New Generation Collection

[fortyearspickn]

When the student is ready - the teacher will appear !    Yep.  That was my relationship with mine.  Sort of the guitar version of "My First Love",   I've never 'bonded'  with another guitar in the same way.   Thanks for the memory! 

[62burst]

40 minutes ago, AnneS said:

. . . dad brought home a new ‘64 LG-1. . .

____________    ________________  ______________

. . . Me, I fell in love with it at first sight, and during the 50+ years I played it, I sometimes referred to it as a teacher guitar, because I was the only student in that relationship.

Great story, Anne. 50 years of going thru life with that guitar. Many of us who have old guitars can only imagine the songs that once came out of them, or the news on the radio playing in the same room that the guitar was in- what the soundhole heard. 

How lucky to have that connection. . . I'm sure the two of you sound pretty good together by now.

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said:

I didn't say Gibson touted their LG1 as a student guitar.   I'm sure they didn't -  being one of the premier guitar producers, their brand would have suffered if they had.     I was referring to the dozens of comments I've read - many of them  here,  over the years making that claim.   My first guitar was a  Stella which was around $25.  My first good guitar was an LG1 in '64 which was around $130.   That was the basis of my stating it was around 5x more expensive.   And, the actual point of my comment was that the  New Generation line is not 'entry level'.   

At one time a student guitar was generally defined by a smaller size and similar smaller price tag.  An entry level guitar was all about the price tag.     

But yeah price is generally responsive to a connection between the builder and "quality".    Guild used to market their D25 which was their lowest priced dread as teacher recommended but  a "Guild all the way."  But the other thing to consider is while you paid $130 for a LG1 in '64 a top of the line Silvertone 633 (a Harmony Sovereign H1260 with a brownburst) would run you $55.   

[jricc]

Sal, your video, that looks like a great time, yes music is meant to be shared.  Love it!

Edited September 25, 2021 by jricc

[62burst]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:51 PM, jricc said:

 

I did receive my G-00 today and will be gigging it tonight with a Dearmond Tone Boss (thanks Sal).  I've played it a bit today. 

Some of my first impressions: 

It's a Gibson!  Solid build and clean as all get out, not a drop of glue anywhere (you can really see a lot through the port) the  neck joint is solid, nice ebony board and bridge, this little guy rings out.  The satin nitro is thin as paper and probably why the guitar rings and is so loud.  Thick mids, bright trebles and some bass, though not a lot.  i wonder if the port has taken away some of the bass, or if the mids and highs overwhelm it.  That said,  when I play it up against a wall, you can hear more bass.  I'm not sure if I love the port, still too new (to me)  I 've never had a guitar with one before, but either way, not a deal breaker.  

joe

How did the gig go, Joe? 

And. . .  since you wonder if the sound port might be taking away some bass from the 00 (which is already known to not exactly be a bass monster), have you tried to cover it with one hand while playing, to see if that is indeed the case?

19 hours ago, jricc said:

Sal, your video, that looks like a great time, yes music is meant to be shared.  Love it!

Exacto. Glad to see Sal has jumped back on that horse to ride after a guitar-breaking gig from hell.

[62burst]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, PickitPaul said:

  Looking inside . . .  the kerfling is solid, not ribbed.   Wonder why this is?   How does it differ with side thickness from regular L00 or other models?

It does beg the question: is the wood on the sides ("rim") the same as the thickness on a non-sound port guitar?

A pic of the G-200 kerfing:

[zombywoof]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, PickitPaul said:

After having a look at pics on Gibson webpage on these I noticed the sound port is surrounded by black plastic / rubber?  Would have looked nicer left plain wood.  Looking inside i see that the kerfling is solid, not ribbed.   Wonder why this is?   How does it differ with side thickness from regular L00 or other models?

Neck profile is like a low oval shape or flatter than what i'm used to.

Oh well, i am old school.  Guess i'll be keeping my trusty WM45.

It looks like Gibson is using a  reverse kerfing in these models rather than the traditional triangular lining.  This style of lining adds stiffness.  This combined with the plastic rim around the sound port may be Gibson's way of strengthening the sides.  Normally with sound ports you will see something like a laminate patch used to ensure structural stability.

By the way how many tone bars does your WM45 have?  Only reason I am asking is I owned a WM-00 and it only had one tone bar.  Definitely a WTF moment.     Apparently though the WM45 is the only one of the four models in that line Bozeman made in any kind of numbers.  I have yet to actually see a WM-185 in the flesh. 

