white pins with an ebony sound?

[egoidealmusic]

Wondering about your thoughts on pins that might have the sound of ebony pins (a mellower sound) but that are white.  My new LG-2 has plastic pins which I want to replace and I like the sound of ebony but want to keep the white aesthetic look.  Don't want to make it sound brighter so definitley not Tusq. 🙂

[E-minor7]

1 minute ago, egoidealmusic said:

Wondering about your thoughts on pins that might have the sound of ebony pins (a mellower sound) but that are white.  My new LG-2 has plastic pins which I want to replace and I like the sound of ebony but want to keep the white aesthetic look.  Don't want to make it sound brighter so definitley not Tusq. 🙂

Well, , , the obvious answer is maple pins, , , or perhaps those of so called box-wood, whatever that is. They are both light coloured - not like bone though.

Second suggestion is German panzer paint.  

[zombywoof]

I do have to confess.   In 55+ years of playing I do not think I have devoted more than 20 seconds of thought to the bridge pins in my guitars.   There is nothing I have not used - bakelite, celluloid, ebony, brass, bone, and whatever.     I get the theory that the denser the material the more vibration is carried to the bridge plate and top.  But if ebony is "warmer" and bone "brighter" in all honesty I do not really hear a difference.   For me it is all about aesthetics.  Anyway, the only pins I have actually gone out of my way to buy have been Antique Acoustic hard plastic pins.  

[BluesKing777]

 

ZW above has hit on the name brand to try - Antique Acoustics bridge pins. They are recreations of the 30s bridge pin material and have black and an off white pin made from Galalith, very popular with the models for old Martins and Gibsons that need the same pin.

They also make pins for newer Gibsons, but it will take a search! Elderly maybe....

It would be easier to just go high density pone pins though......stuff is hard to find lately.

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[fortyearspickn]

None of my 3 dogs can tell the difference between pins.  And they can hear it when a squirrel farst in a tree  a mile away.   

Do this - buy 6 sets of identical strings and 6 sets of different pins.

Pull out the G string  and put all 6 of them on you favorite guitar -  with a different type pin material.  See if you can hear the difference.  

I've never done it.  My dogs told me not to bother.  

[QuestionMark]

I have used wooden bridge pins on  all of guitars since the 70s, on the premise that since the bridge and the top are made of wood, the material plugging the string holes on the bridge and top should  also be  made of wood.   Since some guitars when purchased have had either plastic or tusq pins in them before I replaced them, I’ve noticed the wooden pins produce a slightly mellower sound than either.   I’ve never put the original pins back in after replacing them with wooden pins…which says something in itself regarding my preference.
 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[Hall]

Try the boxwood pins.   I replaced tusq pins on my J-45 with boxwood pins hoping for a more mellow sound and I've been pleased.   As said, boxwood pins aren't white though; think maple color.   I got several sets at Sweetwater .  

[Murph]

Wouldn't ivory be the white ebony?

[Kwlsky]

1 hour ago, Murph said:

Wouldn't ivory be the white ebony?

Indeed. Fossilized walrus ivory to be exact. That may produce a brighter sound though.

[egoidealmusic]

Thanks, all.  I'm looking for the mellowing sound that ebony has, which is more important than the aesthetics to me.  The current pins are--I think--Tusq.  White, and you can see production lines (i.e. from a mould) on them.  Definitely harder than plastic, but I just can't be sure.  The nut and saddle were apparently originally Tusq and have been replaced with bone, so that's why I'm assuming Tusq (the Gibson page says nothing about them).  The maple pins just look too much like the color of the top, but I might try them as it's an inexpensive start before paying for Ivory or bone.

[fortyearspickn]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:14 AM, Murph said:

Wouldn't ivory be the white ebony?

I see what you did there. 

[Murph]

It's a fine line between genius and insanity.

 

[fortyearspickn]

In my case, it's an imaginary line.  Red.  Dotted....

[Dave F]

I like to tinker. This thread got me thinking about making some pins from different materials just for the experience. I made a lathe type program to run on my CNC router. The only round stock I had was some 1/4" dowel rod which is a little too small for the head but good enough to test cut. Here's the first test cut, adjusting size is easy. I have some rosewood and ebony i need to cutout some round stock then I'll try out a set. From my search, it looks like American Holly White (shown at the bottom) would look close to white pins. I may get a piece of it.

 

 

 

[egoidealmusic]

Hey, if you do let me know and I'll buy the first set!

[Hall]

13 hours ago, egoidealmusic said:

Hey, if you do let me know and I'll buy the first set!

Have you looked at those pins jt suggested from Elderly Music, re: Gibson antique

[Dave F]

34 minutes ago, Hall said:

Have you looked at those pins jt suggested from Elderly Music, re: Gibson antique

Nice looking and good reference info. I copied it in case anyone needs it.

https://www.elderly.com/products/antique-acoustics-replica-gibson-guitar-pin-set

non-slotted pins as used on L-1, L-2 & Nick Lucas (NL) model Gibson guitars from 1930-1932. Also used on 1930's Larson Brothers guitars. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 8.1 mm head diameter, 5.6 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper.

non-slotted pins as used on L-0 & L-1 model Gibson guitars from 1930-1932. Also used on 1930's Larson Brothers guitars. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 8.1 mm head diameter, 5.6 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

slotted pins as used on L & J model Gibson guitars from 1932-1938. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.89 mm head diameter, 5.74 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper.

slotted pins as used on L-00 & other L model Gibson guitars from 1932-1941. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.85 mm head diameter, 5.78 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

slotted pins as used on L & J model Gibson guitars from 1938-1941. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.85 mm head diameter, 5.74 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper.

