SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Got a SG Gibson Standard 2019 with Grover tuners. Great tuners , nothing wrong with them , but was thinking of putting Vintage style tuners as SG Gibson '61 reissue came out with to solve neck dive in SG, not that's it a real issue, but playing the SG while sitting on lounge with no strap, man that's a lot of weight up in neck area and down she goes , and thought that's what contributes to SG neck dive. I read that Vintage style tuners are much lighter than Grover's tuners, but don't want to buy Vintage style tuners if it doesn't work . So has anybody changed them over................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, SG Sydney said: Got a SG Gibson Standard 2019 with Grover tuners. Great tuners , nothing wrong with them , but was thinking of putting Vintage style tuners as SG Gibson '61 reissue came out with to solve neck dive in SG, not that's it a real issue, but playing the SG while sitting on lounge with no strap, man that's a lot of weight up in neck area and down she goes , and thought that's what contributes to SG neck dive. I read that Vintage style tuners are much lighter than Grover's tuners, but don't want to buy Vintage style tuners if it doesn't work . So has anybody changed them over................ are you using a nylon style strap? I've 2 SGs, the neck dive can be pretty much mitigated with a brushed leather/suede strap like this Levy leather / suede strap: Guitar Strap - MS26-RST (levysleathers.com) It's all I use, no neck dive. I'd try that before swapping out the hardware. Edited October 20, 2021 by kidblast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 2 hours ago, SG Sydney said: Got a SG Gibson Standard 2019 with Grover tuners. Great tuners , nothing wrong with them , but was thinking of putting Vintage style tuners as SG Gibson '61 reissue came out with to solve neck dive in SG, not that's it a real issue, but playing the SG while sitting on lounge with no strap, man that's a lot of weight up in neck area and down she goes , and thought that's what contributes to SG neck dive. I read that Vintage style tuners are much lighter than Grover's tuners, but don't want to buy Vintage style tuners if it doesn't work . So has anybody changed them over................ If you don't take @kidblast's decision, then you will most likely have to take the Grovers out, fill the holes they leave behind, pilot some new holes for the vintage Kluson tuners, then install. How pretty you do the job is up to you and what you can live with - i.e. handling the filled holes. You probably would want to make sure the plugs for the holes the Grovers made are cut flush with the headstock plane and would be even nicer to finish over them. I wouldn't do the conversion unless I was ready for all of that. So if a strap saves you this effort, probably a good idea to try this first IMHO. It's the least invasive way to correct something that is bothering you. You also don't know for sure if the tuner swap will alleviate the neck dive... But in all fairness, those Grovers are a bit heavy as far as tuners go... Swapping the tuners might affect the dive factor. Perhaps take a mass measurement of your Grovers vs Kluson tuners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 It would be easy enough to remove the tuners just to see how much difference it makes to the neck dive. Then, if you could discover the weight of vintage ones you could simulate the effect by filling a bag of sugar/flour/powder and adding that back on. It might save the expense and inconvenience of a unneccesary mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, merciful-evans said: It would be easy enough to remove the tuners just to see how much difference it makes to the neck dive. Then, if you could discover the weight of vintage ones you could simulate the effect by filling a bag of sugar/flour/powder and adding that back on. It might save the expense and inconvenience of a unneccesary mod. pretty sure it wont make a difference. Both SGs have klusons, the Classic has the white "bean" heads, the Standard, green tulip heads. If I use a cheezy nylon strap these guitars move all over the place. but with a levy suede strap,, it grips the shoulder, and it does not move. I don't see how swapping out the tuners is going to change this. Edited October 20, 2021 by kidblast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Good idea about removing the tuners, I will try that..... Yeah I use a thick strap as well and get no neck- dive at all, only when sitting down and playing, but as I mentioned it's no big deal...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Good idea about removing the tuners, I will try that... .Yeah I use a thick strap as well and get no neck- dive at all, only when sitting down and playing . but as U mentioned it's no big deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 4 hours ago, NighthawkChris said: If you don't take @kidblast's decision, then you will most likely have to take the Grovers out, fill the holes they leave behind, pilot some new holes for the vintage Kluson tuners, then install. How pretty you do the job is up to you and what you can live with - i.e. handling the filled holes. You probably would want to make sure the plugs for the holes the Grovers made are cut flush with the headstock plane and would be even nicer to finish over them. I wouldn't do the conversion unless I was ready for all of that. So if a strap saves you this effort, probably a good idea to try this first IMHO. It's the least invasive way to correct something that is bothering you. You also don't know for sure if the tuner swap will alleviate the neck dive... But in all fairness, those Grovers are a bit heavy as far as tuners go... Swapping the tuners might affect the dive factor. Perhaps take a mass measurement of your Grovers vs Kluson tuners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Yeah kidblast came up with a good idea...... I'll try that for sure......as you mentioned about filling in the holes, yikes, don't want to do that, didn't think about that, thought they would alline the same way..... Yeah I use a thick strap and get no neck-dive at all.....only when sitting down and not wearing a strap.....but as i mentioned it's no big deal.....just tinkering around...... the Grover's seem heavy but don't have any problem at all with them ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Yeah kidblast came up with a good idea.... I'll try that for sure......as you mentioned about filling in the holes, yikes don't want to do that. thought they would alline the same way...... Yeah I use a thick strap and get no neck-dive at all.... only when sitting down and playing but as I mentioned it's no big deal..... just tinkering around...... the Grover's seem heavy but don't have any problem with them at all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 6 hours ago, kidblast said: are you using a nylon style strap? I've 2 SGs, the neck dive can be pretty much mitigated with a brushed leather/suede strap like this Levy leather / suede strap: Guitar Strap - MS26-RST (levysleathers.com) It's all I use, no neck dive. I'd try that before swapping out the hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Not using nylon straps, I know they don't work for neck-dive......i use a thick strap and get no neck-dive at all.... as I mentioned , i only get neck-dive when sitting down with no strap on....but it's no big deal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) @SG Sydney why don't you play with a strap sitting, Few grams in tuners won't help the dive Edited October 21, 2021 by Eracer_Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 10 hours ago, SG Sydney said: Got a SG Gibson Standard 2019 with Grover tuners. Great tuners , nothing wrong with them , but was thinking of putting Vintage style tuners as SG Gibson '61 reissue came out with to solve neck dive in SG, not that's it a real issue, but playing the SG while sitting on lounge with no strap, man that's a lot of weight up in neck area and down she goes , and thought that's what contributes to SG neck dive. I read that Vintage style tuners are much lighter than Grover's tuners, but don't want to buy Vintage style tuners if it doesn't work . So has anybody changed them over................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Eracer_Team said: @SG Sydney why don't you play with a strap sitting, Few teams in tuners won't help the dive I only put the strap on when standing up , a thick strap helps with neck dive, there is none.... sounds like changing tuners won't help, due to other comments as well...... anyway it's just a minor issue.....I'm thinking I should look at other end of guitar at the back where the pots and circuits are, in that plastic cover . If the cover was made of metal and had a heat shield inside were pots sit it should balance out the guitar..... something for me to experiment with..... I've heard some people put weights in that area but I won't be doing that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 tie some helium balloons to the headstock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, merciful-evans said: tie some helium balloons to the headstock Lol yeah instead of thinking how to hold parts down, let’s take a different angle here 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 SG’s are usually very light Guitars. Add a Maestro or Bigsby to counter the headstock weight.. It would solve your problem & be a great addition to your SG.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Larsongs said: SG’s are usually very light Guitars. Add a Maestro or Bigsby to counter the headstock weight.. It would solve your problem & be a great addition to your SG.. which gives you coolness just like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, kidblast said: which gives you coolness just like this. Exactly! Very nice! And with P90’s! 👍 Plus, you can use a Vibramate in case you don’t want to drill any holes, making it completely reversible… Edited October 21, 2021 by Larsongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Larsongs said: Exactly! Very nice! And with P90’s! 👍 Plus, you can use a Vibramate in case you don’t want to drill any holes, making it completely reversible… yes, exactly the vibramate is a brilliant little device. that's the B5/V5 kit. have a LP Standard with a similar setup with a B7/V7 they work great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, kidblast said: yes, exactly the vibramate is a brilliant little device. that's the B5/V5 kit. have a LP Standard with a similar setup with a B7/V7 they work great I have the B7 & Vibramate on my Gibson Memphis Blacktop ES Les Paul… It is brilliant! I just got another B7 & ordering a Vibramate for my ES335.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihcmac Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 The Rotomatcs use threaded bushings, the Vintage Kluson style are lighter but use pressed in bushings meaning a smaller post hole. A nice basic leather strap will help quite a bit, but a basic 4" wide leather bass strap will work wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 Yeah the strap I'm using now is 3 and a half inches wide and don't get no neck dive at all.....only when sitting down with no strap... minor issue...... changing tuners won't help from other comments so far.....all good , it's a SG Gibson .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Sydney Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 18 hours ago, merciful-evans said: tie some helium balloons to the headstock Sounds like you're had to many covid-19 shots..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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