Need some help Gibson people. Just purchased a sj 200 acoustic. I’m trying to figure out if it’s authentic. The thing that really confuses me is the truss rod cover in head stock there is nothing under it nether adjustment screw is in the sound hole. Is t

[BoSoxBiker]

Paying a few hundred bucks for a knock off and enjoying it sounds like a fine ending.

[Sgt. Pepper]

17 hours ago, Rick enos said:

It has a truss rod but adjusted in sound hole. 

So it’s a Martin?

[Rick enos]

I’ll take guitar out in natural light and get some better photos. 

[Rick enos]

Ok took some measurements 

total length—42”

depth of body where neck attaches to body is 4”

depth of body at base 5”

lower body widest point 17 1/8 across  

upper body where neck attaches 12 1/4” across. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Rick enos

[zombywoof]

I am sorry but I draw a distinction between a knock off  and a counterfeit even if it be an extremely poorly done one.  But I do get the motivation to roll the dice in the hopes that there is a possibility it might in fact be the real deal.   

[RBSinTo]

I'm a little unclear on the concept here.

The seller admitted that the guitar was probably not a real Gibson, and so sold it for $300.00 and after making the purchase, while being happy with its sound quality, the buyer is trying to determine if it somehow, someway might just be real?

Wouldn't the time to engage in serious due diligence have been before the smoldering wad of cash in the pocket burst into flame????

RBSinTo

[slimt]

You got a good deal on a fake.    Good thing you didnt pay 3 grand.  
 

 

[QuestionMark]

I'd refer to it as a Frankenstein guitar, not necessarily a counterfeit or a knock-off.  A counterfeit would be where the seller claimed it was a Gibson, which didn't seem to happen.  Or, if someone took an Epiphone and tried to doctor it to pass it off as a Gibson.  A knock-off would be another brand imitating a Gibson.  This one appears to be a Frankenstein guitar as it appears to be assembled from different brand parts (ie. the neck is from a Gibson, the body is from ?).  That's my take on it.

QM aka "Jazzman" Jeff

Edited October 11, 2021 by QuestionMark

[Dave F]

13 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

I'd refer to it as a Frankenstein guitar, not necessarily a counterfeit or a knock-off.  A counterfeit would be where the seller claimed it was a Gibson, which didn't seem to happen.  Or, if someone took an Epiphone and tried to doctor it to pass it off as a Gibson.  A knock-off would be another brand imitating a Gibson.  This one appears to be a Frankenstein guitar as it appears to be assembled from different brand parts (ie. the neck is from a Gibson, the body is from ?).  That's my take on it.

QM aka "Jazzman" Jeff

Without the correct truss rod, I seriously doubt anything on it’s a Gibson. These overseas knockoffs can be bought for around $300-$500. If intercepted at customs, they will be confiscated and they may pursue prosecution. It was very honest of the seller but I would still consider this a counterfeit. 

[kidblast]

oh man!!!!!!!!!  

the correct word is counterfeit.   and that's for sure one....

 

[QuestionMark]

1 hour ago, kidblast said:

oh man!!!!!!!!!  

the correct word is counterfeit.   and that's for sure one....

 

Well they are all in that counterfeit realm, I was just splitting hairs.   What makes me think the neck might be a Gibson neck is the inlays, headstock shape, and even the point on the bottom of the neck look legit, although the point looks like it was broken and glued…speculating that the neck was removed from a prior guitar.  Or, when maybe an original Gibson body was removed from the neck.   Any speculation that the neck is a fake Gibson neck?   Usually fake Gibson necks have something off about them.   Rerouting it reversing the truss rod direction to fit a foreign body doesn’t necessarily qualify the neck as fake,  but rather a strange thang, if that’s what someone did to this Frankenstein instrument.  The body certainly is not a Gibson body.   Am curious if anyone or the original poster notices anything strange or off about the headstock shape or lettering or fret markers to quantify the Gibson neck as a fake other than a possible reversed truss rod, as we all seem to quantify that for sure the body is not a Gibson body.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

Edited October 11, 2021 by QuestionMark

[paul300]

The whole thread would have wasted less time of the precious experts here if it would have been clear from the beginning that your seller sold you transparently a fake guitar. Why the suspense?

i find it even weird to show off the fake guitar here in the forum. Counterfeit is obviously a big problem for Gibson, not very tasty to promote buying a nice sounding fake guitar here.

If this would be a watch forum the reactions wouldn’t be a bit as nice.

