gibson acoustic was a Norlin-era Hummingbird. I loved that guitar because it was so much cooler than my first guitar, a Korean imitation of a Japanese copy of a Martin D-28. Sheesh, the Gibson had a red sunburst. What else could an 18 year old guitar player want in 1973?

Well, a decent tone and proper intonation. Plus, it's still the only acoustic guitar that I've encountered that could serve as a boat anchor.

Folks here have been diplomatic, and I thank them for that. But, well, Norlin-era Gibson acoustics are horrible. Yes, other Guitar makers suffered during that same time. But no other acoustic guitar manufacturer produced guitars even close to as bad as Gibson Norlin-era acoustics.

That's my opinion. To steal words from Chet Atkins (I've done my best to steal his guitar licks, but to no avail), and I think that it should be yours, too. 🙂

[jvi]

budget plays into the question, if your rich Id say avoid acoustics made  after 1949 and electrics made after 1960

with a budget , try all you can  of  all years and buy the one that calls to you.

[fortyearspickn]

The Elephant in the Room !    Yes.  We often forget that BUDGET is a key driver.   When folks say ' Epiphones sound better...',   they usually mean is  'given what I'm able or willing to pay....'  

Some of us are lucky enough to afford one Gibson.  Some of us took a few decades, maybe after getting the kids out of the house, to have enough 'disposable income'.    Some of us are 'risk adverse'  and would rather buy  a new Bozeman With Warranty  than a 80 year old Kalamazoo with unknown possible issues.       The extent of my risk taking these days is getting out of bed in the morning.  So, if budget is only a mini-driver, I'd get a brand, spanking new one.  

[vw1300]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:42 AM, E-minor7 said:

I have tried some nicely broken in acoustics from that era - the 1970s - that impressed a lot. They weren't offering that clazzic vintage Gibson thing so many of us treasure so dearly, but they worked in their own right and still tasted of Gibson, no doubt.   
 

A few years ago I played a '72 SJ at Elderly.  I didn't expect to like it but I did - I think the above sums it up nicely for that guitar.

 

[Rich H.]

All I remember about the Norlin era guitars was that you could tell the era by the binding all began to chip and break along the edges. I never owned any of the Norlins so I can't say how they sounded, or played My first Gibson was a 1964 J-45, and after that it was a 1990 Dove manufactured out of the Bozeman facility. I've been owning and playing the Bozeman  guitars ever since. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Rich H.