deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Hey! I own a gibson es-125 that has gotten my interest because of it's style. I don't know if the finish on it is rare or anything but I think its something that definately needs attention. The es-125 I have was made in late '66 or early '67, it has a white pickgaurd, natural finish on the top, similar to an es-335 but it's like a lemon yellow color (not from age, purchased that way), one p-90 pickup, tone and volume knobs, no cut away, everything origional. It's also a full hollowbody. There are barely any scratches on the back, or top, no finish has been worn away. On the sides, it has a copperish orange finish. and on the back it's done in a dark stain, but you can see the woodgrain. The guitar is made entirely of maple, the fretboard is brazillian rosewood with dot marker inlays (pearloid), and it has different tuning keys than the origional es-125's, sort of a dark lime green color, and tulip shaped. The gibson logo on top of the guitar is actually a special metal plate that has "Gibson" embossed on it with one star on the left of "Gibson". It also has a white , one-ply piece up next to the nut that is similar to the pieces on the les pauls, no lettering, and I think the nut is made of bone. Very good condition, and I took it to a guy at a music store near where I live, he said it would be worth about $8,000.00. The last thing that is really peculiar about this guitar is the serial and model numbers. The serial number is 867010, burned into the back of the head opposite of the logo. The model number in 1956 was stamped inside the es-125's into the wood, but this one has no stamping. My brother also has an es-125 from 1956, it has the model stamped inside the bass f-hole, but no serial number. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with this one. Every es-125 I've ever seen has had the sunburst finish on it, like my brothers, but mine is a different finish. I was wondering if this is some kind of special es-125 or if the style is just very rare?
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deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 Since i couldn't get the pictures on here I set the body of my gibson as my avatar and ima see if i can go to photobucket so i can upload em.
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Well the metal plate on the headstock looks like it came off of a vintage gibson case. The tuners I'm pretty sure are not Gibson made, and I'm not real sure about the truss rod cover or the pickguard, but the rest of it looks like it could be genuine.
L5Larry Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Need to see pics, but by my reference books the serial number comes up 1967. Your description and the avatar pic seem to show a ES-125 without any letter suffix, such as TDC, etc. It's not a "T" (thinline), it's not a "D" (double pickup), and it's not a "C" (cutaway). Your description of the headstock logo being on a metal plate, and the pickguard shape in the avatar seem very Epiphone(ish) to me.
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 Well the metal plate on the headstock looks like it came off of a vintage gibson case. The tuners I'm pretty sure are not Gibson made' date=' and I'm not real sure about the truss rod cover or the pickguard, but the rest of it looks like it could be genuine. [/quote'] No, it didn't. The guitar came like that, everything on it is origional, even the tuners, you can ask my grandpa that bought it. I'm looking on the computer to see if i can find anything on the internet about a guitar that might be like mine.
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 Need to see pics' date=' but by my reference books the serial number comes up 1967. Your description and the avatar pic seem to show a ES-125 without any letter suffix, such as TDC, etc. It's not a "T" (thinline), it's not a "D" (double pickup), and it's not a "C" (cutaway). Your description of the headstock logo being on a metal plate, and the pickguard shape in the avatar seem very Epiphone(ish) to me. [/quote'] It is a gibson, and the pickgaurd is origional.
L5Larry Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I just looked at the pics. I agree that the badge on the headstock is the same as they used on cases at one time, I just checked my 1947 L-7 case, bingo. I would carefully remove that badge and see what is underneath it, I think you might find the word "Epiphone". I'm not aware of ANY Gibsons having a screw-on metal name plate like that. The cutout in the pickguard for the pickup looks very amateur, rough and crooked, which would tell me either it's not the original pickguard, or the pickup is not original equipment. I also agree the tuner covers look odd.
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 My grandpa owned this guitar before he sold it to a guy named Vick Wallace. He bought it back and gave it to me, so he might've had the pickgaurd taken off at one time, he might have done it, or he could have replaced the pickgaurd with a remake but i highly doubt it because my grandpa told me when i got it that it was origional. If i take of that label and there is nothing underneath it i will be happy, but if it is an epiphone ill crap myself.
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 It's not an epiphone, it's a gibson. I took the plate and unscrewed one of the screws, turned the plate of too the side to see if anything was under it and there was no label, scratch marks, or anything that might show a label was there before. The plate evidently has been there since the guitar was made because where the screw was the inside of the hole was black with age. So relieved its not an epi.
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Yeah I didn't really think it was an Epi, due to the "open book" headstock scroll. It does "look" like a genuine Gibson, But again I'll state with what I believe is 99.9% accuracy, that the metal plate came off a Gibson case, and the tuners are definitely not higher end tuners. Try sending Gibson Service a photo with the what you believe to be the serial number, and see what they have to say.
