NGD - LP Raven

[EJ41]

Just picked up a LP Special Tribute Raven after seeing Trogly's review, and wanted to share some pics and info. Guitar was brand new, sealed box. The list of issues was 10+, even the pic that came with it was terrible! The gray paint they used to gray out the fret markers ended up in various other places (back of neck, tuners, headstock), then whoever buffed it took a lot of the gray right off the fretboard, in some spots down to the white fret markers. The black paint on the guitar was so thin you could see bare brown wood underneath in a lot of spots. The frets were very scratched and the fret slots on side of neck were not all filled in. Dots of white paint from the LP logo made it onto the front of headstock. Tuners were a mess (scratched, scuffed, gray paint, and greasy fingerprints). Scratches and scuffs on side of neck and neck pocket. Neck pickup had a chewed up edge and the tape was higher than the top edge of the pickup (also installed as low as it could possibly go). Dirt and dusty fingerprints all over the guitar. Not a biggie, but the "baby pic" was washed out, borders on 2 sides, and a dirty rag prominently featured (what is the point in even including this nonsense?).GC and Gibson "customer service" was non-existent. All I got was a reply on how to authenticate the guitar, then a follow up on how to spend more money to send it to them for a "warranty evaluation". I got the sense they don't want to waste time on their "cheap" (their word, not mine) guitars.

[Big Bill]

Yikes, it looks like a used guitar! I would be sending it back for a refund. I'm sorry that you ended up with something like this!

[EJ41]

20 minutes ago, Big Bill said:

Yikes, it looks like a used guitar! I would be sending it back for a refund. I'm sorry that you ended up with something like this!

Thank you. If only Gibson or GC had responded with something like this I probably wouldn't be as bothered as I am. I also thought, at first, that GC sent me a used guitar, but it was sent from warehouse and the box was unopened/sealed. There were also no signs of play on it like pick scratches or shiny spots in the satin finish. Then, upon further review, it became obvious that all of the issues originated in the factory and somehow made it through their "QC". Frankly, I am left kind of stunned by the whole experience.

[Sgt. Pepper]

So is his was a brand spanking new guitar, and if so it is unacceptable. Is it a GC special run? If new send it back. Only A Gibson Is Crappily QA'ed Enough.

[EJ41]

5 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

So is his was a brand spanking new guitar, and if so it is unacceptable. Is it a GC special run? If new send it back. Only A Gibson Is Crappily QA'ed Enough.

Yes, it was a GC special run, made for Halloween 2021. I already sent it back- GC received the return last Friday and still haven't started the return inspection / acceptance.

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 minutes ago, EJ41 said:

Yes, it was a GC special run, made for Halloween 2021. I already sent it back- GC received the return last Friday and still haven't started the return inspection / acceptance.

Nice.  Good luck. Which GC's track record they are just going to sell it to someone else, and probably as a new guitar too.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[EJ41]

Just now, Sgt. Pepper said:

Nice. Hope the new new one is in better shape.

Thanks, but there won't be a new one. After this experience, I'm joining the list of people who are done with Gibson. As you said, it's "unacceptable", and I refuse to accept it.

[Rabs]

Yeah that is just terrible. A company with Gibsons experience should be able to do better than that...

And the fact is I know they can... I know theres a lot of ones with issues out there too but what I can tell you is when you find that right Gibson, there really is nothing else quite like it.  Of course its up to you how you deal with it but I think when people strike off a whole company due to a single bad shopping experience goes a bit far. If you want a Gibson as said, theres loads of good ones to be had and more options for guitars in general out there than ever these days.

But I would blame GC more..  From what I have heard they are just an awful shop..  Go to a place that cares what they sell.

[Sgt. Pepper]

6 minutes ago, Rabs said:

Yeah that is just terrible. A company with Gibsons experience should be able to do better than that...