[62burst]

28 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

. . . By the way how many tone bars does your WM45 have?  Only reason I am asking is I owned a WM-00 and it only had one tone bar.  Definitely a WTF moment.     Apparently though the WM45 is the only one of the four models in that line Bozeman made in any kind of numbers.  I have yet to actually see a WM-185 in the flesh. 

Here's a pic of my WM-45. . .  the earlier, satin nitro/matte-finished run. (my, what a large-ish bridge plate you have, but I love you anyway):

Also- yes, the WM-185 does seem to be the Gibson acoustic unicorn. Failing coming across one of those, these WM-00 still hold some interest. Almost enough to roll the dice on another Japan eBay offering (crapped out once on the poorly described '185 TV). Does that look like a side crack on the lower bout?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185061355614?hash=item2b1684305e:g:8AYAAOSwphthSJMa

[62burst]

. . . But back to the Generation series- although the link in the OP is now showing a Safari security warning, a photo from that line is showing some serious break angle and tall saddle. Remembering the issue Gossmanster had with his new Hummingbird, and how a slightly overset neck with low action combined with a neck angle that changed in a matter of months, one might want to approach this Generation guitar with eyes wide open:

 

[Dave F]

Personally I prefer a neck be a little overset. It allows me to obtain the low action I like and keeps the strings above the soundboard and keeps the saddle at a decent height. The NL I have is slightly overset and I like it. 
As far as beginner guitars being the teacher, here’s the Kay my mom got me back in ‘64. 

 

 

[jricc]

8 hours ago, 62burst said:

How did the gig go, Joe? 

And. . .  since you wonder if the sound port might be taking away some bass from the 00 (which is already known to not exactly be a bass monster), have you tried to cover it with one hand while playing, to see if that is indeed the case?

Exacto. Glad to see Sal has jumped back on that horse to ride after a guitar-breaking gig from hell.

Hey 62burst, I should try covering the port, will try that. 

Re: the gig, I used a Dearmond ToneBoss mag for 2 sets and a Baggs M1A for 1 set. The Baggs was a little bit better, but Ive been using that for awhile and I didn't spend as much time dialing in the Dearmond. I was playing a small pub maybe 150 people with my Bose S1 3 feet to my left up on a pole.

As I was playing, I was thinking I can't really hear the guitar thru the soundport.  But then I did Rock this Town (Stray Cats) and i use some slapback delay. During the song, I couldn't hear the delay (which I always could before). I reasoned that I must be hearing the guitar thru the port and that's why I'm not hearing the delay. So it appears the port does act as a bit of a "monitor".

Edited September 26, 2021 by jricc

[jricc]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, PickitPaul said:

After having a look at pics on Gibson webpage on these I noticed the sound port is surrounded by black plastic / rubber?  Would have looked nicer left plain wood.  Looking inside i see that the kerfling is solid, not ribbed.   Wonder why this is?   How does it differ with side thickness from regular L00 or other models?

Neck profile is like a low oval shape or flatter than what i'm used to.

Oh well, i am old school.  Guess i'll be keeping my trusty WM45.

Hey Paul re: the sound port, yeah it's a hard black plastic. It extends maybe a 1/2" all round the hole inside.  It's very thin and appears to be glued on.  I'm thinking extra reinforcement for the port.  

Btw dig those WM45's

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, Dave F said:

Personally I prefer a neck be a little overset. It allows me to obtain the low action I like and keeps the strings above the soundboard and keeps the saddle at a decent height. The NL I have is slightly overset and I like it. 
As far as beginner guitars being the teacher, here’s the Kay my mom got me back in ‘64. 

 

 

The venerable Kay K1160.  These and the Harmony Stella defined "entry level".  If you were on a really tight budget you could snag the Old Kraftsman version of this model in the Spiegel catalog for around $10.

[MorrisrownSal]

13 hours ago, 62burst said:Glad to see Sal has jumped back on that horse to ride after a guitar-breaking gig from hell.

Thank 62. I will play my nice guitars at gentile places for evermore. Brooklyn gets broken guitars, and maybe  a cheap purchase especially. Toying with something as simple as Yamaha FG800 or so, or maybe one that has a pickup already. 
 

id actually love to have the excuse to but a a generation… but that would be triple what I’m looking to spend. I’d be really bummed if I bought one and it got tattooed.

[Sgt. Pepper]

The least expensive Gibson acoustic is the G-00.

It has Walnut back and sides with a Sitka Spruce top. The fretboard is Ebony. The neck is Utile (what ever that is). The nut and saddle are Tusq. It as has the Exclusive Gibson Players Port. The bridge is ebony and the bridge pins just say black (I guess plastic), and it comes with a Gig Bag and the price is $999.

