need help identifying a 335 year of manufacture - is it a 67?

[tremelo68]

I have a 335 purported to be a 1967. It has a mahogany neck, narrow nut, the proper open b and o in the logo, a Union Made logo, proper head stock angle. However, it has 1979 pickups and the pots date to 1976. It was refinished in black at some point the and re-finisher covered the serial number. The label does not show the serial or model either, as the penciling has faded. The serial is supposed to be 006176 and you can see the faint outlines of 006 in the paint. Any opinions on it being a real 1967? My understanding is that the 70s guitars had maple necks. I think someone swapped out the pickups at some point, unfortunately. I did my best trying to photograph the label.

 

thanks

scott

[Twang Gang]

Dating Gibson guitars from their serial numbers is a crap shoot at best.  Numbers were duplicated and don't always make sense.  Serial does seem to be imprinted on the back of the headstock so maybe some paint thinner on there to remove the black paint would reveal the complete number.  But as mentioned that isn't necessarily going to verify it's date.  Pickups and pots can always be changed so they aren't real reliable either.  I played with a fellow for several years that bought a 335 new in '69 or '70 and it had a mahogany neck.  Never heard that 70s models had maple necks?  The bridge looks a little strange?  Not the usual stop bar.  From the tuners, pickups and pots I'd guess it's more likely a 70s model than from the 60s.

[tremelo68]

Thanks for your reply.

The stopbar was a mod from the trapeze, according to the original owner and looks it. It does not look factory, but professionally done. The bridge is also a mod from the original, I believe, and those bridges also came out in the 70s. The laminated maple necks started in the 70s.

Hopefully someone else will have some insight on this particular guitar based on the specs and pictures

.

[Grog]

I have a ‘67 ES-335.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/0BeEbcp.jpg[/img]

The harmonica bridge on yours screams 70’s. Also it shouldn’t have a stop tailpiece. They came with a trapeze tailpiece or like mine a Bigsby.

[JO'C]

Hello tremolo68,

I have a '69 ES-335TD. The front of your headstock looks the same. The logo font was used from '66-69. The serial# you give is in the '67 range if it's really the guitar's serial#. Grover tuning pegs were not std issue in '67 but lots of folks changed out the stock Klusons back then because of intonation issues. 70's ES-335's would not have the narrow nut and there would be a volute on the back of the headstock. Also the orange sticker in the f-hole would rule out a 70's body. My guess is that it is a '67 that had the pots, pickups, bridge, trapeze and tuners swapped out, maybe when it was refinished. So how much of a '67 is it still? 

[tremelo68]

Thanks, JO'C. I appreciate the input.

Those were my thoughts as well. Also talked to a very knowledgeable dealer and he felt the same. The volute is a big indicator it isn't a 70s. It looks to be a 66-69. He suggested I try to remove the finish on the back of the headstock to get a look at the serial. Since it is a refin already, I'm not really harming the value.

As for how much of 67 is it still, I'd say the wood is still there and that is a major part of the tone. Wish it still had 67 pickups in it, but I can search for those if I feel the need and save up for a while. Or I might throw some low wind Imperials I have laying around in there and see if they sound better than the 79 T tops. I also will search for a nylon saddle TOM bridge for more authentic tone. It sounds pretty good as is and feels good. The finish is a decent refin, as far as that goes, though they lost all the aging on the binding and inlays.

[JO'C]

If you can determine that 006176 is the actual serial# you can be sure it's a '67. While it's true that Gibson serial#'s were all over the place in the '60's, the ones starting with 00.... were only used in '67 according to my go to source, Gibson Electric Serialization from the 11th Edition Blue Book of Electric Guitars. Your back of the headstock pic seems to show two zeros. If that is the case you don't even need the rest os the number to be sure it's a '67. For my 335, the serial# could have been from '66 or '69. I thought it was a '66 but someone else told me they thought it was a '69. I had to pull a pot to get the date code and the pot dated to late '68, making mine a '69. A head's up on nylon saddle bridge; I do a lot of string bending in my lead playing and the nylon saddles are an issue at times. If I bend too much a string will pop right out of the saddle which isn't a big deal as long as you're not in the middle of a song. I've never had this happen with metal saddles. 70's T-tops are fine pickups. Actual 60's pickups will be very expensive and will likely not change your tone all that much to justify the cost. If you do want the correct pickups they should Patent No. black stickers on the back, not stamped Pat No. I had a 2008 Custom Shop Larry Carlton ES-335 when I got my '69. The Custom Shop model is a reissue of Larry's '68 which he modded to a stop tail. It's amazing how much alike the 2 guitars are. Same neck profile and weight and when plugged into a tube amp the tones were nearly the same. The 2008 has 57 Classic pickups.