And the fact is I know they can... I know theres a lot of ones with issues out there too but what I can tell you is when you find that right Gibson, there really is nothing else quite like it.  Of course its up to you how you deal with it but I think when people strike off a whole company due to a single bad shopping experience goes a bit far. If you want a Gibson as said, theres loads of good ones to be had and more options for guitars in general out there than ever these days.

But I would blame GC more..  From what I have heard they are just an awful shop..  Go to a place that cares what they sell.

Rabs, EJ41 stated the guitar was taken out of a sealed box. Now anyone can open a box and re-tape it, but if it was truly sealed at the factory, and never opened until he received it, then fault can be traced back to Gibson.

[Rabs]

2 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Rabs, EJ41 stated the guitar was taken out of a sealed box. Now anyone can open a box and re-tape it, but if it was truly sealed at the factory, and never opened until he received it, then fault can be traced back to Gibson.

Im not saying Gibson arent to blame but we dont know that for sure, of all the examples I have seen of Gibson issues this has to be one of the worst...  But GC shouldnt sell something like that as a new guitar.... A second or B stock or whatever yes...  

Edited March 10, 2022 by Rabs

[EJ41]

2 minutes ago, Rabs said:

Yeah that is just terrible. A company with Gibsons experience should be able to do better than that...

And the fact is I know they can... I know theres a lot of ones with issues out there too but what I can tell you is when you find that right Gibson, there really is nothing else quite like it.  Of course its up to you how you deal with it but I think when people strike off a whole company due to a single bad shopping experience goes a bit far. If you want a Gibson as said, theres loads of good ones to be had and more options for guitars in general out there than ever these days.

But I would blame GC more..  From what I have heard they are just an awful shop..  Go to a place that cares what they sell.

Thanks for your reply. I'm not writing off Gibson entirely, and if I was it wouldn't be from this one bad experience. It would be from this one bad experience combined with all of the other bad experiences I've heard about and have witnessed. I also have 2 other Gibson's and am not planning on running out to sell them or anything, I just don't intend to buy anymore. I got a Studio from Sweetwater last year and it's great, and I loved that they inspected it first, and they had multiple choices with pictures and weights so I could choose a lighter one (8.4 lbs) with a cool dark streaky fretboard. Unfortunately, this Raven guitar was a GC exclusive, or I would've gotten it elsewhere.

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 minute ago, Rabs said:

Im not saying Gibson arent to blame but we dont know that for sure, of all the examples I have seen of Gibson issues this has to be one of the worst...  But GC shouldnt sell something like that as a new guitar.... A second or B stock or whatever yes...  

If the guitar went to CG, and then he bought it online, and GC did not open it, and they were just the middle man, cause we all know you can't buy direct from Gibson, then only one place can be blamed. But yeah we don't know what happened form the factory to the time he opening a sealed box. A helpful and friendly GC employee may have wanted to take it for a spin, and did that and then put it back in the box and re-taped and out the door it went.

[Rabs]

I am also kind of surprised that Gibson customer service showed no interest...   A lot of the time on here we hear about how good they were..  Maybe its because its a GC exclusive, maybe there are terms in the contract when it comes to these special runs..  I donno..  I do agree that whats in the pics above is unacceptable...  

Gibson are just another mass manufacturer of goods..  Like you can get good and bad cars or whatever, so it is with guitars too and any mass produced product. 

JC made a big fuss about improving QC when he took over,  making a point of saying he will start with proper lighting so the workers can actually see the imperfections.. Seems like he probably did neither? 

[EJ41]

1 minute ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

If the guitar went to CG, and then he bought it online, and GC did not open it, and they were just the middle man, cause we all know you can't buy direct from Gibson, then only one place can be blamed. But yeah we don't know what happened form the factory to the time he opening a sealed box. A helpful and friendly GC employee may have wanted to take it for a spin, and did that and then put it back in the box and re-taped and out the door it went.

Thank you for all of the feedback, it's nice to know I wasn't totally over reacting to this guitar. I just wanted to chime in on this to say that as far as I can tell, only 1 or 2 problems out of 10+ could possibly be caused by someone playing it. Maybe the scratches all over the neck pocket and some of the other scuffs and fingerprints. Everything else is clearly a factory / QC issue. Like how do they miss splotches of grey paint all over the neck and tuners? Or that the paint didn't fully cover the body? Not really asking, just saying. This clearly should've never left the factory and ended up as my problem, and I thought it was so bad that it was worthy of sharing.

[Sgt. Pepper]

24 minutes ago, Rabs said:

I am also kind of surprised that Gibson customer service showed no interest...   A lot of the time on here we hear about how good they were..  Maybe its because its a GC exclusive, maybe there are terms in the contract when it comes to these special runs..  I donno..  I do agree that whats in the pics above is unacceptable...  

Gibson are just another mass manufacturer of goods..  Like you can get good and bad cars or whatever, so it is with guitars too and any mass produced product. 

JC made a big fuss about improving QC when he took over,  making a point of saying he will start with proper lighting so the workers can actually see the imperfections.. Seems like he probably did neither? 

JC is rich a businessman, and we're not. He was hired to get the stock holders their money back, that's it, and what he said, or vowed to do means nothing, like a politician. He is not building the guitars he is just the CEO, and figurehead of the company. We can blame him or praise him. You can love their product or hate it. When you get a well made guitar all is well, and when you get a stinker, all is not. End of story.

[EJ41]

4 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

JC is rich a businessman, and we're not. He was hired to get the stock holders their money back, that's it, and what he said, or vowed to do means nothing, like a politician. He is not building the guitars he is just the CEO, and figurehead of the company. We can blame him or praise him. You can love their product or hate it. When you get a well made guitar all is well, and when you get a stinker, all is not. End of story.

Yeah, agreed. What I don't understand is Gibson's customer service. Everyone (including them) knows that sometimes stuff happens. Sometimes terrible guitars like the one I got make it through QC and into a customers hands. In an effort to keep that customer, and not further damage their brand, reputation, and "legacy", why not have an exceptional customer service response to deal with the occasional exceptionally bad guitar? Again, just sayin'.

[rct]

Guitar Center bought those guitars off Gibson.  Period.  If Guitar Center did not open the guitars and inspect them for retail suitability it is on them.  If they did open them and passed that one off as retail suitable, it is still on them.  Guitar Center owned those guitars, NOT Gibson.  That's why Gibson customer service didn't skip lunch to help you out.  Your beef is with Guitar Center, in particular, the manager of the store that guitar came from, if you know who/where that is, and/or the manager of the local store if they got it in for you.  If just a vague internet order well, good luck with that.  I've only ever had or heard of reasonable response from GC when dealing with particular store managers when it is on them.  When buying from them online, always Always ALWAYS ship to store and go pick it up and open it there, especially a guitar.  If the local store knows you and your order they will more than likely unbox it and have it ready to inspect when you get there.  Otherwise you are caught in the loop of internet sales, a somewhat less responsive way to go.

rct

[EJ41]

49 minutes ago, rct said:

Guitar Center bought those guitars off Gibson.  Period.  If Guitar Center did not open the guitars and inspect them for retail suitability it is on them.  If they did open them and passed that one off as retail suitable, it is still on them.  Guitar Center owned those guitars, NOT Gibson.  That's why Gibson customer service didn't skip lunch to help you out.  Your beef is with Guitar Center, in particular, the manager of the store that guitar came from, if you know who/where that is, and/or the manager of the local store if they got it in for you.  If just a vague internet order well, good luck with that.  I've only ever had or heard of reasonable response from GC when dealing with particular store managers when it is on them.  When buying from them online, always Always ALWAYS ship to store and go pick it up and open it there, especially a guitar.  If the local store knows you and your order they will more than likely unbox it and have it ready to inspect when you get there.  Otherwise you are caught in the loop of internet sales, a somewhat less responsive way to go.

rct

So Gibson, who made this guitar and let it go through QC and out the door in unacceptable condition, has no responsibility?