slotted replica pins as used on LG-1, LG-2 & J-45 model Gibson guitars from 1942-1945, and some 1943 SJ models. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.75 mm head diameter, 5.8 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

slotted pins as used on LG-3, J-50 & SJ model Gibson guitars from 1942-1945. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.75 mm head diameter, 5.8 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

slotted pins as used on LG-0, LG-1, LG-2 & J-45 model Gibson guitars from 1946-1970's. Also used on 1930's Larson Brothers guitars. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.6 mm head diameter, 5.6 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

non-slotted pins as used on LG-0, LG-1, LG-2 & J-45 model Gibson guitars from 1946-1970's. Also used on 1930's Larson Brothers guitars. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.6 mm head diameter, 5.6 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

slotted pins as used on various model Gibson guitars from 1946-1970's. Also used on 1930's Larson Brothers guitars. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.6 mm head diameter, 5.6 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

non-slotted pins as used on various model Gibson guitars from 1946-1970's. Also used on 1930's Larson Brothers guitars. Set includes six bridge pins and one endpin. Bridge pins have a 7.6 mm head diameter, 5.6 mm cone diameter & 5 degree taper

[zombywoof]

The Antique Acoustic pins were developed by Willi Henkes of Henkes & Blazer Guitars.  He is an encyclopedia when it comes to knowledge of vintage Gibsons.  At one time Antique Acoustics offered tuners which also quickly became the standard for Gibson restoration.  Wish they would bring them back. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by zombywoof

[jt]

1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

The Antique Acoustic pins were developed by Willi Henkes of Henkes & Blazer Guitars.  He is an encyclopedia when it comes to knowledge of vintage Gibsons.  At one time Antique Acoustics offered tuners which also quickly became the standard for Gibson restoration.  Wish they would bring them back. 

Nobody knows more than Willi about vintage Gibsons, Martins, and Larsons. He's also a lovely fellow.

IMHO, Antique Acoustics are THE best bridge pins available: light and very hard. IMHO, again, weight is not your friend in bridge pins (read: bone or brass).

[egoidealmusic]

I have looked at those pins, but I'm guessing they'd produce a brighter sound than ebony pins, hence looking for "white" ebony pins! 🤣

[ALD323]

Keeping the aesthetic of the iconic white ball pins on a genuine Gibson is very important to me. I have tried, and liked ,the sound of ebony pins on my Gibsons, but no matter how hard I try, I can not overcome the idea that my Gibsons just do not look right without the iconic white ball pins found on most Gibsons acoustics. I have returned to the original plastic Gibson pins. In a few cases, and I also use Ivoroid white pins found in the Stewmac link below. These beautiful Ivoroid come in both slotted and unslotted versions, and have an Ivory look to them, and I do find them to be more mellow, deeper sounding, than the original plastic pins, but retain the Gibson look. Ivoroid is a very strong life long material, they are not quite as mellow as ebony, but are more mellow than plastic pins. And they are quite beautiful and fit the Gibson like a glove, in most cases they are drop in pins on a Gibson with no alterations needed to the pins or bridge holes. See the link below if you choose to order them, I got mine from this Stewmac link,  several sets, and every pin was perfect with no discolorations and uniform in size. ....I know exactly what you mean by wishing for white ebony. Unfortunately ebony is a solid black wood. You may well find you like the Ivoroid sound, and most likely will enjoy the simulated Ivory look they have.  and these pins will never need replacement, they are very hard, much harder than plastic pins, very durable and will last the life of your guitar, while retaining its iconic white ball Gibson aesthetic. Good luck. Waverly Ivoroid white ball pins at Stewmac can be found on the link below. Good luck

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/endpins-and-bridge-pins/waverly-ivoroid-bridge-pins/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=2022-05-gp&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1N2TBhCOARIsAGVHQc4kncxCdXf60lfCCNtHwMPuv6n-7y5S_Egg2YcSmzu451SMWJu2OJAaAnjcEALw_wcB

[Buckfish]

I recently installed a set of ebony pins and I’m not crazy about the color. I was thinking about just painting the top of the pins with model paint. The difference in tone is negligible to my old ears.

[Hall]

On 5/7/2022 at 4:58 PM, jt said:

Nobody knows more than Willi about vintage Gibsons, Martins, and Larsons. He's also a lovely fellow.

IMHO, Antique Acoustics are THE best bridge pins available: light and very hard. IMHO, again, weight is not your friend in bridge pins (read: bone or brass).

I had forgotten I have a set on my J-45 with a torrefied . top.  I tried them jt, after hearing your thoughts on them in the last pin discussion here.    When I got the guitar out for it's go round last week it all came back so I posted about them existing.   I really like the antique Gibson pins both looks and quality wise.  The are well made.  They did not make my bright J-45 any brighter and as I keep playing I am more impressed.  As you said, light and hard.  I have three unused sets that I am going to put to use now that I have given the antique Gibsons a fair chance.  

[Dave F]

I'm making a set of bridge pins out of White Holly Wood for the OP to test out. I just like to tinker around when I have time.

I just started today. I thought the wood would be whiter but it is whiter than Maple. My first mistake was trying to squeeze  too many (9) out of the block. If I don't yield 6 good ones I'll cut them a little larger. Cut a 1/4" diameter to hold on to then put it in the CNC router and turned the shape. Holding the top of the 5 degree taper at ,220" per 2A spec. I'll rig something up to slot them and cut them to length. The one picture shows a couple turned pins next to a couple plastic pins and a bone saddle blank setting on top of  a piece of maple.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:14 AM, Murph said:

Wouldn't ivory be the white ebony?

I though ivory was from an elephant tusk and ebony was from a species of tree, so not even close.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper