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2013 Gibson J45 Standard vs 2010 Gibson J45 True Vintage


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Hey fellas.

 

A few years ago I bought a J45 Standard from rbpicker on this forum. My buddy loved it and I ended up giving it to him. I am babysitting it for the next few months while he is in his new place in Naples, and I thought I would do a quick comparison with my J45 True Vintage. I did not fingerpick because two finger tips on my right hand are raw from a burn.

The differences between the two guitars are sitka vs Adirondack, X vs advanced bracing, and neck profile. The Standard's neck is notably slimmer and less full.

Anyways, I recorded this with my iPad dry... no reverb, no compression, no effects.

 

Edited by Salfromchatham
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I don't know, man. . . I could've jumped back n' forth from :20 on the Std, to  1:09  (the TV) all night long- what excellent strummers they both are. Listening through the monitors, the Standard had full-on mids. Nice. We know nothing about their strings, but the string height and the saddle height look roughly the same (?), but it took a few listens to hear what came across as a  more wet/sweet sound on the 2010 TV . 

Thanks for doing this- I know it's a pain to try to try to duplicate angles & levels for this sort of an a/b. "Hey, look- Sal's playing Gibsons." Well, if it's in the interest of science . . . 

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FYI, the Standard is sporting Martin PB lights.  That blue and white package. The TV looks to have Lifespan PB Lights…. It has the brass high B and E.

I have returned to playing Gibsons! I know I did a few tunes on a Taylor and a Martin.

 

Funny story. my buddy dropped off the guitar last Sunday night. Asked me to make sure the humidity is right. Monday morning I opened the guitar. The saddle was way low. The strings were old and corroded. You couldn’t play a chord in tune. And, get this… blood splatters all over the guitar top. I actually remember the October gig where he cut his hand. 

After removing strings, cleaning, polishing, oiling the fretboard, and sanding a new saddle blank (I needed this diversion for my own mental health), it was returning to ya prior glory.
 

It’s interesting to me when I listen to the above video, I find the Standard to be pleasing. But when you are the strummer, I can tell you the TV sounds  much more crisp, alive, with a wider frequency range than what comes across on the video. But hey in the end, the tape don’t lie I guess?

anyways I love my TV.

 

Edited by Salfromchatham
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28 minutes ago, Salfromchatham said:

 After removing strings, cleaning, polishing, oiling the fretboard, and sanding a new saddle blank (I needed this diversion for my own mental health), it was returning to ya prior glory.

 

Sal, I'm afraid I would have pitched a fit if you took it upon yourself to clean my guitar, no matter what shape it was in.  Call me psychotic but some folks are just particular about such things.

(......but I will admit you were right about getting a looper pedal........nice tool for learning.)

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1 hour ago, Buc McMaster said:

 I would have pitched a fit if you took it upon yourself to clean my guitar, no matter what shape it was in.  

Yes, the relationship between guitar and player can get personal, but blood n' spruce? ? As mentioned, it was originally Sal's guitar, and the "My buddy loved it and I ended up giving it to him." - part, and Sal can clarify, sounds like it's more of a "on permanent loan" bit of guitar charity.

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Well I don’t want a second 45… I did give it to him. And he is very appreciative. I also did tell him I did the work on it, and he was happy. I suppose I knew he would be in advance, because you know your friends. Don’t worry Buc… blue is safe! I won’t clean her…

 

by the way the blood part… I had the same issue with my right pinky in a gig. Didn’t realize it was bleeding and the next day  my D18’ s top looks like a modern art painting… 

Edited by Salfromchatham
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As the former caretaker of the standard, I’m glad Sal cleaned it up.  I missed that guitar the minute I returned home from the FedEx store when I shipped it.  It’s a dandy.  
I liked them both in the comparison…of course I like J 45 s in general.  I’m happy to say I have another one and it’s a honey too (although not as light as Sal’s).

rb

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I think it’s pretty much a toss up.  Both sound really sweet.  Sometimes I thought the standard sounded better and had a little more punch and then the True Vintage would have the edge.  For me, it would depend on which of the two was more playable.  I could live with either, or both.

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Think the Standard is a bit above on output, but the TV is the elegatier of the 2. More delicate and defined. Standards can lean slightly toward mushy when the steel dies down.                                            Btw. did someone exchange the Std. nut and tuners. Supposed to be black and chrome, aren't they. .  

3 hours ago, Sevendaymelee said:

You mentioned advanced vs standard bracing... what's the difference? I ask, because on Gibson's site it says my Southern Jumbo has traditional, scalloped braces, not advanced. What exactly does that mean? Forward shifted? 

Forward shifted means that the well known X under the hood is moved closer to the sound hole.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can feel it with your pointy-fingertip. Idea is to increase the top vibes by not 'locking' it so tightly.  Often seen/heard/felt on vintage guitars.

6 hours ago, Salfromchatham said:

 And, get this… blood splatters all over the guitar top. I actually remember the October gig where he cut his hand. 

After removing strings, cleaning, polishing, oiling the fretboard, and sanding a new saddle blank (I needed this diversion for my own mental health), it was returning to ya prior glory.
 

It’s interesting to me when I listen to the above video, I find the Standard to be pleasing. But when you are the strummer, I can tell you the TV sounds  much more crisp, alive, with a wider frequency range than what comes across on the video. But hey in the end, the tape don’t lie I guess?

anyways I love my TV.

 

O yeah, bloody tracks. Remember renting an old jazz-like guitar for a play-back tv-show many years ago. And splashing the bright glossy yellow-orange burst over with red passion already during the rehearsals without noticing. Hope I got that mess cleaned up before returning it to the shop - not sure though.

A new saddle for lucky receiver of the 45 - call him double lucky. He now owes you a double gin tonic. . 

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Nice comparison, Sal. Thanks.
I seem to be the one of a few preferring the TV. I think the TV is more responsive, reverberant. This is not caused by the different strings. There is also an older acoustic letter video on YT that shows the same difference. I listened on a quite nice Bose Lifestyle system, the iPad doesn’t reveal reality sufficiently.
Anyway, both sound like Gibson J-45s, both sound nice.

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1 hour ago, E-minor7 said:

Forward shifted means that the well known X under the hood is moved closer to the sound hole.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can feel it with your pointy-fingertip. Idea is to increase the top vibes by not 'locking' it so tightly.  Often seen/heard/felt on vintage guitars.

When Gibson says one guitar uses "traditional" bracing and "advanced" bracing, what's the difference? 

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Melee, I think Gibson means that one is X Braced and one is Advanced. In Martin-speak, rear shifted vs forward shifted. For example… the pre 2012 Martin D18 Standard was standard rear bracing, and the redesigned one since then is forward shifted.

here is a quick rundown TV vs Standard

 

 

BSVv0Ej.jpg

 

Edited by Salfromchatham
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Forward and rear shifted is Martin guitar parlance.   Do not quote me on this because I don't build them, I just play them but what is referred to as forward shifted bracing in a Gibson means it is an X brace with a wider angle.  So you get differently placed tone bars, I believe a longer bridge plate or whatever.  

Listening to the two guitars, my take is the J45TV has a fuller and deeper sound to it particularly the lows and lower mids.  The J45 Standard voice while giving up something on the low end and mids sounds punchier and quicker while I swear I hear more attack. 

I would ask though what is your take on how the two guitars responded?    

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1 hour ago, E-minor7 said:

Good Q - remember the back braces being heavier on my Std. Bird than on the TVs. Not sure about the top. Perhaps not.

Interesting. Would this result in a less lively sound under sub-optimal conditions such as strings wearing out, temperature dropping a few degrees, etc?

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The Harvest Moon bit showed less of a difference than the rest on Sal's video. Otherwise, I can hear that extra bit of brightness in the TV as well as the warm, lower  depth of the Standard. Both are obviously nice. I hope my baked top adi J-45 ends up settling down into something akin to them both. It's already done so to some extent. Faded Sunbeams seem to be helping.

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56 minutes ago, BoSoxBiker said:

I hope my baked top adi J-45 ends up settling down into something akin to them both. It's already done so to some extent. Faded Sunbeams seem to be helping.

I tried a 75th anniversary J45 with the baked top and was surprised by the quite "harsh" (no negative, I don't have the english vocabulary to be more precise) sound.

That's not what I've heard with the few baked top guitars I've heard (hummingbird vintage <3).

 

To the topic I hear the same guitars with same caracteristics, just one (the TV) being more "airy". Each its uses I Guess.

Edited by pimousso
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1 hour ago, BoSoxBiker said:

Interesting. Would this result in a less lively sound under sub-optimal conditions such as strings wearing out, temperature dropping a few degrees, etc?

☺️ Doubt it - and all in all doubt if any person could stand behind a general theory about this. Then again a capacity in Bozeman probably would dare trying. . 
 

Remember it's not much - and almost nothing compared with the difference down to the early 60s originals. They were standing rows of unboiled pasta beside the contemporary ones. 

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1 hour ago, Salfromchatham said:

Ok... I did a quick Round 2. This time I used a small external USB Shure MV5 mic. The TV is played first; the Standard is played second.

Well, that was interesting, and unexpected- stepping up to that nicer mic made it harder for me to hear the differences. . . they both sounded a good bit better. Recalling discussions of high end mics where reviewers were saying how one mic might color the sound more than another mic. And back to the iPhone's quite passable recording quality in the first a/b, it reminded me of when I did an a/b/c of 1940's J-45's- there were comments of how the 1945 maple sounded better, but with YouTube's rep for adding audio compression, maybe the bite of the maple J-45 just came through better, where from the driver's seat, the '46 SJ almost sounded too pretty, and had little of the legendary strong mid's that the J-45 is known for.

Thanks for doing that. It was a fun exercise for the ears.

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