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 Yeah I didn't really think it was an Epi' date=' due to the "open book" headstock scroll.It does "look" like a genuine Gibson, But again I'll state with what I believe is 99.9% accuracy, that the metal plate came off a Gibson case, and the tuners are definitely not higher end tuners. Try sending Gibson Service a photo with the what you believe to be the serial number, and see what they have to say. [/quote'] I did, I contacted Gibson service and gave them the info and photo. I'm really interested to see how this turns out because I haven't seen a gibson like mine yet. And it is the serial number, there is no 'belief" about it. It's burned into the back of the head, you can see it on the photos, I even looked it up in the book that lists production dates and serial numbers.
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 Just another quick note, I own the origional case that came with it also, the thin, hardshell flimsey case.
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 You may very well be right. I'm certainly not trying to imply that you're not. However in my long history and dealings with Gibson products, I have never known them to use any sort of metal tag for branding on their guitars. On any of their models. I will be the first to admit that I don't know it all when it comes to their guitars. I do however know a great deal due to the passion I have for them. Not sure exactly what books you have checked, but if you check the info here: Gibson Serial History, the serial number you provide comes back to be in the range of numbers used in the year 1967. (toward the bottom of the page.) Also check here: The ES-125 was produced from 1941 to 1970. Yours if it was made in '67 would fall in that range. It does look exactly like a Gibson ES-125 from that era. I'm not trying to say it isn't a Gibson. It may very well be. I truly hope it is. I think it is. I just think it may be a modified Gibson. (at some time in it's history) Good luck, and keep us posted. -TLSG
Ignatius Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 You may very well be right. I'm certainly not trying to imply that you're not.However in my long history and dealings with Gibson products' date=' I have [i']never[/i] known them to use any sort of metal tag for branding on their guitars. On any of their models. I will be the first to admit that I don't know it all when it comes to their guitars. I do however know a great deal due to the passion I have for them. Not sure exactly what books you have checked, but if you check the info here: Gibson Serial History, the serial number you provide comes back to be in the range of numbers used in the year 1967. (toward the bottom of the page.) Also check here: The ES-125 was produced from 1941 to 1970. Yours if it was made in '67 would fall in that range. It does look exactly like a Gibson ES-125 from that era. I'm not trying to say it isn't a Gibson. It may very well be. I truly hope it is. I think it is. I just think it may be a modified Gibson. (at some time in it's history) Good luck, and keep us posted. -TLSG Hey TLSG-- Did the ES-125s ever come in a non-sunburst finish like that? I've only seen sunbursts and the one odd black one a few weeks back that we never could settle if it was a refinish. I have to admit I have a big warning buzzer going off that there is NO logo underneath the metal plate. As far as I know, the ES-125s always had a silk-screened logo on the headstock so there should be a logo underneath the metal plate. I also don't think those tuners could possibly be original. I think the 125s always had plastic kidney bean tuners in white, didn't they? I have a theory: I think the top of this guitar has been stripped and refinished. That would explain the natural top, as well as the lack of a logo on the headstock and the need to place a new Gibson logo up there. Also, it's hard to tell because the picture is so fuzzy, but I think there are signs of hole refills around the tuning machines, suggesting that they have been replaced, probably after the refinish job was done. Did Gibson ever use white truss rod covers? And the shininess of the tailpiece is a delight, but I doubt an original would look that good. I know mine is very flat, almost satin in terms of its sheen at this point. Here is a good starting place, Gibsones125, to explore verifying the ES-125 designation: measure the guitar along its widest part of the lower hips. That measurement should come up in the range of 16" to 16-1/4". That is a great place to start so we can rule out other designations. I also think it is an ES-125, but it has had some fairly extensive modification done to it--ironically, to make it look more like an Epiphone. And wouldn't this have been around the time that Gibson was acquiring Epiphone if it is a '67? Very interesting. Ignatius
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I would say you are correct on all points sir. I'm no expert by any means on Gibsons or on Epiphones. Did they (Epi) ever use the open book scroll on their headstocks? Also, he didn't say that his grandfather was the first and original owner. The modifications could have been made before his Grandfather acquired it. I do still think it's a Gibby though.
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 You may very well be right. I'm certainly not trying to imply that you're not.However in my long history and dealings with Gibson products' date=' I have [i']never[/i] known them to use any sort of metal tag for branding on their guitars. On any of their models. I will be the first to admit that I don't know it all when it comes to their guitars. I do however know a great deal due to the passion I have for them. Not sure exactly what books you have checked, but if you check the info here: Gibson Serial History, the serial number you provide comes back to be in the range of numbers used in the year 1967. (toward the bottom of the page.) Also check here: The ES-125 was produced from 1941 to 1970. Yours if it was made in '67 would fall in that range. It does look exactly like a Gibson ES-125 from that era. I'm not trying to say it isn't a Gibson. It may very well be. I truly hope it is. I think it is. I just think it may be a modified Gibson. (at some time in it's history) Good luck, and keep us posted. -TLSG Everything on the guitar is origional. I just called up my grandpa, the man who origionally bought it new. HE told me everything on the guitar is origional. Tuners and all. The tuners on it are origional, the holes are where the screws came out of the back of the guitar head. Pickup is origional too, knobs and all. Finish is origional, and the pickgaurd was cut because he took it off at one time and couldn't fit it back on. It has never been refinished and the reciever/trapeze tailpiece is origional too.
Ignatius Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I would say you are correct on all points sir. I'm no expert by any means on Gibsons or on Epiphones. Did they (Epi) ever use the open book scroll on their headstocks? Also' date=' he didn't say that his grandfather was the first and original owner. The modifications could have been made before his Grandfather acquired it. I do still think it's a Gibby though.[/quote'] And I'm no expert either although I have an ES-125 and have researched them fairly thoroughly because I like mine so much. (It's funny that they have been showing up around here lately because I have been falling in love with mine again over the last couple weeks.) Anyway, yeah, I think some of the transitional Gibson-made foreign Epiphones do have open-book scroll on the headstocks. But that is another story because to me, this looks a lot like an ES-125. I mean, the bad news there is that even in pristine condition, there is no way an ES-125 is worth $8000 so I am concerned about Gibsones125's technician who is looking at the guitar. With this much work, it would be worth much less than the going rate for a typical ES-125. That is sad because based on the pictures, I actually think the body looks great; I like the natural finish approach. The tuner need work; they don't appear to fit right, and one would need to hear it and play to see how well all the body restoration work was done, but it could be a great guitar. Mine is at the shop; I just dropped it off today, and all the tech guys said they were going to be playing it all night. They love the mojo, and Gibsones125's guitar, with a little love, could have a lot of mojo going. Ignatius
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 I would say you are correct on all points sir. I'm no expert by any means on Gibsons or on Epiphones. Did they (Epi) ever use the open book scroll on their headstocks? Also' date=' he didn't say that his grandfather was the first and original owner. The modifications could have been made before his Grandfather acquired it. I do still think it's a Gibby though. [/quote'] It is a gibson. And my grandfather did origionally own it. I called him up and asked him. It has NEVER been modified. If you want the mans phone # i'll give it to you. Im gonna take a picture of my brothers 56 es-125 next to this '67 and tell me what you think.
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Well alrighty then. I guess that settles that. Is there any other questions you have for the forum? -TLSG
deletedaccount Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 Gibson's, 1956,1967 Gibson's 1956,1967 # 2 If these pictures aren't proof that that is a gibson, well mater's and tater's then!
Ignatius Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Gibson's' date=' 1956,1967[/url'] Gibson's 1956,1967 # 2 If these pictures aren't proof that that is a gibson, well mater's and tater's then! Hey Gibsones125-- No one said it wasn't a Gibson. We were saying that it has been extensively modified. But interestingly enough, the changes have been made to make the Gibson look more like an Epiphone. Usually, modifications go the other way around. And if you don't see any difference between those two guitars in your pictures, then yeah, we probably aren't the people you should be consulting. The ES-125 full-depth body remained virtually unchanged from 1955 to the end of its production in 1970, and as far as I know, it was made in one color (sunburst) and always from its origin in the 1940s had a silk-screen logo like your brother's. If your grandfather's is different, I am willing to bet the farm that it was modified. This was a starter model student guitar; they did not make custom versions of this guitar. I happen to think it is a great guitar still, but you have to know that Gibson made these as a stripped-down model to sell to the low-end market. You won't find fancy upgrades on this guitar because it was meant to serve a different audience than that. And by the way, if I am correct, your brother's ES-125 also has a replaced pickguard and different tuning machines. These changes are very common in the ES-125 precisely because it was a student model guitar, and they had cheap pickguards and tuners. This is just further evidence that someone probably changed your grandfather's guitar before he bought it. That's all anyone is saying. These are not things to be upset about. My ES-125 has been changed a lot, too. Right now, it looks more like an ES-150. These sorts of changes hurt the value of the guitar on the collector's market, but that's fine because these guitars are not worth much on the collector's market. They are sort of like the old VW Bug; you buy 'em cheap and make 'em your own, and you know that down the road it won't matter because even the best ones are never worth more than $1500-2000, and that is on a good day. I bought my for $500--yes, hundred, not thousand. I don't think anyone meant to upset you. You posted asking questions. We offered our best answers based on the limited data you have given us. No one is accusing you or your grandfather of lying. Ignatius
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I stand corrected. After further research, it turns out that Epiphone DID in fact use an "open book" headstock scroll. It seems they also used that style of tuners. My Bad.
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