Sorry, just my opinion (as a newy here)

[Jinder]

It’s definitely not a genuine Gibson, but hey-it wasn’t exactly expensive, looks cool (most audience members would presume it was the real deal) and it sounds pleasing…reads like a winner to me. Enjoy it in good health 🙂

[kidblast]

4 hours ago, QuestionMark said:

Well they are all in that counterfeit realm, I was just splitting hairs.   What makes me think the neck might be a Gibson neck is the inlays, headstock shape, and even the point on the bottom of the neck look legit, although the point looks like it was broken and glued…speculating that the neck was removed from a prior guitar.  Or, when maybe an original Gibson body was removed from the neck.   Any speculation that the neck is a fake Gibson neck?   Usually fake Gibson necks have something off about them.   Rerouting it reversing the truss rod direction to fit a foreign body doesn’t necessarily qualify the neck as fake,  but rather a strange thang, if that’s what someone did to this Frankenstein instrument.  The body certainly is not a Gibson body.   Am curious if anyone or the original poster notices anything strange or off about the headstock shape or lettering or fret markers to quantify the Gibson neck as a fake other than a possible reversed truss rod, as we all seem to quantify that for sure the body is not a Gibson body.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

dunno,  I don't think there's a gibson neck ever with a truss rod port there.

Edited October 11, 2021 by kidblast

[QuestionMark]

35 minutes ago, kidblast said:

dunno,  I don't think there's a gibson neck ever with a truss rod port there.

The thing is, the photo of inside the body seems to show a truss rod adjustment part inside the body…but, that appears to be part of the body, and we know the body is fake.  It’s not clear if that adjustment piece in the body actually is functionally going up inside into the neck or just a non-functional remnant from the foreign body.  I wonder what it looks like looking under the truss rod cover on the headstock.  If it shows a normal truss rod adjustment nut from that angle.  I’m wondering if the adjustment from inside the guitars is just a non-functional remnant from a guitar body that had a truss rod adjustment from inside it because that neck does look potentially like a Gibson neck and the truss rod adjustment piece we’re looking at from inside the guitar’s body seems attached to a non-Gibson body and certainly not a Gibson body.  It would be interesting if the original poster took off the truss rod cover by the neck to show what it looks like there.  The neck may potentially still have an original Gibson truss rod still in it not even attached to the remnant body part shown in the photo for all we know.  Dunno.  All speculation.  

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

 

[rct]

5 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

... I wonder what it looks like looking under the truss rod cover on the headstock.  If it shows a normal truss rod adjustment nut from that angle...It would be interesting if the original poster took off the truss rod cover by the neck to show what it looks like there.  The neck may potentially still have an original Gibson truss rod still in it not even attached to the remnant body part shown in the photo for all we know.  Dunno.  All speculation.  

It's right in the thread, in bold large print, that there is nothing under the truss rod cover.  There is no mystery here at all.

rct

[Dave F]

OP stated that he removed the TR cover and nothing was there. Solid wood. 

[QuestionMark]

I missed that.  Well that’s plain weird, then.  And, a sign that the neck may not be an authentic Gibson neck for sure if it blank under the headstock truss rod cover.  The mystery guitar does then appear to likely be a counterfeit and not a Frankenstein guitar.  But, as Jinder and others said, it only cost $300 and the seller advised upfront it likely wasn’t authentic, and the original poster said it sounds good…so just enjoy playing it for what it is.  (And, should it ever be sold, again, clearly let potential buyers know it’s a counterfeit and not an authentic Gibson, so no one has a chance of possibly  getting duped.)
 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[RBSinTo]

1 hour ago, QuestionMark said:

I missed that.  Well that’s plain weird, then.  And, a sign that the neck may not be an authentic Gibson neck for sure if it blank under the headstock truss rod cover.  The mystery guitar does then appear to likely be a counterfeit and not a Frankenstein guitar.  But, as Jinder and others said, it only cost $300 and the seller advised upfront it likely wasn’t authentic, and the original poster said it sounds good…so just enjoy playing it for what it is.  (And, should it ever be sold, again, clearly let potential buyers know it’s a counterfeit and not an authentic Gibson, so no one has a chance of possibly  getting duped.)
 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

Does being a subsequent seller of known counterfeit goods absolve that seller of potential prosecution by the true manufacturer? I would guess not.

RBSinTo

[J45Mike]

20 hours ago, QuestionMark said:

I'd refer to it as a Frankenstein guitar, not necessarily a counterfeit or a knock-off.  A counterfeit would be where the seller claimed it was a Gibson, which didn't seem to happen.  Or, if someone took an Epiphone and tried to doctor it to pass it off as a Gibson.  A knock-off would be another brand imitating a Gibson.  This one appears to be a Frankenstein guitar as it appears to be assembled from different brand parts (ie. the neck is from a Gibson, the body is from ?).  That's my take on it.