[rct]

They do.  Their responsibility is to the owner of the guitar.  Your situation requires you to return it to Guitar Center and make them the owner of the guitar again.  I say it here, I say it all the time, I say it everywhere:  THAT IS ALL THEY UNDERSTAND.  Return it.  Don't buy another, or do buy another, but put it on them to do something with a return.  Neither end is happy when there is a return.  Make them both as unhappy as possible, but don't sit around waiting for the executive vice chancellor of Global QC to call, it isn't going to happen, there isn't any.  Beefing with the manufacturer over a retailer problem is, as has been pointed out before, driving your Ford to Detroit on the spare and waiting at the factory for the QC guys to look at your flat.

Your post says "picked up".  Does that mean at a local Guitar Center?

rct

[EJ41]

This was sent to me, not literally picked up in person, as the closest GC is about an hour away. I returned it a week ago, because yes, this should've never been my problem, and now it's their problem. But I don't think there is a black and white position on this, as you are taking. If I find a piece of wood in my candy bar, I'm not going to take it up with the cashier at the local convenience store for selling it to me without inspecting it first. But, your car example is also valid. There is a lot of grey area when dealing with retail middle men. It is especially foggy with guitars. I think Sweetwater probably has it right by inspecting stuff first, and even that has been proven to be far from foolproof.

[rct]

A piece of wood in a candy bar is liability and all that, so it doesn't count.

Guitar players and their guitars are the only retail I know that has a problem and immediately screams QUALITY CONTROL at the sky.  You pick up a cracked crock pot at BBB and you what?  Call Rival?  NO.  Back to BBB you go, maybe get another, maybe not.  All things retail that don't work right, come out of the box missing parts, all that stuff, it goes back to the retailer.  I have never understood this militant NEED to DEMAND that QC do something.  It's just another retail object.  Back it goes, let them worry about it, buy another one or don't, just like every other retail product you deal with.

I hope you can find another one of them, you seem to like it and want it, and I think you should be able to find one.

rct

[Rabs]

I think part of the problem here is that Gibson themselves put their guitars in such a high regard in their marketing nonsense you would think each guitar was sprinkled with magic unicorn sh*t and by owning one you become part of rock history as it will make you sound like "insert guitar player"  and they are pretty expensive.... So they put the expectations so high that when you do get a duff one it is pretty disappointing.  Some people wait their whole life to get a Gibson and getting one like the OP got would be very upsetting.

Of course then we get a lot of people come on here thinking that maybe Gibson might read this and do something about it..  And after more than a decade on here I can tell you they wont.... 

Maybe in an ideal world they should...  But they wont.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Rabs

[rct]

All true, Rabs, all true.  They won't.  Each individual buys how many?  Couple few?  I had a bunch in my life, never had to return one.  Gibson Retailers buy hundreds of them at a time.  Return enough Gibsons to enough retailers and you'll have some pissed off retailers making too many returns/warranty problems.   If the retailers aren't screening the stuff when it comes in well, that'll be on them, and that will lead to even more returns for Gibson.  That's all they'll understand.

rct

[Sgt. Pepper]

And when a guitar gets returned what happens to it? Does it go back to Nashville? We have had members here state that they bought “new” guitars from GC, and when the serial number was run, it was in fact a resold used/returned guitar. Pretty shady. Do any others do that without stating is was a demo/return/scratch and dent/used,ect? We hope they are honorable, and sell what they are advertising.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[EJ41]

1 minute ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

And when a guitar gets returned what happens to it? Does it go back to Nashville? We have had members here state that they bought “new” guitars from GC, and when the serial number was run, it was in fact a resold used/returned guitar. Pretty shady. Do any others do that without stating is was a demo/return/scratch/used, and dent/ect? We hope they are honorable, and sell what they are advertising.

I wish I had taken a pic of the serial number, but I didn't, because I was wondering if maybe this would go back to Nashville and then be fixed and modded up and end up in their mod shop. That's what I'd do with it if I were them, but obviously I do not think like Gibson does.