The least expensive USA made Martin  acoustic is the 000-15M or the  D-15M.

It has Hog back and sides with a Hog top. The neck is Hog. The fretboard is Rosewood. The nut and saddle are bone. The bridge is Rosewood and has Ebony pins, and it comes with a Hard Shell Case and the price is 1299.

Both are great values and both have different things going on. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[Twang Gang]

On 9/25/2021 at 10:51 AM, AnneS said:

This is interesting. My dad brought home a new ‘64 LG-1 because my then-8 yo brother wanted to take lessons. I was 7, but I remember my dad’s excitement about getting a student guitar for him. My dad knew zero about guitars when he walked into the music store next to his office.  (Kramers, on Milwaukee Avenue in…Niles, IL. The details a kid remembers!)

 

Great story Ann.  I have owned a guitar with some crazing on it, but never saw one actually happen before my very eyes!  I have one correction though - that store on Milwaukee in Niles was "Karnes Music", not Kramers.  I know because I bought my first electric guitar there in 1965 (a Gibson 125 thinline cutaway) see my Avatar.  My family went there fairly often as my Mom and sister both played piano and they had a large sheet music selection there.  I never learned to read music for guitar, but did pick up a few song books there with the chords shown above the notes.  I grew up in Northbrook - where did you grow up?

[AnneS]

3 hours ago, Twang Gang said:

Great story Ann.  I have owned a guitar with some crazing on it, but never saw one actually happen before my very eyes!  I have one correction though - that store on Milwaukee in Niles was "Karnes Music", not Kramers.  I know because I bought my first electric guitar there in 1965 (a Gibson 125 thinline cutaway) see my Avatar.  My family went there fairly often as my Mom and sister both played piano and they had a large sheet music selection there.  I never learned to read music for guitar, but did pick up a few song books there with the chords shown above the notes.  I grew up in Northbrook - where did you grow up?

That’s right—of course it was Karnes! (The child inside stored it correctly, but the old lady fumbled the retrieval. 🤦🏻‍♀️)
 

 Lived in Rolling Meadows until I was 15, when my parents bought a campground an hour north of Madison, WI. With 4 kids in high school, they had a ready-made work crew. That was a shock to the system, but that li’l guitar was my lifesaver.

[Leonard McCoy]

I doubt whether the new entry series of Gibson acoustics needed a gimmick like a second soundhole to sell, but I guess it makes for an easily communicable PR spiel to retailers and individual buyers—or whether such a feature is not actually harmful to the reintroduction of the series. I certainly can't imagine any player specifically asking for a "player port" or complaining that he couldn't hear his Gibson acoustic when playing.

Sales figures will tell the end of the story, certainly, if the gag was successful. The only thing is, Gibson is so deeply trenched in traditional guitar building and made that its image that I have my doubts whether this wager be successful or that the player port become an actual feature that players desire and don't actively shun.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Leonard McCoy

[BoSoxBiker]

4 hours ago, Leonard McCoy said:

I doubt whether the new entry series of Gibson acoustics needed a gimmick like a second soundhole to sell, but I guess it makes for an easily communicable PR spiel to retailers and individual buyers—or whether such a feature is not actually harmful to the reintroduction of the series. I certainly can't imagine any player specifically asking for a "player port" or complaining that he couldn't hear his Gibson acoustic when playing.

Sales figures will tell the end of the story, certainly, if the gag was successful. The only thing is, Gibson is so deeply trenched in traditional guitar building and made that its image that I have my doubts whether this wager be successful or that the player port become an actual feature that players desire and don't actively shun.

Something in your post made me think of what I perceive as a lack of patience by Gibson with their new product lines. At least recent few years. Some marketing up front and then on to the next thing. For a company that thrives in the traditional, they don't let anything new become traditional. My take on it, anyhow.

[pohatu771]

I played a G-Songwriter today. It was a nice guitar.  I liked it much better than either of the (earlier) G-45 models. It was super light weight and sounded nice. The edge inlays are a little weird. I kept mistaking them for the frets when I was playing, but they look nice. This example had a very stripey fretboard and even back wood. I don't need it, but I would happily buy it.

I also played the G-200, but it had been damaged in shipping and that severely affected the sound. Ignoring the (severe, but mostly-invisible) damage, both of them were really well-made guitars. I don't think I found them to be any louder than my own J-45 or Texan, and probably quieter. They would probably be nice recording guitars.

Edited September 29, 2021 by pohatu771

[jt]

On 9/25/2021 at 10:51 AM, AnneS said:

This is interesting. My dad brought home a new ‘64 LG-1 because my then-8 yo brother wanted to take lessons. I was 7, but I remember my dad’s excitement about getting a student guitar for him. My dad knew zero about guitars when he walked into the music store next to his office.  (Kramers, on Milwaukee Avenue in…Niles, IL. The details a kid remembers!)

Somebody there most definitely touted it as a “student” guitar. 
 

I’ve told this story before, I think, but the February day he brought it home was the day we all learned about crazing. Apparently, he bought the thing on his lunch hour and stored it in the trunk of our car. So when came home at dinner time to impress us all, we gathered around as he opened the case. We oohed and aahed… and within minutes, we heard a quiet snapping and watched little spider-y lines run across the shiney, orange top. My dad’s face went white, and he was sure the guitar was shattered. A few days later, he told us he’d checked with the store and…learned that the damage was cosmetic only.  He relayed in great detail the physics behind what we saw and heard that first evening, and then, wiser and a bit subdued, he turned to his four kids and wife and pronounced “The moral of the story is, ‘Never leave a guitar in your trunk in winter.’”

Me, I fell in love with it at first sight, and during the 50+ years I played it, I sometimes referred to it as a teacher guitar, because I was the only student in that relationship.

A wonderful story. Thank you for sharing it with us.

I've come to love LGs. As I type this, a 1942 Banner LG-3 is winging its way to me to complete my Banner LG collection. I'll have and LG-1, LG-2, nd LG-3. Yes, I know that nobody else on the planet collects LGs. 🙂 My gain.

[ajay]

I'm making a cap for the Player Port out of 5/4 Teak. I just have to get it finish sanded into an airtight fit. The teak, unfinished, is almost exactly the same color as the Walnut. I may cut a coutour to fit the body's curve, but I think I'm going to send it to Nichols Inlay to have something  inlayed into the cap. I already have a Nichols Truss rod Cover with a Grateful Dead Steal Your Face inlayed into it. I think I'll have something Similar done with the cap, maybe a Dead skleton. Anyway, this G-45 is a good sounding guitar, and my other Gibson is an Advanced Jumbo. Just wanted to let You know that the Port can be neutralized with a little work. I'm putting an LR BAGGS M1A into the guitar, so I wanted to make sure that I could use the pickup without any weirdness from the Player Port. This guitar, although plain, is a very well fitted Gibson. I'm getting pretty old, sonI may cut back to just the G-45 within a few years, and i think it will be all I need. I'm very happy with the sound of this guitar.

[jricc]

23 hours ago, ajay said:

I'm making a cap for the Player Port out of 5/4 Teak. I just have to get it finish sanded into an airtight fit. The teak, unfinished, is almost exactly the same color as the Walnut. I may cut a coutour to fit the body's curve, but I think I'm going to send it to Nichols Inlay to have something  inlayed into the cap. I already have a Nichols Truss rod Cover with a Grateful Dead Steal Your Face inlayed into it. I think I'll have something Similar done with the cap, maybe a Dead skleton. Anyway, this G-45 is a good sounding guitar, and my other Gibson is an Advanced Jumbo. Just wanted to let You know that the Port can be neutralized with a little work. I'm putting an LR BAGGS M1A into the guitar, so I wanted to make sure that I could use the pickup without any weirdness from the Player Port. This guitar, although plain, is a very well fitted Gibson. I'm getting pretty old, sonI may cut back to just the G-45 within a few years, and i think it will be all I need. I'm very happy with the sound of this guitar.

Hey ajay, congrats on your G-45.  Would love to see your port cover!  I was trying to figure out what I could fashion as a cover for my G-00.  Not very good at woodmaking...

Edited October 11, 2021 by jricc

[ajay]

5 hours ago, jricc said:

Hey ajay, congrats on your G-45.  Would love to see your port cover!  I was trying to figure out what I could fashion as a cover for my G-00.  Not very good at woodmaking...

If You want, I can cut one for you. you will need a piece of sandpaper to make it fit perfectly, but I'll be glad to send You one like mine out of Teak. You will just have to sand it for a perfect fit. Sanding takes more time than cutting it, but I'll send You one that's very close to fitting.

[ajay]

9 minutes ago, ajay said:

If You want, I can cut one for you. you will need a piece of sandpaper to make it fit perfectly, but I'll be glad to send You one like mine out of Teak. You will just have to sand it for a perfect fit. Sanding takes more time than cutting it, but I'll send You one that's very close to fitting.

To make the pattern, I laid a piece of paper over the Player Port, and shone a flashlight through the front soundhole. Then I just traced the pattern by following the edge of the light shining on the paper. I'll make you one out of the Teak, because the color and even the grain match.