QM aka "Jazzman" Jeff

This is 100% a counterfeit guitar… nothing about this guitar looks legitimate at all.. not even close. You are spewing nonsense, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. 
 

To the OP.. this is FAKE! The headstock shape is wrong, the logo is terrible, the tuners are wrong, NO TRUSS ROD nut under the cover, the binding’s and rosette is wrong, bridge material is wrong … This guitar could not pass for a Gibson to any one with actual knowledge of Gibson guitars.

You purchased a counterfeit, illegal guitar , that would be confiscated by authorities if found. 

[kidblast]

9 minutes ago, J45Mike said:

You purchased a counterfeit, illegal guitar , that would be confiscated by authorities if found. 

I wish it were so, but it doesn't seem to be reality,,  these counterfeits are off'd on Ebay all the time.   Most of them MUCH better in visuals than this one.

but, it appears that  not a one gets "confiscated"...  

 

[kidblast]

12 hours ago, QuestionMark said:

I missed that.  Well that’s plain weird, then.  And, a sign that the neck may not be an authentic Gibson neck for sure if it blank under the headstock truss rod cover.  The mystery guitar does then appear to likely be a counterfeit and not a Frankenstein guitar.  But, as Jinder and others said, it only cost $300 and the seller advised upfront it likely wasn’t authentic, and the original poster said it sounds good…so just enjoy playing it for what it is.  (And, should it ever be sold, again, clearly let potential buyers know it’s a counterfeit and not an authentic Gibson, so no one has a chance of possibly  getting duped.)
 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

if the authenticity is fully disclosed.  in this case, it was then really no harm, no foul..

the seller was up front, they buyer bought what he knew was not authentic. 

That he's now trying to figure out the origin? well that is on him.  It's clearly a fake, and a bad one at that.

If it plays like a 300 dollar guitar and sounds like a 300 dollar guitar,  then that's what it is. 

The name on the headstock at this point is entirely irrelevant. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by kidblast

[J45Mike]

24 minutes ago, kidblast said:

if the authenticity is fully disclosed.  in this case, it was then really no harm, no foul..

the seller was up front, they buyer bought what he knew was not authentic. 

That he's now trying to figure out the origin? well that is on him.  It's clearly a fake, and a bad one at that.

If it plays like a 300 dollar guitar and sounds like a 300 dollar guitar,  then that's what it is. 

The name on the headstock at this point is entirely irrelevant. 

No man, it is not “no harm no foul”… counterfeit guitars dilute the Gibson brand. Once a counterfeit guitar passes through US Custom’s and is on the market , the guitar could be potentially sold off as “real” down the line. If the guitar was caught at customs, it would have been seized 100% of the time because it is an illegal counterfeit. That’s the facts.  
 

Gibson spends a considerable amount of time and money to counteract this problem, as does other manufacturers of  luxury goods as well as the US Government to stop these Chinese counterfeiters from destroying the brand. Not only guitars, but other high end products such as Rolex watches, Armani Clothing .. Versace, Coach, Omega etc.etc… 
 

If the guitar was in the style of a Gibson , without the Gibson name on the headstock, then it would be “no harm no foul”

Edited October 12, 2021 by J45Mike

[J45Mike]

30 minutes ago, kidblast said:

I wish it were so, but it doesn't seem to be reality,,  these counterfeits are off'd on Ebay all the time.   Most of them MUCH better in visuals than this one.

but, it appears that  not a one gets "confiscated"...  

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.guitarworld.com/amp/news/85-counterfeit-guitars-seized
 

Does US Customs always catch these criminals… No.. but many do get seized. Unfortunately it is impossible to catch them all.

Willingly purchasing one of these , either from the source, or on the used market here.. is still wrong, illegal and immoral.

[kidblast]

Just now, J45Mike said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.guitarworld.com/amp/news/85-counterfeit-guitars-seized
 

Does US Customs always catch these criminals… No.. but many do get seized. Unfortunately it is impossible to catch them all.

Willingly purchasing one of these , either from the source, or on the used market here.. is still wrong, illegal and immoral.

I don't like the idea either, and  I wouldn't buy one.  The problem I have with this is when someone dupes someone into believing they bought the real deal when they didn't.

thing is you can order a Chibson and have it shipped right to your door in a Styrofoam shipping container.. 

no one is going to stop that purchase or delivery.   THAT is the reality of this.