B-25 vs F-25

[egoidealmusic]

So I know that the nut on the F-25 is a full 2 inches and that it's a shorter neck, but are these otherwise the same?  The Reverb rabbit hole has sucked me in once again in my looking for something new and I'm curious.  How do they compare soundwise?

[jedzep]

With prices the way they are these days, I wouldn't invest 2K in these soul-less Gibson models, known for their uninspiring tone and volume.  Hate to blaspheme on this site, and all, but in that range a new-ish used Martin 0-18 or even a D-Junior would blow either of these out of the water. Those F-25 pick guards couldn't be uglier, on top of the dull tone reputation.  Maybe you can find a good modern used L00 for a couple hundred more.

My minty 60's B-25 cost me 900 bucks 12 years ago.  I dumped it shortly after not realizing until playing  how dull the tone was, and jumped up to an LG-2, still less than 2K then. 

Sellers are out there hyping name and vintage, but there are great sounding guitars out there in the 2.5K range that make those models sound like student models.

Edited April 4, 2022 by jedzep

[egoidealmusic]

Don't beat around the bush, Jed--let me know how you really feel! 🤣  Seriously, though, I very much appreciate that honest assessment, and that's defiitely a push back towards an LG-2!

[jedzep]

Good luck.  It's better to be impressed and amazed for a couple hundred more dollars.

[jedzep]

I could never figure out why the B-25 wasn't a better instrument.  It had the LG size and X-bracing, but maybe the top was too thick or the bracing too heavy, even perhaps the oversized pick guard held it down, but I owned two 60's era models that went back on the truck in short order. 

I have a 30's L00 and a '50 J50 so I'm spoiled rotten.

[egoidealmusic]

Well, everything is going to sounds weak compared to those two!  To your larger point, though, it's interesting that there do seem to be some who say that what Gibson is building now (aside from the QC issues that flair up) are some of the best that they've made in many decades.  I'm not experienced enough to say that myself, but every newer one I've played has sounded great.  

[jedzep]

That's good to know.  I'm an old geezer and live away from decent sized guitar showrooms, so I don't know anything about what Gibson is building these days, but others here on the forum that I know to be knowledgeable and experienced often say the same.  The ear wants what the ear wants.  Go with that for your money's worth.

[zombywoof]

My thought whenever I played an F25 was always the same.  While I appreciated the wide nut and flat classical style board, the neck carve was extremely shallow/flat leaving me with the feeling baby needed more back.

But the real structural difference between the F25 and B25 has nothing to do with neck length.  While the whole guitar is a bit smaller than the LG series, it is more about the placement of the bridge. If I recall properly (which is not always the case) with the F25 Gibson shifted only the bridge placing it further from the center of the X brace.   This will all result in a different sound.  But when it comes to sound I always think of the Supreme Court Justice who when ruling on a case stated that while he could not describe pornography he knew it when he saw it.  With me, substitute hearing for seeing.  

Edited April 4, 2022 by zombywoof

[tpbiii]

21 hours ago, jedzep said:

With prices the way they are these days, I wouldn't invest 2K in these soul-less Gibson models, known for their uninspiring tone and volume.  Hate to blaspheme on this site, and all, but in that range a new-ish used Martin 0-18 or even a D-Junior would blow either of these out of the water. Those F-25 pick guards couldn't be uglier, on top of the dull tone reputation.  Maybe you can find a good modern used L00 for a couple hundred more.

My minty 60's B-25 cost me 900 bucks 12 years ago.  I dumped it shortly after not realizing until playing  how dull the tone was, and jumped up to an LG-2, still less than 2K then. 

Sellers are out there hyping name and vintage, but there are great sounding guitars out there in the 2.5K range that make those models sound like student models.

Well that has not been my experience -- at least on the F-25.  The closest thing I have to a B-25 is a 46 LG-2 -- which is not close IME to the 60s stuff at all.  The 46 has much more power.  I do have an c. 64 F-25, which is one of the most surprising guitar I own.  In power and in-your-face tone, the closest thing I have is a 39 HG-00 conversion -- both will definitely peel paint.  Also I should say that there seems to have been some kind of (maybe) bracing change in about the middle of the F-25 run -- maybe 64-68?  The later ones seem quite different according to the people who own them -- mine is early.  That is about the same time the factory automation started -- maybe something to do with that..

The closet thing I have to a newish 0-18 is a 52 00-18.  It is indeed a strong guitar, but the F-25 has it beat in raw power.  BUT they are tonally worlds apart -- F-25 has sparse raw power and 00-18 has the characteristic full, warm Martin mid-range.   I have a show and tell comparison in the works between the 46 LG-2, 49 CF-100, and the 52 00-18.  Maybe I will throw the F-25 into the mix.

Best,

-Tom

Here is a slightly relevant video comparison of 60s Gibsons.  No LG-2/B-25

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by tpbiii

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, tpbiii said:

 The closest thing I have to a B-25 is a 46 LG-2 -- which is not close IME to the 60s stuff at all.  The 46 has much more power.  I do have an c. 64 F-25, which is one of the most surprising guitar I own.  In power and in-your-face tone, the closest thing I have is a 39 HG-00 conversion -- both will definitely peel paint. 

 

 

 

I have heard that comparison between the F25 and  HG00 made before.  While I have spent time with both models each time it was generally separated by a decade or more.  I just do not recall that much about either one.

 

[egoidealmusic]

Totally spinning off of my original question, does anyone have knowledge of the American Eagle LG-2?   I really like the thinner bridge on the older and newer LG-2s, but there's a number of these out there for a good bit less and if it's just aesthetics, well.  Just curious.

[Jinder]

I had an F25 for a while, a ‘66 as I recall…may have been a ‘68. Tonally it was GREAT, super dry and woody, loads of volume as Tom described, sustain for miles, probably due to the enormous neck and being a twelve fretter.

The neck was an issue for me long term though, as Zomby said it is VERY wide and shallow, and didn’t agree with my hands at all after a while. I have a degree of carpal tunnel syndrome, which used to be unbearable but has been brought under control as much as possible by way of diet, sobriety and choosing the right neck profiles, but the F25 fired off the CTS like nothing on earth. Such a shame as I enjoyed owning it!